Pastor Terry Jones and the burning of the Quran

[Bill The Baptist]

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on Pastor Terry Jones and his burning of a Quran which has resulted in violence and death in Afghanistan and other places. I personally feel that it is very disrespectful to burn anyone's holy book, regardless of our own opinion of that book or the religion that espouses it. That being said, I also think that it is ironic that these islamic extremists are basically confirming everything that Pastor Jones says about them by their barbaric response. Just wanted to get your opinion.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Burning the Koran is no different than burning a phonebook. Just because idolatrous God-haters attach significance to it doesn't embody the book with any importance or worth.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Burning the Koran is no different than burning a phonebook. Just because idolatrous God-haters attach significance to it doesn't embody the book with any importance or worth.

When would something like this have a positive outcome? How does burning the Koran preach the Gospel to Muslims? It doesn't challenge their thinking it only fuels their hatred towards us.

 

[MMasztal]

When would something like this have a positive outcome? How does burning the Koran preach the Gospel to Muslims? It doesn't challenge their thinking it only fuels their hatred towards us.

The mere existence of the West and Christianity is all the fuel they need for their hatred. The response to the burning of the Koran simply exposes their intolerance and ultimate agenda despite the horse-hockey we hear from our politicians who speak of Islam as a "religion of peace". The peaceful Muslims are really the heretics of that religion.

That being said, I wouldn't have burned the Koran.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

The mere existence of the West and Christianity is all the fuel they need for their hatred. The response to the burning of the Koran simply exposes their intolerance and ultimate agenda despite the horse-hockey we hear from our politicians who speak of Islam as a "religion of peace".

It's true that the existence of the West and Christianity fuels their hatred as well. However, knowing that Muslims are unregenerate should be evidence to us that they are not peaceful. Anybody that is unregenerate wouldn't be peaceful as they are not born of God. I saw a news broadcast of one group in the middle east outraged. We shouldn't always believe everything the media feeds. The Media also has their own agenda(s) in mind.

----------------------------------- EDIT

Now is Jerry responsible for the deaths in the United Nations building. Of course not. The Muslims ran into the building and made the decision to kill. Although they are brainwashed it still doesn't remove them being accountable.

 

[TimV]

When it comes to burning holy books, Muslims in general have better ethical standards than modern American Christians. Bibles are burnt routinely by the US military and American Christians think it's cute, but the last time Bible burning by Muslims made the news (a year ago?) in Africa it was highly criticised by Muslims.

Would I do it? I have to live here on earth. I detest what many liberal Jews like my State's two Senators stand for, but I've got lots of liberal Jewish customers, so I tend not to lecture on liberal Jewish politicians in front of them. I think homosexuality should be criminalised, but I've got lots of gay customers and I tend not to talk about bringing about the death penalty again in front of them.

Am I cowardly? I don't think so. If burning the Koran or Book of Mormon or would further the Kingdom I like to think I'd do it. But I'll need a better reason than some ignorant fundy baptist opinion that doing so somehow makes me and those around me more spiritual. Or, "look how brave I am! I just told some lady with an Obama bumper sticker she's an idiot and lost my bid! She hired someone else because I offended her! Aren't I spiritual and brave!"

It would be like bragging about getting a voluntary lobotomy.

 

[discipulo]

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but I just wanted to get some thoughts on Pastor Terry Jones and his burning of a Quran which has resulted in violence and death in Afghanistan and other places. I personally feel that it is very disrespectful to burn anyone's holy book, regardless of our own opinion of that book or the religion that espouses it. That being said, I also think that it is ironic that these islamic extremists are basically confirming everything that Pastor Jones says about them by their barbaric response. Just wanted to get your opinion.

Burning the Koran is no different than burning a phonebook. Just because idolatrous God-haters attach significance to it doesn't embody the book with any importance or worth.

I beg to differ with Rev. Gleason.

The Quran is not meaningless as a phonebook, it is actually demonic, it is a false demonic revelation, and it is worshiped by millions as the true and final revelation to mankind from the Creator of the Universe.

well, the Lord, the true Creator of the Universe, says in His Word:

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8

Allegedly, Muhammad met the angel Gabriel, but we know that it was the old serpent, the devil, who lies from the beginning, and keeps questioning till today on the ears of men:

Has God indeed said (…)? Genesis 3:1

Islam doesn’t dare to say that the Bible, God’s True Special Revelation, is false, you won’t find them saying this at all.

They just say Muhammad was the final and better prophet, although he parrots, distorts and adds to the Holy Scripture, finally replacing it with a new, false, demonic revelation, the Quran.

