Orthodox Priest Beheaded

[Blueridge Believer]

Originally posted by Kevin
Draught Horse, and Blueridge.

Adam I have spent 10 years working in the political process. Part of that full-time & the rest 'part-time'. I am a 'veteran' of over 80 political campaigns in over 10 states. Most of that time as a consultant to the GOP but I also worked for the old USTP as executive director for a while back in the early 90's. I could introduce you to dozens of godly men (incl some reformed) that were elected in those years. I have stood on the sidewalk outside abortion mills for hundreds of hours to protest the evils of our day. I was part of a group that sut down adult bookstores & closed an abortion clinic in the early 90's. I worked to defeat anti-home schooling legislation in 2 states and 1 province. I have traveled across the US training hundreds (thousands?) of christians in how to be an effective part of the political process. I sit on the board of a province-wide home school group. I have taught the reformed faith to 100+ young people as a lay youth learder in the PCA & the ARP. I have preached scores of times as a lay 'exhorter' in reformed churches without regular supply.

Trust me when I say I think I have done a few "constructive' things over the years. I also have 4 children (18 mos to 12) and yes I have been to seminary. I am glad that you seem to feel a call to serve as a military chaplin. God bless you. Please do not assume that because someone else has a different call then you that yours is superior or 'the only way to go'.

God bless you my dear brother. I too was once a republican party activist. Has there ever come a time when you felt your wheels were "spinning in the sand"? I attempt to bind no mans concience here. I only state my own as to what I believe the scripture has taught me. I only wish to live in peace with those around me and proclaim the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is the only thing that will change anyone or any system. To put any hope in a political party in my view is vain.
When I came out of arminian dispensationalism I embraced the doctrines of grace and along with it amillenialism. It forever killed the disease of nationalism in me. I realized I truly am a pilgrim. I just try to live in light of Rom. 13 when dealing with those who are in power but not get involved in there schemes or scams.

 

[Kevin]

Yes, spinning wheels in the sand is a good way to put it.

I have found, in my expirience, that the higher the office the less 'good' that gets done. A single person just can't have enough influence on a gov, or US sen. Congressman possible, but you better be valuable to them. The typical 'ward-heeler' just doesn't bring enough to the table to really influence outcomes.

State house & senate however are an other kettle of fish. An effective activist can influence votes at that level, often with just a call. The problem is most christians only get involved when they have an 'issue'. That is just to late. You rep has to know you well enough to come off the floor to take your call in order for you to be able to sway him.

I agree with you that your theology plays a big part in IF you even get involved. I am post-mil & more or less a theonomist, so 'nuff said about that.

The 'best' politicians & activists in my expirience are reformed & post-mil or latin mass catholics. They both seem to have the kind of long range view needed to stay the course.

Dispensationalists & a-mils get wound up about single issues but seem to lack the sand to stay in. Worse are those (bapt & charismatics) who 'sell out' i.e. they just become part of the game.

I can certainly understand how people want to avoide the entire mess, but I believe that is a legitimate and needed field. What burns me more than anything is christians (esp reformed xns who aught to 'know' better) who tie themselves to a party & back every thing it does no matter haw evil just because they are are the 'good guys'. If we are unable to "speak the truth to power" or preach Gods whole word in whatever area we are in then we might as well stay home.

 

[Blueridge Believer]

Originally posted by Kevin
Yes, spinning wheels in the sand is a good way to put it.

I have found, in my expirience, that the higher the office the less 'good' that gets done. A single person just can't have enough influence on a gov, or US sen. Congressman possible, but you better be valuable to them. The typical 'ward-heeler' just doesn't bring enough to the table to really influence outcomes.

State house & senate however are an other kettle of fish. An effective activist can influence votes at that level, often with just a call. The problem is most christians only get involved when they have an 'issue'. That is just to late. You rep has to know you well enough to come off the floor to take your call in order for you to be able to sway him.

I agree with you that your theology plays a big part in IF you even get involved. I am post-mil & more or less a theonomist, so 'nuff said about that.

