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https://www.christianbook.com/systematic-theology-revised-edition-stanley.I'm interested in reading a systematic theology from the Pentecostal or charismatic perspective. Which systematic would you recommend?
Yours in the Lord,
jm
Renewal Theology by Williams is good. He is competent, knows church history and the languages. In other words, this isn't a holler revival.
He used to have some audio messages, but now they are only in .ram files.
Amos Yong hasn't written a systematics, but he has dealt with these issues from a Pentecostal perspective.
If one is from a Reformed/ or a Calvinistic Baptist understanding though, the Theology of the Charismatic church is wrong in so many ways. They do place a premium on witnessing and living for the Lord, and do place a high esteem on the Bible, but there salvation is very free will based, and their views on the second act of grace tends to divide up the church into those who are first rate, and others second rate Christians.Excellent.
I've been attending a church that is predominately black and the worship boarders on Pentecostal. No one is pretending to make prophecies or healings but it's a lively affair. Preaching is solid as well.
He must have really switched, from being a Calvinist to an Armianian, and also from Gifts ceasing, to all going on now.Much of Rodman Williams' corpus is free here. I had the chance to know him a bit (as he attended an EPC church in Virginia... go figure). Very insightful and personable man. As a former Presbyterian pastor, he had some interesting thoughts on Pentacostalism vis-a-vis Reformed theology (though he comes down, of course, on the other side!)
He must have really switched, from being a Calvinist to an Armianian, and also from Gifts ceasing, to all going on now.
I think that view of all gifts still operating is found much more among those neither Calvinist or reformed.Is he an Arminian? Is there a necessary connection between the gifts' being operative now and Arminianism?
I think that view of all gifts still operating is found much more among those neither Calvinist or reformed.
I think that view of all gifts still operating is found much more among those neither Calvinist or reformed.
Is there a necessary connection between the gifts' being operative now and Arminianism?
If one is from a Reformed/ or a Calvinistic Baptist understanding though, the Theology of the Charismatic church is wrong in so many ways. They do place a premium on witnessing and living for the Lord, and do place a high esteem on the Bible, but there salvation is very free will based, and their views on the second act of grace tends to divide up the church into those who are first rate, and others second rate Christians.
The Aog is the best theology group amomg them, but many of the so called word of faith, modern day Apostles/Prophets, name it and claim it, have moved to be pretty much a heresy within Christendom, at ;east those teaching such doctrines.
Let alone the question of Reformed or Arminian - one can, apparently, even be a Pentecostal Mormon:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050212124038/www.sas.upenn.edu/~dbowie/restore/plds.html
Which to me is really odd, as the traditional Calvinist/Baptist/Reformed would be against that, but would seem that the Dr Carson/Grudem have made a large inroad into having Charisma now being accepted.Many of the so-called “new Calvinists” are charismatic, at least in some sense.
Both groups have normally seen the sign gifts ceasing when the scriptures were completed.But what is the logical connection, if any, between the two?
Yes, as pretty much all of the classic Pentecostal and Charismatic churches help to a free will salvation model.Is he an Arminian? Is there a necessary connection between the gifts' being operative now and Arminianism?
Wonder what tongue Joseph Smith got?Christian eccentricity matched with theological heresy!
Yes, as pretty much all of the classic Pentecostal and Charismatic churches help to a free will salvation model.
Both groups have normally seen the sign gifts ceasing when the scriptures were completed.
Is he an Arminian? Is there a necessary connection between the gifts' being operative now and Arminianism?
I'd venture to surmise that the connection is more psychological than logical. Three possibilities occur to me:
1. Lack of assurance of salvation: if my salvation depends on me, then I cannot be sure of my success in attaining it. How can I be sure that my works are pure enough? How can I be sure that my faith is sincere enough? The extraordinary gifts serve as confirmatory signs.
2.They need some way of attributing strength and power to their weak god. Their god cannot overcome human nature, so they go to great lengths to show that he can overcome natural laws of causation. Hence, miracles, etc.
3.The connection lies in the man-centered foundation of Arminianism, and the way that supposed prophecies and tongues tend to exalt the man exercising the gift.
I am careful, however, to say that I don't know that these ideas are operative in any particular Pentecostal. However, they may lie behind some activity of some of them.
My point was that there was the vast majority who hold to either Pentecostal/Charismatic theologies were from the Non reformed/Calvinist position, as they seem to have a watered down understanding on both inspiration and revelation.Which groups? I asked what the logical connection between Arminianism and Pentecostalism was? Most Arminians are cessationists.
I also would add to that the doctrines of demons that some of their so called teachers are promoting, as many are falling to their bad theology.I'd venture to surmise that the connection is more psychological than logical. Three possibilities occur to me:
1. Lack of assurance of salvation: if my salvation depends on me, then I cannot be sure of my success in attaining it. How can I be sure that my works are pure enough? How can I be sure that my faith is sincere enough? The extraordinary gifts serve as confirmatory signs.
2.They need some way of attributing strength and power to their weak god. Their god cannot overcome human nature, so they go to great lengths to show that he can overcome natural laws of causation. Hence, miracles, etc.
3.The connection lies in the man-centered foundation of Arminianism, and the way that supposed prophecies and tongues tend to exalt the man exercising the gift.
I am careful, however, to say that I don't know that these ideas are operative in any particular Pentecostal. However, they may lie behind some activity of some of them.
I find it better to see there being 2 distinct groups within that broad umbrella, one being the classic Pentecostals such as the AOG, and the new Charasmatics. Though the AOG and similar churches tech wrong about the working of the Holy Spirit in salvation and gifts, not nearly as bad theology as those who have name it and claim it, divine healing for all, additional revelations etc.C
Certainly in some cases. Psych-evals are kind of risky (but we all do it anyway). "Pentecostal" is a broad term covering 500 million people. It could mean anyone from Martin Lloyd-Jones to RT Kendall to Michael Brown to some witch-doctor in South America.