The Quran is so dear and holy to Islam, that the the unfaithful (all those who are not Muslims) cannot even touch its Arab version when standing in a Mosque !

Having said this, I believe it’s foolish to burn the Quran in public, it will only promote hate and misunderstanding.
It may make the lives and ministries of Christian missionaries in the Middle East harder, more dangerous and riskier.
Missionaries are taking time and effort to explain Muslims the Gospel, even showing them how much in the Quran comes in a distorted way from both the OT and the NT.
Suddenly this kind of attitude will radicalize things, will portrait Christians as insensitive and disrespectful.

In a spiritual warfare burning the Quran is the kind of thing that makes the devil laugh, while Prayer and Gospel and Law preaching and teaching, that is what will really make him tremble.

We fight lies with Truth not with sensationalist attitudes.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5

 

[TimV]

Anybody that is unregenerate wouldn't be peaceful as they are not born of God.

Robert you don't have to go to the modern radical Two Kingdom's theology to see that you're over stating your case. The Confessions all speak about natural law, and even in the New Testament it's taken for granted that God has set up SOME system for even pagan rulers to suppress evil, in the normal course of affairs. There are always exceptions of course. But we have a New Testament account of a pagan civil leader punishing pagans who falsely accused Christians.

The fact that there are 20,000,000 million Christians in the middle east shows that this natural law, or common grace is a real force. God uses wicked, unregenerate men to enforce peace, and He has from the start.

 

[Tripel]

Historically, haven't books been burned out of a fear for its content? And if so, what does it accomplish to burn a Quran? Christians should have nothing to fear about that book.

 

[Grillsy]

Bibles are burnt routinely by the US military

Would you care to elaborate?

That is an honest question.

 

[TimV]

"I can now confirm that the Bibles shown on Al Jazeera's clip were, in fact, collected by the chaplains and later destroyed. They were never distributed," spokeswoman Major Jennifer Willis said at Bagram air base, north of Kabul.

U.S. military says Afghan bibles have been destroyed | Reuters

 

[discipulo]

Anybody that is unregenerate wouldn't be peaceful as they are not born of God.

Robert you don't have to go to the modern radical Two Kingdom's theology to see that you're over stating your case. The Confessions all speak about natural law, and even in the New Testament it's taken for granted that God has set up SOME system for even pagan rulers to suppress evil, in the normal course of affairs. There are always exceptions of course. But we have a New Testament account of a pagan civil leader punishing pagans who falsely accused Christians.

The fact that there are 20,000,000 million Christians in the middle east shows that this natural law, or common grace is a real force. God uses wicked, unregenerate men to enforce peace, and He has from the start.

Very Good point Tim.

In fact in His Sovereignty God may use the Quran to produce some fear of hell that will lead, by God’s Grace alone, men to the Savior.

(God can even make the donkey of a false prophet to speak!)

I wonder if there are no testimonies of this amongst missionaries in the M. East, since there is no such concept as assurance or justification, even false based as it would have to be, in the Muslim Religion.

People I know that were in Muslim countries were often questioned by Muslims about Jesus (that in the Quran has a false and blasphemous description as Isah, merely a prophet) .

 

[RobertPGH1981]

Robert you don't have to go to the modern radical Two Kingdom's theology to see that you're over stating your case. The Confessions all speak about natural law, and even in the New Testament it's taken for granted that God has set up SOME system for even pagan rulers to suppress evil, in the normal course of affairs. There are always exceptions of course. But we have a New Testament account of a pagan civil leader punishing pagans who falsely accused Christians.

I may have gone to far with that statement. Although I wanted to strip away the stereotype that only Muslims think this way.

 

[ericfromcowtown]

I think context is important as always. If a convert from Islam, upon professing faith in Christ, wanted to symbollically burn their koran, in a manner similar to those who publically burnt their sorcery scrolls in Acts 19:19, then I can't see the fault in that. However, I fail to see any merit in a church buying a cartful of english-language translations of the koran from Chapters and burning them in front of the cameras as a publicity stunt.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Bibles are burnt routinely by the US military

Would you care to elaborate?

That is an honest question.

They were burnt in '09... but it isn't routinely done.

 

[Mushroom]

Was the burning of the koran lawful or unlawful? I say lawful. Was it necessary or indifferent? I say indifferent. If indifferent, is it likely to bring about offense or evil on the part of others? I say it is more than likely, even certain.