The 'best' politicians & activists in my expirience are reformed & post-mil or latin mass catholics. They both seem to have the kind of long range view needed to stay the course.

Dispensationalists & a-mils get wound up about single issues but seem to lack the sand to stay in. Worse are those (bapt & charismatics) who 'sell out' i.e. they just become part of the game.

I can certainly understand how people want to avoide the entire mess, but I believe that is a legitimate and needed field. What burns me more than anything is christians (esp reformed xns who aught to 'know' better) who tie themselves to a party & back every thing it does no matter haw evil just because they are are the 'good guys'. If we are unable to "speak the truth to power" or preach Gods whole word in whatever area we are in then we might as well stay home.

Again, God bless you brother and I hope you get some good done and don't lose your mind in the process. I hope you post-mill guys are right, but I just can't see it in the Gospels myself. Be careful my brother, be careful.

 

[BJClark]

Blade,

I'm confused. I dont want this taken the wrong way. But how is joining the military and fighting political wars for ungodly leaders agendas advancing the Kingdom?

Yes, the leaders of this nation are sinners and some of them are ungodly, but who raises up those leaders? Does not the Bible teach us it is God that raises up who He wants in office, be they ungodly or Godly, For HIS Purpose?

Does it matter if we think their agenda is ungodly, if God Himself has raised them up, through the political voting system or through a war? What happens with Christians when there are ungodly men in office? Do they pray more? Or do they just ignore whats going on? Does it build a persons faith or destroy it? I have found that when ungodly men are in office, Christians are on their knees praying more, asking God to show mercy on us as a Nation.

And as far as working within the political system, it's not the Government that is evil, it is the people who work within the government who have evil hearts, who are in need of a Savior. It is about being salt and light in the darkness to them and sharing Christ. The battlefield in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter is a battlefield for God and the souls of men and women who are there.

There are many Christians who are on those battlefields being placed in the path of others they would never meet any other way, who do not know Christ, and God alone knows what it will take to reach the hearts of those He is calling, so who are we to say this is not the way God chose to bring them into His family or to harden their hearts even more against Him?

Why feel sorry for the Christians who are suffering the backlash? It is building their faith, where they are able to proclaim the love of God even more. We should be praying God will give them strength to endure the battle, to fight the good fight in the worst of circumstances, when their lives are literally on the line for what THEY say they believe. Could we, who live in America do that, be willing to be on the frontlines if it meant our lives were on the line? Or would we run from the battlefield in order to stay alive in this world, that isn't even our home?

Are we not called to praise God even in our suffering?

Does not our suffering or their suffering bring us Closer to God?

How do define complaining and giving a biblical critique of the US Government or any government for that matter?

The problem is your not really critizing the government system as a whole, your critizing men who are NEED of a Savior, for sins that only Christ can convict them of to bring about a changed heart.

So to me it's not about if people are pro-government or not, we should be praying for Godly men to rise up and go to them, and Share Christ. To be that salt and light in their lives, men who will take a stand and talk to them one on one. Not sit back and critize their sinfulness, because it is only but by the Grace of God we do not struggle with those same sins, but we do still struggle with sin.

If the US government was kiling chrsitians would it then be ok to critisize the US government?

it's not the government that would be killing Christians, though the men and women in office may approve of it, it would be lost men and women who work within the government who would be killing Christians.

So if we have a problem, then maybe we should be on our knees praying God will raise Godly men and women into office to be that salt and light in the lives of others who serve.

Those who will take a stand against sin and not back down, those who when they are shown their or someone elses sin will address it before God and are willing to be held accountable themselves, and in the case of the other person, talk to them confront them, hold them accountable, not worrying about if they are pleasing men or their 'political party', because they understand it is God they fear and not what man can do to them.


2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of his calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

 

[BJClark]

Kevin,


Praise God for your calling.

May you continue to be the salt and light in the darkness of your mission field. May God give you the strength to endure the pressures of this world and stand strong in Him and bring others to stand along side you to make that light brighter.

