Patriotic America

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CalvinandHodges

Puritan Board Junior
Greetings:

On this 4th of July I thought to reprint some quotes from our founding fathers.


"The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity ... I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God." - John Adams.

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams.

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." - John Adams.

"Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"? -John Qunicy Adams.

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." -Charles Carroll.

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." - Alexander Hamilton.

"I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.” - Alexander Hamilton.

“It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves." - Samuel Johnson.

"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temporal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way." - James Madison.

In 1813, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible. -“An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress. Madison was most credited with the creation of the American government.

To the Glory of God Allmighty!

-CH
 
You missed this one:

"The Government of the United States of America, is not in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
— U. S. Treaty with Tripoli, 1796.

I'm sorry to say so but I have found as a serious student of history that most of the Founding Fathers as either Deists or Masons would talk a lot about God but not esteem Him in their hearts. The United States was the first established national government in the modern Western world to specifically exclude reference to God in its Constitution.
 
Greetings:

Right, the Treaty of Tripoli of 1796 was broken by the Muslims in 1801. Article 11 is the only quote that can be found concerning the founding of the United States that may indicate a non-Christian origin.

The Constitution of the United States does not have to acknowledge God, because the Declaration of Independance already did. In fact, the Constitution acknowledges the Christian Sabbath (Sunday) in Section 1 article 7.

A really good response to those who uphold this one sentence in the Treaty of Tripoli can be found here:

http://protestantism.suite101.com/blog.cfm/treaty_of_tripoli

Is that all that you have? Just one sentence negates everything else the founding fathers said about the United States?

Blessings,

-CH
 
It should be noted that several treaties, made before and after the treaty of Tripoli, invoke the name of the "most blessed trinity" in their pronouncements.
 
Yes, Yes, we Americans celebrate our country declaring it's independence from a tyrannical regime that taxed us too heavily at 4% only to supplant it with our own self-ruled regime that taxes us Americans at an approximate 40% rate two centuries later. History is full of irony.
 
I'm sorry to say so but I have found as a serious student of history that most of the Founding Fathers as either Deists or Masons would talk a lot about God but not esteem Him in their hearts.
Gee-- I guess some diplomatic finesse on a treaty to appease a hostile Muslim cabal of pirates sums up the American founding. It's exaggeration for you to say that most of the Founding Fathers were Deists or Masons, in much the same way it's inaccurate to say almost all of the Founding Fathers were Christians. M.E. Bradford's Brief Lives of the Framers of the Constitution disproves your insinuations. Fault America for where she is now, not for how she got started.
:2cents:
 
Yes, Yes, we Americans celebrate our country declaring it's independence from a tyrannical regime that taxed us too heavily at 4% only to supplant it with our own self-ruled regime that taxes us Americans at an approximate 40% rate two centuries later. History is full of irony.

Great point.
 
I'm sorry, but I humbly note that (a) the state of American faith among the political leaders at the time was greatly weakened by the humanistic leanings of the influential John Witherspoon; (b) the references to God in the Declaration of Independence put there by the Deist Thomas Jefferson cannot really be construed to be anything more than the product of a Deist mind; (c) Mason thought was highly influential in the formation of the new American government, as can be evidenced by the Masonic symbol of the eye and pyramid visible on our currency, and the pagan Graeco-Roman style architecture in our capital popular among the Masons of the time; (d) The United States was the first country to explicitly exclude mention of God in its Constitution - rather it set up "we the People" as the foundation of government, displacing Christ from His rightful place - furthermore it overturned all the states' requirement of Christianity as a requisite for office; (e) There were undeniably Christians in government, with place of some influence, for quite some time early on - but it was never a Christian government, and we are now seeing the fruits of their failure to make it so.
 
Greetings:

x.spasitel:

a) John Witherspoon a humanist? Do you even know what you are talking about, or, are you simply parroting something you read on the Internet? Witherspoon was a Scottish Presbyterian pastor who was asked by the Presbyterians in the United States to take over Princeton Seminary and University. A simple reading of some of his Sermons may enlighten you on his "humanism":

1) The Absolute Necessity of Salvation Through Christ - A Sermon on Acts 4:12.

2) The Petitions of the Insincere Unavailing - Ps. 66:18.

3) The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men - Ps. 76:10.

4) Solemn Thanksgiving to God - Ps. 3:8.

5) The Glory of Christ in His Humiliation - Is. 63:1.

6) The Object of a Christian's Desire in Religious Worship - Ex. 33:18.

7) The Believer Going to God as His Exceeding Joy - Ps. 43:4.

8) The Deceitfulness of Sin - Heb. 3:13.

9) Christ's Death a Proper Atonement for Sin - 1 John 2:2.

If Witherspoon was a humanist, then we need more of his kind today.

b) Though Thomas Jefferson wrote most of the Declaration of Independance it was also added to and redacted by the Continental Congress before being ratified. Thus, the DOI was not simply the brain child of a supposed Deist, but a consensus document of the whole of Congress. Of the 56 signers of the DOI: 30 were Episcopalians, 13 Congregationalist, 12 Presbyterians, 2 Quakers, 2 Universalists, 2 Episcopalian Deists, and 1 Catholic. It should be remembered that the Episcopalian/Anglican Church had just received a revival of Calvinism though the ministry of George Whitfield who died in 1770 in the United States.

c) A Christian cannot be a Mason. Yet, Masonry was not the same, or understood differently, before the American Revolution. Insofar as Masonry upholds Christian principles, then how can you deny those principles? Calvin quoted Aristotle, Plato, Cicero, Seneca (all pagans) in his Institutes - does that mean that the Institutes is a pagan document?