If it is likely to result in evil (and I believe Pastor Jones understood very well it would), what business does a Christian have in carrying out something completely unnecessary that he knew would result in evil, possibly even the slaughter of other Christians? Sad thing that a man who professes Christ would have so little to do, and be so desirous of notoriety, that he would callously do such a thing without regard to the consequences for others. What Christ-glorifying thing might Pastor Jones have to say now to the families of those who were murdered as a result?

 

[torstar]

A very unwise and embarrassing stunt.

The cause of Christ will be blasphemed for this.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

HT Thoughts of Francis Turretin

[video=youtube;91AM7665cbo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AM7665cbo[/video]

 

[Grillsy]

They were burnt in '09... but it isn't routinely done.

Why did they burn them in '09?

 

[SolaScriptura]

They were burnt in '09... but it isn't routinely done.

Why did they burn them in '09?

It is against something called "General Order #1" for folks in the military to proselytize the Afghanis or Iraqis. However, a young soldier's church sent him a bunch of Bibles in the native language so that he could pass them out when he was out amongst the locals. The Army caught wind because he made a YouTube video about it. Anyway, the Army confiscated the Bibles and initially thought about sending them back to the church, but they were afraid the church would simply mail them back. So, to be sure that no Bibles made it into the hands of the locals, and thereby cause an "incident" in which the locals would be enraged that the American "Crusaders" were trying to convert them, the decision was made to burn the Bibles.

 

[Grillsy]

Thanks Ben!

 

[torstar]

Thanks Ben.

Grateful for those who quietly get their work done and don't have the urge to blab it all over YouTube.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I don't think the issue is whether ot not the Quran is an evil book, clearly it is. I would even go as far as to say the very existence of the Muslim religion is a judgment from God. Regardless of this, it serves no point to burn a book. All of us have to live together and I would not appreciate a muslim burning a bible, though they would doubtless find it to be an evil book. Of course I would not go off and start killing people if someone burned a bible because I understand that the holy Word of God is eternal and lives not on the pages of books, but in the hearts and minds of His people, and as such cannot be destroyed by fire or any other means. I guess one good thing that comes from kooks like Terry Jones is that his actions allow for the world to see the true new nature of the false religion of Islam.

 

[SCharles]

It was unnecessary and unwise, but the guilt for the killing lies with the perpetrators.

Terry Jones is guilty of senseless behavior, but the rioters are guilty of murder.

 

[torstar]

I would gladly volunteer those who commit such stunts to stand out in front and bear the obvious rage that is going to come from their actions.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

Grateful for those who quietly get their work done and don't have the urge to blab it all over YouTube.

Have you seen the YouTube video or know the circumstances surrounding it? If so, was it a braggadocios video? If not, are you surmising evil things about the person's intentions to make the video? I'm sincerely asking.

Nope.

Perhaps a rush to judgment.

It is well off the deep end to find "evil" in anything stated so far...

I'll half blame it on the context the video was given in the comment, and my well-established dread at using extremely public media for what should be very private actions.

 

[jawyman]

Here is the latest article from the NYTimes about Terry Jones.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/us/03burn.html?_r=1

 

[seajayrice]

Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

A spiteful and unnecessary act by Jones.

 

[Rufus]

If its going to get the Gospel blasphemed, missionaries and native Christians murdered, persecuted, or driven from their homes, and Western soldiers killed, than its not worth it.

 

[ChristianTrader]

YouTube - Colonel Allen West Answers a Marine's Question

Terry Jones on U.N. Staffers' Deaths - ABC News

I believe that the burning of the Koran was not only okay but was the correct thing to do. Only problem is that it could have been done earlier. There has been a war between the West and Islam for over a thousand years but most do not realize that such a war is occurring. How else would it make sense to try to establish democracies in places where such murderous behavior is not only done but done in the open without fear of arrest and prosecution.

People are starting to understand that this a war that can be lost if we do not understand the situation.

CT

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 PM ----------

Historically, haven't books been burned out of a fear for its content? And if so, what does it accomplish to burn a Quran? Christians should have nothing to fear about that book.

Books have been burned for such a reason but that is not the reasoning behind all burnings, so your second question falls flat. Rev. Jones is not trying to ban the Koran or expressing fear of it, but instead trying to get people to see it for what it is. I have yet to see a coherent objection to this incident.

 

[Rufus]

If you want to "fight" Islam, do it by prayer, missionaries, debates, apologetics, grace, we don't like it when our Bible is destroyed or desecrated, or Jesus mocked (and he most certainly is).

Although, when we our mocked, persecuted, turned away, we generally (and rightfully so) turn the other cheek and respond with Love and Grace to our enemies.

We should have a Puritanboard poll on this...