 

[Kevin]

I think I disagree Bobbi. The "people working in govt" are our representatives i.e. our covenantal heads, at least in some sense.
So yes we do have a responsibility. Remember that God punished the PEOPLE when King David sinned by numbering the people.

As for you view that suffering is good so lets thank God that the Iraqi christians get to suffer for His name after all the people bombing them may be good christian people too. I think you might do well by reading on just war theory.

 

[CDM]

Archlute post is in italics


I thought that I left this sort of ranting behind when I left dispensational circles. Why not thank God for the good things that you have been blessed with as a citizen of this country, and pray towards the growth of the Gospel in it? Everytime somebody whines on this board about the wickedness of this country they are neither being thankful for where God in His providence has placed them, nor are they doing anything constructive with the situation.


Well, after this post it appears you haven't left behind (haha-pun) ranting when you left Dispensational circles after all.

I'm not sure, but you may or may not consider me a whiner after this response. Just in case though let me add:
1) I do thank God for the good things He has blessed me and my family with as a citizen of this country.
2) I pray for the growth of the gospel in it
3) If I am to call a spade a spade (i.e., America’s sins) this doesn't negate points 1 & 2.

So, I can be thankful, I can pray for my country and I CAN lament the wickedness of this country (what you unfortunately call whining) whether it offends ones military or nationalistic pride or not. Additionally, I consider exposing sin to be constructive.


Second, for all of the handy retorts that issue from Ephesians 6:12, nobody seems to recognize the broader inferences that can be drawn from the 10th chapter of Daniel, where we see that demonic forces are directly involved in the affairs of nations. While not claiming that the U.S. is exempt from these forces, I would hope that nobody would deny that the constitutions of the opposing armies are largely a Christian West against an Islamic East. Those Islamic forces are under the bondage of a false religion, demonic direction, and the slavery of sin. So part of the physical battle with them is also a spiritual battle. Making a simple division between the physical and the spiritual in a situation such as this is not as clean as some would prefer. Men are never neutral when it comes to the kingdom under which they function, and in as much as Christian soldiers are fighting Islamic terrorists there will be an overlap in this area. That is unless you think that the Lord takes no interest in the well being of His sons and daughters in battle.


Good point about Daniel and what should be opposition against a self-evidently demonic religion. I agree, the Lord does take interest in these matters. Now that you mention it I am of the opinion that the Lord never intended for us to send our daughters to fight in our wars. I’ll add, for me, it is a derilection of duty on the part of Men, Husbands, and Fathers to do so. A complete shame really.


And for all of the ill which this conflict may have brought upon Christians in other countries, nobody on these threads seems willing to recognize that there has been tremendous Christian influence brought into those same areas by Christian soldiers, chaplains, and relief orginizations. If you just take a moment to back off of your puritanboard use for 5 min. and utilize the search button on Google, you will see some of what I am talking about. The providence of God is a mysterious thing, and He is surely using the ills which you all have belabored to point out in order that there will be greater fruit born for the Gospel as those lands come into contact with true Christians and the Word.


I have most definitely noticed the many benefits that have come from this war, namely the many Christian missionaries that are attempting to infiltrate the region. However, this does not speak to the right or wrong of us being there to begin with. The ends do not justify the means if you will. As a side note, the degree of heat you start to employ here makes me think of the term “rant”. Sure, God can use ills to bring forth fruit – who here has denied this?


Which brings me to my final thought: there are many Christian men and women in our armed forces who are giving up much more than the average poster here in their daily task of waging these wars. Many do it with dignity, integrity, and a desire to serve with excellence unto their Lord. They are the salt and light unto the world where the Lord has placed them. How do you think they would evaluate their "brothers" on this board if they were to read some of the disparaging remarks that have been made here concerning the task to which they have been set? I am sure that not all of them would agree with everything that they are tasked with, nor with every policy that their government sets forth, but I do not think that they would find the tone here anymore glorifying to our Lord (who charges us with cheerful obedience to our governing authorities) than the sin they may see in our government.


