I know he's an easy target and I try to restrain myself, but it was on the front page of CNN's website and I couldn't help but read: Can Joel Osteen help you pay your bills?
Some precious exerpts:
Some precious exerpts:
Osteen again...oy veh
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I talked to my dad a couple weeks ago, I asked him how things are at church and what they are learning..his response was 'he quit going to church and started watching Joel Osteen because he likes what he teaches better than what his preacher was preaching" I said "oh you like that it's all about 'feeling good' garbage?" And having your ears tickled??" He said 'it's better than repent or your going to hell' I said "huh?? you'd rather have your ears tickled than hear the truth???" I said, "Dad, I really hurt for you, that you'd rather be a follower of Joel than of Jesus--because Jesus doesn't say we will never have struggles--Joel might say that..but the Jesus of the Bible doesn't..maybe you should read it and see for yourself, I can give you a few verses if your interested."
needless to say he didn't want them..but I may take some time and e-mail them to him this week..
needless to say he didn't want them..but I may take some time and e-mail them to him this week..
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
Just a case of pigs wallowing in the mud or dogs returning to their vomit - that is to say, goats act like goats and sheep will follow their Shepherd. 
DeborahtheJudge
Puritan Board Freshman
I saw a bit of that on TV. I almost died of laughter when they quoted:
"If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "
My dad is coming to my view of things! He used to watch Osteen. Now he laughed at it too. Hopefully that will happen for your dad, too Bobbi. Remember, live as well as preach the Gospel.
"If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "
My dad is coming to my view of things! He used to watch Osteen. Now he laughed at it too. Hopefully that will happen for your dad, too Bobbi. Remember, live as well as preach the Gospel.
SolaSaint
Puritan Board Sophomore
I've found that there are many who will follow Osteen's gospel. I'm talking about church going people. He must seem sincere to many but to me he is about immature as I've ever seen. I truly think he's as lost as the ones he leads to his prosperity gospel. He is ignorant of the true gospel. I would assume he spends the majority of his study in eisegesis of scripture to make it fit his prosperity message instead of studying to understand the truth of the gospel.
Zenas
Snow Miser
Yeah, I'm just jealous. It's not the blatant heresy or anything like that. I just wish that I too went to or "led" a "church" in a multi-million dollar building.
The aide's criticism reveals their attitude. They're so focused on money that they can't consider any other variable. Money is what will fix their lives and provide what pleases them and money must be the reason everyone disagrees with them. They have no other answer to any question they are presented with.
Bad life? Answer: Money.
Bad marriage? Answer: Money.
Bad press? Answer: Money.
The aide's criticism reveals their attitude. They're so focused on money that they can't consider any other variable. Money is what will fix their lives and provide what pleases them and money must be the reason everyone disagrees with them. They have no other answer to any question they are presented with.
Bad life? Answer: Money.
Bad marriage? Answer: Money.
Bad press? Answer: Money.
HeIsMyRighteousness
Puritan Board Freshman
My first thought was how dare he use the phrase "it is finished" as a spring board for getting rid of debt. You know how precious it is to read that and know Christ has satisfied the wrath of God in my place. I no longer fear the wrath of God because He finished His atoning work for my soul! Maybe I am a bit to serious about it but as of late Christ has become so much more precious to me.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
you're kind for giving Osteen the benefit of the doubt. I don't even think he studies the scriptures.
Reformed Thomist
Puritan Board Sophomore
blhowes
Puritan Board Professor
Dao;
He's on right now, been on for about 20 minutes and he has yet to mention the name of Christ yet..He mentions God a lot, and how God will give you the last laugh..but nothing about Christ..
He has only mentioned one verse of Scripture..that was a Psalm...but he has yet to actually READ any of the Scriptures..mostly he's telling stories of ppl who have been put down and criticized and how they have been raised up in businesses and in the world--
Now this turned my ear.."In scripture it talks about Issac" is He reading it?? Nope..he's just telling it as a story about how God blessed Issac in front of his enemies..but no reading of the Word at all..edit to add..he didn't even mention the verses or book it can be located in..
Not once did he even OPEN the bible and read it..
And as far as mentioning Jesus..he did once at the very end of the program..to accept Jesus as your savior and say a little prayer...
He's on right now, been on for about 20 minutes and he has yet to mention the name of Christ yet..He mentions God a lot, and how God will give you the last laugh..but nothing about Christ..
He has only mentioned one verse of Scripture..that was a Psalm...but he has yet to actually READ any of the Scriptures..mostly he's telling stories of ppl who have been put down and criticized and how they have been raised up in businesses and in the world--
Now this turned my ear.."In scripture it talks about Issac" is He reading it?? Nope..he's just telling it as a story about how God blessed Issac in front of his enemies..but no reading of the Word at all..edit to add..he didn't even mention the verses or book it can be located in..
Not once did he even OPEN the bible and read it..
And as far as mentioning Jesus..he did once at the very end of the program..to accept Jesus as your savior and say a little prayer...
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He had to replace "I claim victory" with something (I omitted the blasphemous ending deliberately).
