Pope John Paul II is in Hell

Discussion in 'A Puritan's Mind Updates' started by C. Matthew McMahon, Apr 3, 2005.

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  1. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    With all the nonsense the media is portraying, I had to write "something." A short blurb:

    The Pope is in Hell
    by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

    [Edited on 4-4-2005 by webmaster]
  2. SmokingFlax

    SmokingFlax Puritan Board Sophomore

  3. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    Wow! Very well put, Matt!

    It's interesting to note that even a Pope may have a place reserved for him in hell, according to Dante's Inferno.
  4. lwadkins

    lwadkins Puritan Board Junior

    Nice to see someone has the courage to say it:candle:
  5. cupotea

    cupotea Puritan Board Junior

  6. ChristianasJourney

    ChristianasJourney Puritan Board Sophomore

    Perhaps so, but personally, I wouldn't have the courage to say so, and not because I'm afraid of what others may think of me, but rather I'm afraid of what God will say of me. Because the truth is, only God knows the soul, and only God knows the heart of an individual. Whatever John Paul represented publically, only God knew his heart. And God is clearly not a denominational God.

    I guess a lot depends on what one must believe in order to be saved. I was taught that it primarly consisted of the sum of the Nicine Creed:

    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    of one Being with the Father.
    Through him all things were made.
    For us and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven:
    by the power of the Holy Spirit
    he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
    and was made man.
    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered death and was buried.
    On the third day he rose again
    in accordance with the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
    He has spoken through the Prophets.
    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come. Amen.

    This I'm quite sure John Paul II would have ascribed to. Beyond that, the errors in his (and our life) are sins, but do we know that his sins are so much greater than our sins that they kept him out of heaven?


    [Edited on 4-3-2005 by ChristianasJourney]
  7. blhowes

    blhowes Puritan Board Professor

    Catchy title and nice article.
  8. Solo Christo

    Solo Christo Puritan Board Freshman

    Hi Janice,

    Just out of curiousity, did you read the article Matt posted?
  9. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    He went much further than the Nicene Creed. He believed Mary had to suffer with Christ to gain merit that he could then earn by obedience and good works.

    He did not (as far as we know before he died) have faith in Christ alone for salvation. He was trusting, by his own words, in the work of Christ combined with and supplimented by the works of Mary, the Apostles, the saints, the Popes, and even works he himself did to gain merit before Christ.

    This is not the gospel. And a fasle gospel cannot save.

    Ephesians 2
    8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    1 Timothy 2
    5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus...

    Yes, unless he repented and trusted Christ alone, he is in hell, as we ALL DESERVE TO BE but for the grace of God.

  10. lwadkins

    lwadkins Puritan Board Junior

    I think it is the Word of God that judges people and Popes. I think we can be pretty sure that the Pope subscribed to the beliefs of the Roman Church.:detective:
  11. Tirian

    Tirian Puritan Board Sophomore

    Good article. I think your call to pray for those in the Apostate church is spot on - we must plead with God that He would turn them from their wickedness and that He would call them out of their folly and into His family.
  12. Bladestunner316

    Bladestunner316 Puritan Board Doctor

  13. ChristianasJourney

    ChristianasJourney Puritan Board Sophomore

    Yes, I did read it.

    And you're right, he probably isn't saved, near as we can tell.

    I really shouldn't have responded.

    I'm just troubled by how quick we are to send people to hell, when only God knows the true state of a soul, when God knows who he has choosen to redeem, and when salvation can occur up to the point of death. This "can they be saved" thought pattern is prevalent in other threads that talk about dispensationalists, pentecostals, Arminians, non-denoms, home churches, etc.

    I don't know the pope, but I know that he was born with all the weaknesses of mankind--greed, envy, hypocrisy. What it looks like to us, is not always the way it is--Think of David comitting adultry, Naaman bowing before the idol, Jacob allowing his father-in-laws gods in his midst. Would a man who was pope and Christian, step down from Popery? Would a man acknowledge his changing views in a world of politics and religion? A world where his predecessor may have been murdered? Only God knows the heart. He will be judged for his lack of belief in God. If he is saved he will be judged for his failure to uphold the truth, and for leading people astray...but again, only God knows where his soul is.

    Don't let me trouble anyone though, it's my nature to second guess, it's my nature to argue the other side. I should've been an attorney.

    [Edited on 4-4-2005 by ChristianasJourney]
  14. Robin

    Robin Puritan Board Junior

    Matt, ya got guts there, my boy!! Now, if only you could format a "printer friendly" version of the article. Can you? I'd love to disseminate some copies....