I believe, on average, the American soldier, individually, represents all that is good about this country’s past and somewhat present in regard to self-sacrifice, courage, obedience, and loyalty. It is indeed, an honorable profession. That being said, please, let’s not start glorifying each and every person who serves in our military or who happens to be apart of this country’s recent military campaigns because of the thousands of bonus dollars and scholarships held out to them. I’m sure you’ll agree many if not most are there for their personal gain. Few and far between is the true soldier. For you to attempt to hold up one’s (often times) career choice to shame others that haven’t chosen this path is dishonorable. You said, “Which brings me to my final thought: there are many Christian men and women in our armed forces who are giving up much more than the average poster here in their daily task of waging these wars.” If I decided to “give up” my life in service to save the whales should I expect to use this as leverage against you for your lack of self-sacrifice? Am I now to be thought of as a moral superior to you? You’re assuming that the “average poster” here wants to or even agrees with “waging these wars”!

Let us stop being so critical of our nation, and spend a little more time in prayer for it, engaging in Gospel work in it, and in being as good a testimony to this nation as our Christian brothers in arms have been. Just because we love and long for the coming of the kingdom of our Lord does not necessitate that we loath as of worthless value the land into which, and the governing authorities under which, God has placed us.


Yes, good point, we all should spend more time in prayer for this country. Indeed we should be engaging in Gospel work for it, and right again we should strive to have a good testimony.

I'm beginning to think that the name of this board should be changed from the "puritanboard.com" to the "puritanwhine.com" (no, I did not say "puritan.com!"). Why don't you all prove me wrong, and move from incessant critiquing to a predominance of edifying/constructive speech? I mean this not only about national issues, but also regarding discussions of other denominations, debates (or lack thereof), and various other topics.

I’d like to know, has the sense of irony completely escaped you? You criticize and make fun of the PB and many here in the midst of your crying foul for them criticizing the country! Sweet irony indeed! Yes, you are right let us engage in “edifying/constructive speech” not like the speech you’ve employed here. I don’t mean to pile on and I’m only speaking for myself, but, with respect, I have proven you wrong brother. My speech has been and is predominantly edifying and constructive. View my 319 other posts if you must.

 

[BJClark]

Kevin,

I think I disagree Bobbi. The "people working in govt" are our representatives i.e. our covenantal heads, at least in some sense.

Which is why they need our prayers, and why we can't just sit back on our laurels and expect change, we need to be willing to take that stand ourselves to help bring about change.

Remember that God punished the PEOPLE when King David sinned by numbering the people.

Yes, which is why we as Christians should be praying.

As for you view that suffering is good so lets thank God that the Iraqi christians get to suffer for His name after all the people bombing them may be good christian people too. I think you might do well by reading on just war theory.

I have come to see suffering differently, as I have endured much suffering in my life that God has used for good to bring me closer to Him.

1Pe 2:19 For this [is] thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.

Phl 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

2Th 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Hbr 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1Pe 3:17 For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

1Pe 4:16 Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

It is not that I see their suffering as "good" but through their suffering I see their faith made stronger, to where I am encouraged in MY own faith, knowing that no matter what happens God is with them, knowing just as God is with them, giving them strength to endure, He is also with me in my own suffering, even though my suffering is not the same, but if it were, He would be there giving me the same strength to endure.

I find comfort and draw strength from their faith, my faith is encouraged, my resolve to serve God is made stronger, and I desire to have that same faith, even if it means that one day, if I am placed in the same situation, having to make a choice to die for Christ that I too would be found faithful.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am well aware the war in Iraq was not started because of this, however, it has in turn become that in Iraq, maybe not for some, but for the muslim insurgents it is ALL about faith, and that is why they won't give up.

But do we just sit back and allow Islam to win or do we stand and fight against it?

Just as with our own leaders, do we sit back and do nothing but complain, or do we either share the truth with them personally or pray God will lead other Christians to them to share His truth?

I don't believe sitting and doing nothing works, so we must do something be it pray or go ourselves. If not us as Christians, then who?