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I am sure they would say something along the lines of, "it is not about loving the money, it is about accepting God's blessing for you in your life." God wants you to have that Porsche. He wants you to live in a mansion. He wants you be worth millions.
Not so much the "loving money" part, but the "be content with what you have" part. That's where the real squirming would begin.
I am sure they would say something along the lines of, "it is not about loving the money, it is about accepting God's blessing for you in your life." God wants you to have that Porsche. He wants you to live in a mansion. He wants you be worth millions.
I personally met one faith movement pastor who said that Paul the Apostle had a lot of unbelief.
Well I'd probably get all indignant and tell him (or her
) that Paul didn't write the Letter to the Hebrews so Paul's unbelief has absolutely nothing to do with that text. 
Kidding, of course. And I actually do somewhat favor Pauline authorship btw.
But yeah, it's nuts what they will say in order to evade God's Word.
Scott1
Puritanboard Commissioner
There is so much confusion in this.
It is a twisted mix of truth and error, sense and nonsense. Ripe for pop culture presentation in our media focused generation.
It appeals to our fallen nature. Someone else is responsible for our debt, God is there to be told by us to remove it, because we know God's will is we not have to honor our debts. Our fallen nature demands instant gratification to get property by vow (loan), and instant relief from the toll of repaying it.
The frightening part is how easily we can rationalize our sin and believe these kinds of distortion, this kind of self centeredness. How professing Christians can ignore their duty to God and to their neighbor in quest for self, and rationalize that sin. Even make it sound spiritual.
A few thoughts,
Finished when you pay back what you presumed to received and vowed that you would repay. Not before, and not it you feel like it, or it is easy or convenient for you. It's about keeping your promise really to God, and to your neighbor, and not bearing false witness.
You may have thought the debt would allow you to accomplish your dreams, by borrowing for college or for starting a business, or buying a house.
That's not years ago. It still is a common misconception that somehow being poor makes one more spiritual. That's not a cause or not a cause, not now, not a few years ago, not in the days the Apostle Paul wrote of being content whether abounding or abasing.
It's Christ that makes one more spiritual, including willingness to suffer to do what is right in His sight (things like care in borrow, sacrifice in repaying, discipline in spending less than one makes, spending wisely, checking idolatry and presumption in one's spending.
No "buts" on the sacrifice part.
That needs to be part of your message, Mr. Osteen.
Christ suffered. He commands us to suffer to do right and be right, and to be willing to seek that before one's own comfort.
It is a twisted mix of truth and error, sense and nonsense. Ripe for pop culture presentation in our media focused generation.
It appeals to our fallen nature. Someone else is responsible for our debt, God is there to be told by us to remove it, because we know God's will is we not have to honor our debts. Our fallen nature demands instant gratification to get property by vow (loan), and instant relief from the toll of repaying it.
The frightening part is how easily we can rationalize our sin and believe these kinds of distortion, this kind of self centeredness. How professing Christians can ignore their duty to God and to their neighbor in quest for self, and rationalize that sin. Even make it sound spiritual.
A few thoughts,
Finished when you pay back what you presumed to received and vowed that you would repay. Not before, and not it you feel like it, or it is easy or convenient for you. It's about keeping your promise really to God, and to your neighbor, and not bearing false witness.
You may have thought the debt would allow you to accomplish your dreams, by borrowing for college or for starting a business, or buying a house.
That's not years ago. It still is a common misconception that somehow being poor makes one more spiritual. That's not a cause or not a cause, not now, not a few years ago, not in the days the Apostle Paul wrote of being content whether abounding or abasing.
It's Christ that makes one more spiritual, including willingness to suffer to do what is right in His sight (things like care in borrow, sacrifice in repaying, discipline in spending less than one makes, spending wisely, checking idolatry and presumption in one's spending.
No "buts" on the sacrifice part.
That needs to be part of your message, Mr. Osteen.
Christ suffered. He commands us to suffer to do right and be right, and to be willing to seek that before one's own comfort.
I have encountered this idea among a prosperity acquaintance as well. I mentioned the guy Paul said he left sick in some city (don't have the reference at the moment), and she said just because Paul didn't have enough faith right then, doesn't mean God's will is sickness!
Zenas
Snow Miser
Did he make sure to tell them to pick up their laminated ID card on the way out and provide their checking account information?
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I don't see why everyone's getting upset. He's simply pretending the debt doesn't exist and that it's ok to spend money without consequences -- the same thing the federal gov't has been doing for years!
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Let's all say "Joel Osteen , YOU ARE FINISHED!!!" ........did he go away yet?
---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
No, they just become dejected and suicidal because they "don't have enough faith".
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------
Swaggart's comment about Bakker?
---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
No, they just become dejected and suicidal because they "don't have enough faith".
---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------
Swaggart's comment about Bakker?
Hi Bobbi,
I can totally relate to you. Me and my wife sat down with my brother and his wife for about an hour and explained the dangers of that theology. It seemed like it went in one ear and out the other. I have to bite my tongue now everytime I hear him talking about Joel. I also know that it can only be a work of the Holy Spirit to change their position.
He is able.
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