Origin(s) of sinful choices

[Leslie]

God turns our hearts toward Him and toward doing what is right. He does so by means of the Spirit, teaching us to distinguish the morally good from evil, making us inclined to choose the good. Is there a comparable/analogous manner in which Satan inclines humans (at least unbelievers, maybe believers also) to choose evil? In other words, are our sins merely a function of our innate depravity, or are they also a function of evil spiritual influences eminating from personal beings?

 

[Scott1]

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter VI
Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and the Punishment thereof

I. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit.[1] This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.[2]

II. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion, with God,[3] and so became dead in sin,[4] and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.[5]

III. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed;[6] and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.[7]

IV. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,[8] and wholly inclined to all evil,[9] do proceed all actual transgressions.[10]

V. This corruption of nature, during this life, does remain in those that are regenerated;[11] and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.[12]

VI. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto,[13] does in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner,[14] whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God,[15] and curse of the law,[16] and so made subject to death,[17] with all miseries spiritual,[18] temporal,[19] and eternal.[20]

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Scripture Proofs

[1] GEN 3:13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 2CO 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[2] ROM 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

[3] GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden. ECC 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. ROM 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

[4] GEN 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. EPH 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

[5] TIT 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. GEN 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? ROM 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

[6] GEN 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 2:16 AND THE LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ACT 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. ROM 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 1CO 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

[7] PSA 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. GEN 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth. JOB 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

[8] ROM 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. ROM 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. ROM 7:18 For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. COL 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

[9] GEN 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. ROM 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[10] JAM 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. EPH 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. MAT 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

[11] 1JO 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. ROM 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me(that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. JAM 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin? ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

[12]ROM 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. GAL 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

[13] 1JO 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[14] ROM 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. ROM 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin. 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[15] EPH 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[16] GAL 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

[17] ROM 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[18] EPH 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart.

[19] ROM 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. LAM 3:39 Wherefore doth a living man complain, a man for the punishment of his sins?

[20] MAT 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. 2TH 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

 

[earl40]

I asked the same question though how you phrased it is exellent. No one answered my same question because I think Chapter VI answers it. In other words, the "how" is answered from the fall. Satan influnences us by his direct work on Adam and Eve and ultimatly, though not directly, by our flesh which will not be eradicated till glory.

 

[moral necessity]

God turns our hearts toward Him and toward doing what is right. He does so by means of the Spirit, teaching us to distinguish the morally good from evil, making us inclined to choose the good. Is there a comparable/analogous manner in which Satan inclines humans (at least unbelievers, maybe believers also) to choose evil? In other words, are our sins merely a function of our innate depravity, or are they also a function of evil spiritual influences eminating from personal beings?

I don't think Satan has an ability to incline our hearts directly. He is not a god.
Our hearts are naturally inclined towards sin already, ever since the fall.
He is, however, able to present various temptations before us to arouse our inclinations and stir them up.
The severity of his influence can certainly amount to a hardening, and sometimes even a possession.
But, overall, I think God alone is able to bend or incline the heart, like channels of water.
His seasonal wanings certainly allow our indwelling sin to be readily felt, and leave it more vulnerable to temptation.

Blessings!

 

[Leslie]

I was thinking about Job. It seems clear that when the raiders came and killed all his sons and daughters, that there was more than innate depravity inspiring these raiders. Then there was the evil spirit from God that got into Saul.

My thinking on this was inspired by all the wanton killing going on by the ROPeace, with renewed persecution of Christians. It is even risky to use the M/I words spelled correctly in posts. I have a sense that there is more to this than just random expressions of depravity, kind of like the glimpse we get in Job about what lay behind his multiple disasters. Is there something sinister behind this sudden outpouring of supremicism? Was there with the rise of brownshirts of the 1930's in Germany and Hitler?

 

[earl40]

I don't think Satan has an ability to incline our hearts directly. He is not a god.

I agree.

He is, however, able to present various temptations before us to arouse our inclinations and stir them up.
The severity of his influence can certainly amount to a hardening, and sometimes even a possession.

So satan is able to somehow "present various temptations before us to arouse our inclinations" in an indirect way?

I would say our "inclinations" can be defined as our "heart".

 

[earl40]

I was thinking about Job. It seems clear that when the raiders came and killed all his sons and daughters, that there was more than innate depravity inspiring these raiders. Then there was the evil spirit from God that got into Saul.

The Lord withdrawing His restraining grace and allowing the evil of men to do what they want also can explain such.

 

[Free Christian]

I wonder at times how we, mankind, can be as we are. Some sin is learned and yet some seems to just be there. If some incredible way some babies were placed some where on their own and incredibly be able to grow to adult, yeah I know would never be possible, but say they did. Would they know no sin? All act nicely? How would they act, a mixture of both? With no outside influence from others or media to show the way. I believe sin would grow from their own hearts.
How much and to what degree who knows but what would be guaranteed is it would be enough to separate them from God.

