Paul Washer mentions 20 percent of conservative reformed congregants saved

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A big problem with the 20% approach is that it doesn't promote self-examination as much as other-examination. It asks us to look around our congregation and wonder who isn't saved. I can't see how that is good for the body.
 
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Leaving the matter of what is actually being taught or not aside, I am confident that there is no place in Scripture where faith is separated from actions, hence some self-examination is proper, especially per James 1:25. If one's doctrine is out of accord with one's practice, something is amiss. That said, self-examination can quickly become morbid introspection, always looking inward, versus outward (2 Corinthians 13:5, 6) to discern Our Lord's beliefs and actions.

Dr Lloyd Jones, Spiritual Depression p.17:

We all agree that we should examine ourselves, but we also agree that introspection and morbidity are bad. But what is the difference between examining ourselves and becoming introspective? I suggest that we cross the line from self-examination to introspection when, in a sense, we do nothing but examine ourselves, and when such self-examination becomes the main and chief end in our life. We are meant to examine ourselves periodically, but if we are always doing it, always, as it were, putting our soul on a plate and dissecting it, that is introspection. And if we are always talking to people about ourselves and our problems and troubles, and if we are forever going to them with that frown upon our face and saying: I am in great difficulty–it probably means that we are all the time centered upon ourselves. That is introspection, and that in turns leads to the condition known as morbidity.​
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I agree that we shoudl be ready and willingly to examine ourselves in order to see if we are still walking as we should with our Lord, but that is not the same as getting my assurance of salvation from looking to Jesus alone for that.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
Absolutely, but I think here is the unspoken question in this thread:

When I "examine" myself, what kind of rubrics and checklist am I using? When I examine myself, I usually go back to the fact that Jesus feeds me from his Table, ratifies his suzereign treaty with me, seals me, and so on.

I never ask whether I experienced hard enough or something.
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I check to make sure I am applying what the Bible teaches to me, but never as to be my final source of assurance.
 
SRoper said:
A big problem with the 20% approach is that it doesn't promote self-examination as much as other-examination. It asks us to look around our congregation and wonder who isn't saved. I can't see how that is good for the body.
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Seems to be a recipe for having a Pharisee like attitude spring up among some in the church. the self proclaimed fruit inspectors, who will be judging based upon what they see as legit behavior.
 
Dachaser said:
I agree that we shoudl be ready and willingly to examine ourselves in order to see if we are still walking as we should with our Lord, but that is not the same as getting my assurance of salvation from looking to Jesus alone for that.
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I stated nothing different:

That said, self-examination can quickly become morbid introspection, always looking inward, versus outward (2 Corinthians 13:5, 6) to discern Our Lord's beliefs and actions.​
 
Dachaser said:
Seems to be a recipe for having a Pharisee like attitude spring up among some in the church. the self proclaimed fruit inspectors, who will be judging based upon what they see as legit behavior.
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I remember first being in that passion for holiness and morality stage, and how I was so quick to judge others. Thankfully I still desire that holiness, but have really grown in just loving others and being charitable to them even in their shortcomings.
 
The man is definitely passionate. I think when he targets carnal Christians he's dead on... But he shouldn't generalize and guesstimate without proper context and qualifier....


 
I think he's kinda right about preaching against sin. It's a serious matter even for the professing Christian. How are pastors and elders embracing social justice, revoice conferences and democrat platforms? How are some falling into severe temptation unto eternal demise? Have we missed the class on the seriousness of sin and what it truly means to have it purged from our hearts? I pray this is not a salvation issue. But maybe a little anxiety is not such a bad thing if it is part of a gracious, glorious exchange. I'd say a little anxiety is worth it
 
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A.Joseph said:
I think he's kinda right about preaching against sin. It's a serious matter even for the professing Christian. How are pastors and elders embracing social justice, revoice conferences and democrat platforms? How are we falling into severe temptation unto our eternal demise? We missed the class on the seriousness of sin and what it truly means to have it purged from our hearts. I pray this is not a salvation issue. But maybe a little anxiety is not such a bad thing if it is part of a gracious, glorious exchange. I'd say a little anxiety is worth it
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It's a logical leap to go from some pastors are hosting Revoice conferences to 20% of the Reformed world is saved.
 
That blog was rubbish. I wouldnt even post something like that about my worst enemy.

I suggest to excersise the same charity towards Paul Washer that you desire from him.

Listen, its one thing to desire a true understanding of what it means to examine yourself if you are in the Faith. Its another thing to riddicule and even mock a man's work for the Lord.

Its one thing if other church leaders are speaking out against Paul Washer and what he teaches. As far as I know they have not. His books are even being published by RHB.

Puritan board is not the place to judge a man's ministry. If you have an issue bring it to your church leaders.
 
Im sure he would like that claim back, we are all on the same team, especially with the way things are going.... He is a good man.... we may have to let this ride. I know there are many who have struggled with assurance in reformed circles so this is a sensitive area. Let’s move on and not quarrel
 
A.Joseph said:
I think he's kinda right about preaching against sin. It's a serious matter even for the professing Christian. How are pastors and elders embracing social justice, revoice conferences and democrat platforms? How are some falling into severe temptation unto eternal demise? Have we missed the class on the seriousness of sin and what it truly means to have it purged from our hearts? I pray this is not a salvation issue. But maybe a little anxiety is not such a bad thing if it is part of a gracious, glorious exchange. I'd say a little anxiety is worth it
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If it's ok with the moderators, and assuming I can put some time and thought into this with two small, needy children (!), could I start another thread out in response to this comment? It would be a general "legal preaching" thread, without referring to Paul Washer. ... I think this is important.
 
BayouHuguenot said:
It's a logical leap to go from some pastors are hosting Revoice conferences to 20% of the Reformed world is saved.
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But that isn't what the headline says. It says "Conservative Reformed". The percentages are obviously much higher among the moderates in the PCA.
 
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