[Edited on 10-19-2006 by BJClark]

 

[Kevin]

Thanks Bobbi, I think I understand your point better now. Still not sure I agree...

 

[Bladestunner316]

I dont think that just because God ordained evil men to be in power we should just be idle and and except it and move on as though its nothing. I believe that God has ordained all things.

Bobbi you said,
Does it matter if we think their agenda is ungodly, if God Himself has raised them up, through the political voting system or through a war? What happens with Christians when there are ungodly men in office? Do they pray more? Or do they just ignore whats going on? Does it build a persons faith or destroy it? I have found that when ungodly men are in office, Christians are on their knees praying more, asking God to show mercy on us as a Nation.


Paul in Romans says this,
Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Your conclusion goes agaisnt what Paul states here. Are hope should be in Christ returning and getting rid of all sin. Not that we should be content in letting evil governments abound so that we are persecuted in order to increase our faith.

Bobbie,
Also the government is EVIL and the men who run are EVIL. The government and the men who run deny the Lordship and Kingship of Christ. Where is written in our government that all men must bow there knees to the King Jesus and kiss His hand? It does not. So how then should we as Christians in good conscience enter into a system that denies the Lordship and Kingship of Jesus Christ?

Thank your for clarifying your points.

In Christ,
Blade

 

[Archlute]

James and Kevin,

Thanks for sharing your backgrounds after my last post; quite interesting material and personal insights.


Chris,

I agree with you on several points, especially that of the moral shame, not to mention the tactical downgrade, of having women in our armed forces (or on the police force, or as security guards, etc.). Nor, having actually served, am I blind to some of the corruption that is found within our forces. That being said, the corruption and evils are certainly less than you will find in many foreign forces.

Yet, to correct a misperception that you seem to hold, I have never asserted that we “glorify each and every person” who serves. On the contrary, a “real soldier” does not seek to be glorified as an individual, I did not, nor did the men with whom I served.

Pardon my lack of sanctification at this point, however, if I say that I think that you display a pathetic, insular, and self-delusory attitude in regard to our country's servicemen. Your assertion that "many if not most are there for their personal gain" is an unfounded (and ill-founded, from the men I know) view that falsely questions the motives of many of those men. Your idea that many serve "because of the thousands of bonus dollars and scholarships held out to them" is the really "dishonorable" position to take. I have little patience with self-serving, ease-loving critics, such as yourself, when it comes to this issue, and I say that as a Christian who is by no means blind to the sin in our country. The next time that you’re feeling like a hero for gettin' the bad guys on H.A.L.O. why don't you stop and say a prayer for your fellow countrymen who are facing real danger in the real world.

Seeing that you’re training for the ministry, I would hope that you not pass on your poor attitude regarding this country to those under your care. You may run into more recent veterans within your charge that will not show nearly as much restraint in their evaluation of your views as I. God Bless.

Preemptory notice of apology: I hesitate to post the above, due to constraints of biblical wisdom, but certain fallacious comments really raised my ire, and I felt it necessary in respond with a rebuke.

 

[BJClark]

Bladestunner316

I dont think that just because God ordained evil men to be in power we should just be idle and and except it and move on as though its nothing. I believe that God has ordained all things.

Please show me where I said we should?

I'm curious though, what war are we fighting? Is not man required to take a stand for one side or the other even if it means defending it to their death?

But do we just sit back and allow Islam to win or do we stand and fight against it?

Just as with our own leaders, do we sit back and do nothing but complain, or do we either share the truth with them personally or pray God will lead other Christians to them to share His truth?

I don't believe sitting and doing nothing works, so we must do something be it pray or go ourselves. If not us as Christians, then who?

Your conclusion goes agaisnt what Paul states here. Are hope should be in Christ returning and getting rid of all sin. Not that we should be content in letting evil governments abound so that we are persecuted in order to increase our faith.

With all due respect, you came to the wrong conclusion of what I said, re-read my quotes above.

And again, show me where I said that. And with all due respect, even though our hope is in Christ's return doesn't mean we sit around and do nothing, we must continue to do God's work here on this earth.

