RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I know what premil teaches, and if partial preterism is true, then premil is wrong.
Postmillennialism and the Law
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I know what premil teaches, and if partial preterism is true, then premil is wrong.
zsmcd
Puritan Board Freshman
And how does this principally come to pass? By means of regeneration or force? Does Jesus come back with an iron rod and force everyone into submission? I am not trying to create a faulty dichotomy. Jesus will destroy his enemies by force. But not necessarily in order to establish and expand his Kingdom. This happens by means of regeneration.
I too believe that Jesus will return and will from thereon be only worshiped on the earth - but this is because he has delivered the Kingdom over to his Father and has brought together heaven and earth and given us glorified bodies.
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zsmcd
Puritan Board Freshman
Right. And this becomes easier to grasp when we grasp partial preterism. Days of judgment that occurred within history were often identified with language that was very 'end-of-the-worldly'. Of course, history and creation did not cease with the destruction of Jerusalem in the sense that history and creation carried on. But in a very real way the history and culture of OT Israel had ended and a new age had been ushered in.
If this is true, why can't the same type of language be utilized to express the blessings of the return from exile, birth of the savior, and the NT age in general?
zsmcd
Puritan Board Freshman
In fact, this is exactly how Mary responds to the conception of our Lord.
"And Mary said:
My soul exalts the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
“For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;
For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.
“For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
And holy is His name.
And His mercy is upon generation after generation
Toward those who fear Him.
“He has done mighty deeds with His arm;
He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart.
“He has brought down rulers from their thrones,
And has exalted those who were humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
And sent away the rich empty-handed.
“He has given help to Israel His servant,
In remembrance of His mercy,
As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and his descendants forever.”
"And Mary said:
My soul exalts the Lord,
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
“For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;
For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed.
“For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
And holy is His name.
And His mercy is upon generation after generation
Toward those who fear Him.
“He has done mighty deeds with His arm;
He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart.
“He has brought down rulers from their thrones,
And has exalted those who were humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
And sent away the rich empty-handed.
“He has given help to Israel His servant,
In remembrance of His mercy,
As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and his descendants forever.”
I am open to that suggestion, as I do think that all of us will be surprised in some fashion when it all plays out as God intends.
Then so would the other options like Amil/Post Mil also.
Except that there still remains some NT prophecy not fulfilled in AD 70, as pretierists seem to hold with as happening.
Well, Paul does state that when Jesus returns with His flaming Angels, they will execute fiery judgment upon those who have denied the Gospel and rejected Jesus, correct?
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Are you saying that if partial preterism is true, then postmil is false? That's incorrect. I am postmil because I am partial preterist.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Right, so will he kill the unbelievers or convert them for the millennium?
arapahoepark
Puritan Board Professor
It seems pretty obvious how it is intended by having the historical books first then the Prophets which have a lot of history too, showing how it is and was interpreted.
If you are talking Full Preterist then this is heaven. Partial (as I keep saying, it is a shame that it has to be labeled to distance itself from borderline cultish though) has a different mindset than the all or nothing mindset of dispensationalists and full preterists.
Either the Kingdom is now because the king has actually come and 'inagurated' it or the opposite extreme is that of Hagee, that Jesus is not Messiah or King right now but a good teacher during his first coming.
He will execute judgment upon those who denied Jesus as Messiah.
Or the Kingdom is here in partial, but not not yet in its fullness.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
So no mass conversions? When does Israel get converted?
When the see Him whom they killed off, when Jesus appears at His second coming.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
So there is at least one group that Jesus doesn't kill off?
I am not saying kill off, but he does judge them for their rejection of Him, and it does say that he slays many at the end when he appears in revelation, correct?
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
You don't have a clear account of what's happening. On one hand many are killed off, but that doesn't explain the following:
a) there has to be enough people for a golden age, yet where do these people come from--as the church has always been a minority?
b) there will be those who fall away at the end of the millennium. But that raises a problem: the believer can't fall away. So where did the unbeliever come from during the millennium?
There will be normal human being still alive after Jesus returns to populate the earth.
During the reign of Jesus, there will be those who merely profess Him, and will show their true colors at the end of that time.
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
What "return" is this? The Second Coming and the judgment immediately following?
Some time before the judgment?
Please explain.
The time of when Jesus returns to earth at His second coming, and then the lost will be judged and have judgment executed upon them, and then we go into the time of Him ruling over all the nations and people left on the earth.
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
How does that align with this:
Are you actually stating that following the Judgment, while Our Lord reigns in the new heaven and earth, there will be non-believers?
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
In this post you said he will execute fiery judgment with his angels at his coming. Which coming is that?
Ask Mr. Religion
Flatly Unflappable
So Jesus comes sometime before the Judgment, rules on earth populated by believers and non-believers for some period of time, then the Judgment. Have I understood you correctly, David?
How long will this earthly reign of Jesus to last?
Just upon the wicked still alive at His second coming
When the second coming happens, all of the saved who died in Christ, and those alive shall be glorified, to be in the same type of form that Jesus has, and those still living in their normal bodies shall go into the earthy reign of Jesus,
For an extend period of time, normally held to be roughly a thousand years.
One of my reasons for seeing is that I see the First Resurrection mention in revelation 20 as being that of the saved at time of Second Coming, while the great White Throne will be the lost at second resurrection.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
So where do the wicked come from in the millennium who will rebel at the end of the 1,000 years?
Among those who will be born during that time.
Believe that in Isaiah 65:17, the prophet talks about this reigning of Messiah as time when children die at 100 years of age.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Even on a premil scheme, we are glorified when Jesus returns (so that we don't die in the millennium). Do glorified believers procreate?
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