d) The prohibition for religious test are for the Federal Government only is what the Constitution teaches: In his Commentary on the Constitution of the United States, Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (1779–1845) wrote, “Thus, the whole power over the subject of religion was left exclusively to the State governments, to be acted on according to their own sense of justice, and the State Constitutions.” This was all well and good until the Supreme Court began to apply the prohibitions directed to Congress in the First Amendment to the states as well. There are now no religious tests. To lay this at the foot of the Founding Fathers is not warranted. We need to fix this "new interpretation" of the Constitution.

e) All governments are under the authority of Jesus Christ whether they acknowledge it or not. God exercises his authority over the government through the will of the people. This is proved by Samuel Rutherford in his Lex Rex - especially question 4: "Whether the King be only or immediately from God, and not from the people." Thus, when the Constitution says, "WE THE PEOPLE" it is the people exercising their God-given right to form a government. Again, the Constitution does not have to mention God, because the DOI already did.

Blessings,

-CH
 
Robert:

I can appreciate discussions about the Founding Fathers' beliefs, but what are you trying to establish in this thread? No hard feelings...just trying to follow your overarching view and its implications for living.
 
Personally, I think these quotes about sums it all up..

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams.


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." -Charles Carroll.

“It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves." - Samuel Johnson.

The issue is that the Christian religion has been altogether laid aside by many..just as Samuel Johnson suggested..may happen

Therefore, in agreement with these men, the Consititution was written for a Moral and a religious people, and as "some" of the "we" in "we the people" have laid aside Christianity...and they are the ones choosing such men as think as they do themselves...that espouse evil is good and good is evil..

So even our Founding Fathers realized that if the people did not acknowledge Christianity as their faith, America would change...and the Constitution would no longer have the same impact on the people as it did upon our Nations Founding.
 
So even our Founding Fathers realized that if the people did not acknowledge Christianity as their faith, America would change...and the Constitution would no longer have the same impact on the people as it did upon our Nations Founding.

Jefferson, et al were Deists so if by "acknowledge Christianity as their faith" you mean they would have fit in well with liberal Christian theologies, then sure...but such is quite different than saving faith in the person and work of Christ. People can adopt the basic lifestyle of a Christian do-gooder without knowing Christ...their country may flourish under common grace, but there is ultimately no life there. I would argue that is precisely what we observe today in American evangelicalism and reverting back to the Founding Fathers as an example is their common theme.

I'm not saying that the Founding Fathers were wrong or that we should not be addressing culture from a genuinely Christian conviction. But I do not understand how looking back to the Founding Fathers for guidance today gets us anywhere except substituting "God Bless America" for the Biblical call to go to the ends of the earth.
:2cents:
 
Robert:

I can appreciate discussions about the Founding Fathers' beliefs, but what are you trying to establish in this thread? No hard feelings...just trying to follow your overarching view and its implications for living.

Hey:

I simply wanted to post a series of patriotic quotes concerning America from our Founding Fathers for the 4th of July. No other thought was intended.

Grace,

-CH
 
Personally, I think these quotes about sums it all up..
The issue is that the Christian religion has been altogether laid aside by many..just as Samuel Johnson suggested..may happen

Therefore, in agreement with these men, the Consititution was written for a Moral and a religious people, and as "some" of the "we" in "we the people" have laid aside Christianity...and they are the ones choosing such men as think as they do themselves...that espouse evil is good and good is evil..

So even our Founding Fathers realized that if the people did not acknowledge Christianity as their faith, America would change...and the Constitution would no longer have the same impact on the people as it did upon our Nations Founding.

Greetings:

I agree, but the fault lies with the Christian Church for not proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The popular preachers in the modern era are/were Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggert, and Benny Hinn - not Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, or John Witherspoon. The decision-making "Revivalism" of today's evangelicalism is destroying the Church.

The Constitution of the United States was designed to stand or fall depending on the nature of the External (Catholic) Church.

Peace,

-CH
 
(a) Humanist might have been the wrong word...what I was trying to convey was that John Witherspoon, though orthodox, had highly influential views about republicanism that tied liberal idea to Christianity - not a bad thing, except that in many of his students the liberal ideas became their perception of the Christian faith.

(b) Even in then 1770s, you couldn't say "Episcopalian" or even "Presbyterian" and automatically know "orthodox" -- a case aggravated among the upper classes.

(c) To my understanding, Masonry was as unChristian in the 1770s as it is today, and even then it was impossible to be a Mason and a Christian simultaneously.

(d) While technically that may be correct, it was very shortly after 1783 that states began turning back their religious requirements, both at the request of the federal government and following the lead of the federal government.

(e) I will read the relevant passage.

It seems we may need to 'agree to disagree' on this one...but as far as I see history I cannot fathom that America was founded as a Christian nation when in point of fact it was explicitly founded to the exception of that. Regardless of its sentimental value -- regardless of the fact that I consider its God references largely deist -- the Declaration of Independence is not the law of the land. The Constitution was. That's what counts, and that's what has lasted.

P.S. --that quote by Charles Carroll -- am I mistaken, because if that is meant to be Charles Carroll of Carrollton that means he was the Catholic signer of the Declaration.

Second: here is a fuller version of the Johnston quote:

"It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans, pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President, or other high office, but in one of two cases. First, if the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves. Another case is, if any persons of such descriptions should, notwithstanding their religion, acquire the confidence and esteem of the people of America by their good conduct and practice of virtue, they may be chosen. I leave it to gentlemen's candor to judge what probability there is of the people's choosing men of different sentiments from themselves.”
 
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