  15. lwadkins

    lwadkins Puritan Board Junior

    I object Janice :lol:

    [Edited on 4-4-2005 by lwadkins]
  16. Solo Christo

    Solo Christo Puritan Board Freshman


    I didn't mean to drag you out. I just wondered if you read the post. It would be different if Matt had posted a bunch of slanderous opinions. He did not. He relied on the Word of God to make a strong point that the rest of the world seems to have missed entirely.

    I understand your feelings on condemning others. In this regard though I believe we have enough Scriptural warrant to long in all humility for the Lord to "kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming" (2 Thess. 2:8, ESV). We also share a heavy duty to pray for those lost in the apostate church and Matt did a wonderful job emphasizing that point.
  17. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    Matt, that was a little too irenic don't ya think??? :p
  18. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    I'm standing right next to Matthew.

    Only thing, I posted my take on it on a non-Christian message board. :p

    Time to Hate Kerry again...
  19. kceaster

    kceaster Puritan Board Junior

    The real question I have is did he supress the truth in unrighteousness and did he depend upon Christ alone for his salvation. I have to believe that it is yes to the first, and no to the second.

    But I should say that I agree with Westminster when it condemns the See of Rome as the antichrist. As such, any man who considers himself as the Vicar of Christ, no matter what his faith level or understanding, has profaned Christ and blasphemed His Holy Spirit.

    Therefore, even though he may escape the punishment of man, yet the Lord our God will not suffer him to escape His righteous judgment. (If you'll pardon my using the WSC in a slightly different way.)

    In Christ,

  20. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Try this link:

    The Pope is in Hell
  21. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior


    We as a group (reformed) are quick to judge and often harsh. We may be right and we may be telling the truth, but as I told our church this morning, "Don't try to witness to your Catholic friends this week by telling them the Pope is in hell." We must take this news and bring it to a personal level - that all of us will die and that there is only One Way to be prepared to face death and judgment. We can use the Pope as an example - all are sinners, the wages of sin is still death, and faith alone in Christ is still the Only Way to be saved.

    If they ask outright if we believe he is in hell we have been handed the perfect opportunity to explain the gospel of grace and how God saves sinners. If they press, be honest, but not mean or harsh or judgmental. We must base what we believe on the Bible and take the time to give people the Word of God.

    I think Matt's article is right on. But I also think we need to be careful that we all don't jump on the "Pope is burning in hell" bandwagon to the point that we offend people not with the gospel but with our own pontifications about who is and is not deemed by us worthy of salvation!!

    This is a critical issue and offers tremendous opportunity to advance the gospel. It also affords us a fantastic opportunity to act like religious bigots and hate filled morons.

  22. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    CNN is conducting a poll on whether the Pope should be "made a saint." At present, 38,793 votes for aye (61%) and 25,212 votes for nay (39%).
  23. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior

    FYI - Matthew, if you see extra traffic coming to your article on the reformation, I've been posting links to it all over the place, especially for some of my protestant friends who have just heard about the Pope having 'Mary I'm Totally Yours' on his sleeve. :)

    Anybody know where I can find (online) Calvin's book on Trent (I think it's called The Acts of the Council of Trent and the Antidote) ?
  24. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    This is slightly off the subject but Greg Bahnsen mentioned in a sermon dealing with recent converts to the Roman Church concerning JPII.

    "I grant that the Pope's a nice guy. I wouldn't mind going to a ballgame with him. But when he puts on that mitre and sacrifices Christ anew in the Mass, he is my sworn enemy, now and forever unless God grants him repentance."

    You can find that sermon from Covenant Media titled, "The Road to Rome: Was the Reformation Necessary?"
  25. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate


    Thanks alot for this article. I am so happy to see that you are taking this unpopular (but TRUE!) stance.

    Yesterday, one of our elders prayed for the pope, and praised him for his work of dividing barriers between Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Protestantism. :banghead:

    This caused quite the controversy in our small PCA congregation. But it has also forced me to take my voice to the session, for this drift into friendship with Catholicism is in my opinion a "hill to die on." It is the issue of the gospel itself!!

    Thanks again.
  26. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    Here ya go, Kerry!
  27. ABondSlaveofChristJesus

    ABondSlaveofChristJesus Puritan Board Freshman

    I want ot link this on my xanga, but I have soooo many catholic friends.
  28. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Puritan Publications is working on that right now. We are going to put together both the Antodote with his treatise on relics too. Its good stuff.
  29. Robin

    Robin Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you, Matt! May I have permission to share this with others?

    In an effort to cause even more "trouble",

  30. BlackCalvinist

    BlackCalvinist Puritan Board Senior


    R. Scott Clark has some great stuff on his site. :)
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