 

[Scott1]

I was thinking about Job. It seems clear that when the raiders came and killed all his sons and daughters, that there was more than innate depravity inspiring these raiders. Then there was the evil spirit from God that got into Saul.

My thinking on this was inspired by all the wanton killing going on by the ROPeace, with renewed persecution of Christians. It is even risky to use the M/I words spelled correctly in posts. I have a sense that there is more to this than just random expressions of depravity, kind of like the glimpse we get in Job about what lay behind his multiple disasters. Is there something sinister behind this sudden outpouring of supremicism? Was there with the rise of brownshirts of the 1930's in Germany and Hitler?

.

Job 1

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

 

[lynnie]

When you read about terrible killings where the criminal claims that voices told him to kill, like mothers drowning their babies, and otherwise nice, hardworking men killing their families when a voice orders them to, I suspect it is probably demons, as opposed to a split personality and one inner person speaking to the other inner person.

Demons in the bible made people cry out and cut themselves. I tend to think the modern thing with "cutting" ( 20% of all teens they say) is demonic, like the prophets of Baal gashing themselves.

If you mean more ordinary and typical sins, I think we need to treat them as our sin nature. Galatians in the works of the flesh lists even sorcery as a work of the flesh. I would be slow to blame demons unless there are those voices coming at them, or frenzied self mutilating, or maybe gross perversions that could be an unclean spirit.

 

[Leslie]

I wonder if Ephesians 6 bears on this. It is kind of hard to interpret that as Paul struggling against his own innate sinfulness. It appears that his worldview included evil spirit beings that actually do things.

 

[a mere housewife]

The devil entered into Judas but he was no less morally culpable: his moral actions invited Satan's agenda. If we de-emphasise moral agency for magical views of the evil we are capable of, we are just playing games with evil.

 

[Free Christian]

Yes Heidi, no one will ever be able to say "the devil made me do it".

 

[earl40]

The devil entered into Judas but he was no less morally culpable: his moral actions invited Satan's agenda. If we de-emphasise moral agency for magical views of the evil we are capable of, we are just playing games with evil.

Calvin below speaks how Satan effects people and it is not by not magical means as you have correctly pointed out Heidi.

27. Satan entered into him. As it is certain that it was only at the instigation of Satan that Judas formed the design of committing so heinous a crime, why is it now said, for the first time, that Satan entered into him, who had already held the throne in his heart? But as they who are more fully confirmed in The faith which they formerly possessed are often said to believe, and thus an increase of their faith is called faith, so now that Judas is utterly given up to Satan, so as to be hurried on, by vehement impetuosity, to every extremity of evil, Satan is said to have entered into him. For as the saints make gradual progress, and in proportion to the new gifts by which they are continually enlarged, they are said to be filled with the Holy Spirit; so, in proportion as wicked men provoke the anger of God against themselves by their ingratitude, The Lord deprives them of his Spirit, of all light of reason, and, indeed, of all human feeling, and delivers them unreservedly to Satan. This is a dreadful vengeance of God, when men are given up to a reprobate mind, (Romans 1:28,) so that they scarcely differ at all from the brutes, and -- what is worse -- fall into horrid crimes from which the brutes themselves would shrink. We ought, therefore, to walk diligently in the fear of the Lord, lest, if we overpower his goodness by our wickedness, he at length give us up to the rage of, Satan.

 

[Leslie]

Against exactly what or whom was Paul wrestling, or was it an internal struggle in his own soul?

 

[Scott1]

Against exactly what or whom was Paul wrestling, or was it an internal struggle in his own soul?

Ephesians 4

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

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[earl40]

Against exactly what or whom was Paul wrestling, or was it an internal struggle in his own soul?

The effects of the fall which is the result of satan.

14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed

 

[py3ak]

Against exactly what or whom was Paul wrestling, or was it an internal struggle in his own soul?

Paul, like all Christians, was wrestling against the forces of darkness. The life of Christ furnishes an illustration of how that wrestling takes place. Paul wrestled as Christ did, when he said to his own disciple and dear friend, "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." The solicitation to spare oneself - to think that one is too elevated or too pure or too special to undergo the cross is a diabolic suggestion, even when it is prompted by natural affection or arises from loving believers. This should put us on our guard lest we give place to the devil, whether by hearing his solicitations from others, or whether by becoming ourselves his agents of deceit and offense.

 

[Marcus417]

The devil entered into Judas but he was no less morally culpable: his moral actions invited Satan's agenda. If we de-emphasise moral agency for magical views of the evil we are capable of, we are just playing games with evil.

Exactly The possession was a consequence of his sin and he was morally responsible for that consequence. A good parrellel is alcoholsim (or any addiction). even though there may be other contributing factors that speed up the process at its basic level addiction occurs from consistent immoral choices and the addiction is a consequence. To not hold Judas morally responsible would be akin to a judge accepting alcoholism as a reason to dismiss a DUI.