Also the government is EVIL and the men who run are EVIL. The government and the men who run deny the Lordship and Kingship of Christ. Where is written in our government that all men must bow there knees to the King Jesus and kiss His hand? It does not. So how then should we as Christians in good conscience enter into a system that denies the Lordship and Kingship of Jesus Christ?

Again, the government in and of itself is not Evil, though there are many evil men and women who work in the government. If it means we run for office, then we run for office and be the light in THAT darkness, we certainly shouldn't run from the challenge of the fight.

We enter into it the same way we enter into ANY career that has Un-saved and Ungoldy people within it's bounds, our Battlefield for Christ is where ever Christ puts us in ths world, our neighborhoods, our jobs, the local grocery store, the local hair salon or barber shop--where ever there are LOST people, is God's Battle ground and we are called to fight the battle.

As Christians we can not stay holed up within the confines of Church buildings, Church functions, and Christian Schools, if we do that, we are only preaching and teaching to the proverbial Choir.

Christ has called us to be HIS Witnesses, His Soilders, His Arms, His Legs, His Mouth, His ears, His hands (ect), we will not win these battles sitting in church pews singing hymns, we must get out into the battlefield and help fight the fight Christ has called us to, to share the Gospel with a lost and dying world. Can you tell me who is called by and who isn't? If you do not know who God is calling and who He is not calling, then shouldn't we be out telling EVERYONE, not waiting on someone else to tell them? It could be God only desires you to plant the seed, and someone else reap the gain of seeing them come to Christ, but we still need to be about God's business while here on earth not just sitting around complaining about how bad things are, while waiting on His return.

Read Ephesians 6:10-20--God has given us our battle garmets, and we are to use them in the world, the Church is to teach us how to use these weapons, so that when we go out into the world, and prepared for the battle before us, so that we do not run away in fear and trembling.

It doesn't matter if the people in Government tell us to bow our knee to Christ, what matters is that WE have bowed our knee to Christ as individuals and have sworn allegence to Him. He is OUR KING, He is the one who gives us our marching orders in this world, and He tells us to GO!

Sure there are times we sit and wait on our next assignment, but we should still be busy in prayer, and making sure our battle garmets are in place and ready for the next battle, and even training the next generation for the battles God will be calling them to on His behalf.

There will also be times we are injured in battle, and suffer losses, and during those times, we are to encourage one another, lifting each other up. But all the while, others are still in battle that need our prayers, support and encouraging words.

Do you not understand, the battle though it is spiritual, is also being fought in the physical? The entire Bible is all about that, the spiritual battles that have been fought by God through men in the physical world and continue to be fought by God through men in the physical world. The battle has always been two fold, being fought in two realms, that co-exist together.

 

[Bladestunner316]

Bladestunner316



Quote:
I dont think that just because God ordained evil men to be in power we should just be idle and and except it and move on as though its nothing. I believe that God has ordained all things.

Please show me where I said we should?

Bobbi said,
Yes, the leaders of this nation are sinners and some of them are ungodly, but who raises up those leaders? Does not the Bible teach us it is God that raises up who He wants in office, be they ungodly or Godly, For HIS Purpose?

Does it matter if we think their agenda is ungodly, if God Himself has raised them up, through the political voting system or through a war?

Blade says,
You sure sound like it in your post. That if God raises them up why should we care whether there ungodly or not. You might want to clarify your post.

After reading the verses you posted I correct myslef on what I said earlier about suffering.

But I dont want to argue with you which this is leading to. I dont support this ungodly government. I believe this government and most of the men who run are evil. Not all fo the men are evil. There are plenty of Christians in the military and possibly in the poitical system too. But the government is anti-christian. It allows abortions, immorality, unjust wars, and promotes polytheism,universalism, and atheism.

The End,
Blade

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Hey friends,
I think this thread has gone so far off topic that we're better off just closing it down. If you want to pick this sort of thing up again, another topic in the appropriate forum, please.

Thanks for coming.
thread locked