Premillenialism? vs Dispensationalism?
- Thread starter blhowes
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I have not heard of a "pre-dispensational premillenialism." Is that a new school of eschatology?
I know that all dispensationalists are premillennial, but not all premillennialists are dispensationalists!
Say that 3 times real fast.....
Duh...in re-reading this, do you mean premillennialism [i:f8936fbd06]before[/i:f8936fbd06] the onset of dispensationalism? As in historic premillennialism?
The differences are huge! George Eldon Ladd has written some GREAT stuff on historic premillennialism. In fact, if you do not have it, even if you are not a premillennialist, you should get his commentary on Revelation!
Some of the major differences between Dispensational premil and historic premil would be that the historic premil does not see a reference to the millennium in the OT. Only NT passages reveal to us the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after His Second Coming.
They do not see it as a fulfillment of promises to the Jewish nation, nor do they allow for the new era of memmorial animal sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem like the Dispensationalists claim will happen.
Historic premils also deny any secret "pre-trib" rapture of the church.
The Second Coming is the Second Coming.
Hope that starts to answer what you were asking......
Phillip :saint:
[Edited on 2-15-04 by pastorway]
I know that all dispensationalists are premillennial, but not all premillennialists are dispensationalists!
Say that 3 times real fast.....
Duh...in re-reading this, do you mean premillennialism [i:f8936fbd06]before[/i:f8936fbd06] the onset of dispensationalism? As in historic premillennialism?
The differences are huge! George Eldon Ladd has written some GREAT stuff on historic premillennialism. In fact, if you do not have it, even if you are not a premillennialist, you should get his commentary on Revelation!
Some of the major differences between Dispensational premil and historic premil would be that the historic premil does not see a reference to the millennium in the OT. Only NT passages reveal to us the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after His Second Coming.
They do not see it as a fulfillment of promises to the Jewish nation, nor do they allow for the new era of memmorial animal sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem like the Dispensationalists claim will happen.
Historic premils also deny any secret "pre-trib" rapture of the church.
The Second Coming is the Second Coming.
Hope that starts to answer what you were asking......
Phillip :saint:
[Edited on 2-15-04 by pastorway]
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Pastor Way did a good job of showing some of the differences...
All I'd add is just that premillenialism is just an eschatology whereas dispensationalism is a system of theology that INCLUDES premillenialism.
Thus premillenialism can exist apart from dispensationalism, but dispensationalism can't exist apart from premillenialism.
All I'd add is just that premillenialism is just an eschatology whereas dispensationalism is a system of theology that INCLUDES premillenialism.
Thus premillenialism can exist apart from dispensationalism, but dispensationalism can't exist apart from premillenialism.
blhowes
Puritan Board Professor
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
...in re-reading this, do you mean premillennialism before the onset of dispensationalism? As in historic premillennialism?
Historic premillennialism! That's it. I couldn't remember what it was called. Thanks for reading between the lines and figuring out what I was asking.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
The differences are huge! George Eldon Ladd has written some GREAT stuff on historic premillennialism. In fact, if you do not have it, even if you are not a premillennialist, you should get his commentary on Revelation!
The differences are huge? - I'd like to read some of his writings sometime. I've always lumped Dispensational and premil together. It'll be interesting to understand the differences.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
Some of the major differences between Dispensational premil and historic premil would be that the historic premil does not see a reference to the millennium in the OT. Only NT passages reveal to us the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after His Second Coming.
So would that mean that, for historic premil,the OT blessings that are commonly said to describe the millennium are actually describing the "church age"? Sounds almost like the amil position with a kingdom grand finale.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
They do not see it as a fulfillment of promises to the Jewish nation, nor do they allow for the new era of memmorial animal sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem like the Dispensationalists claim will happen.
That's good to hear. For me, the renewed sacrificial system was the most troubling of the Dispensational teachings.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
Hope that starts to answer what you were asking......
It does. I'm really curious to learn more.
[b:80baf0c8e7]SolaScriptura wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
All I'd add is just that premillenialism is just an eschatology whereas dispensationalism is a system of theology that INCLUDES premillenialism.
Would other systems of theology also include premillenialism. For example, would CT be able to accommodate the premil teachings, or is it primarily better suited for baptistic theology?
Bob
...in re-reading this, do you mean premillennialism before the onset of dispensationalism? As in historic premillennialism?
Historic premillennialism! That's it. I couldn't remember what it was called. Thanks for reading between the lines and figuring out what I was asking.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
The differences are huge! George Eldon Ladd has written some GREAT stuff on historic premillennialism. In fact, if you do not have it, even if you are not a premillennialist, you should get his commentary on Revelation!
The differences are huge? - I'd like to read some of his writings sometime. I've always lumped Dispensational and premil together. It'll be interesting to understand the differences.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
Some of the major differences between Dispensational premil and historic premil would be that the historic premil does not see a reference to the millennium in the OT. Only NT passages reveal to us the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth after His Second Coming.
So would that mean that, for historic premil,the OT blessings that are commonly said to describe the millennium are actually describing the "church age"? Sounds almost like the amil position with a kingdom grand finale.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
They do not see it as a fulfillment of promises to the Jewish nation, nor do they allow for the new era of memmorial animal sacrifices at the Temple in Jerusalem like the Dispensationalists claim will happen.
That's good to hear. For me, the renewed sacrificial system was the most troubling of the Dispensational teachings.
[b:80baf0c8e7]Pastor Way wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
Hope that starts to answer what you were asking......
It does. I'm really curious to learn more.
[b:80baf0c8e7]SolaScriptura wrote:[/b:80baf0c8e7]
All I'd add is just that premillenialism is just an eschatology whereas dispensationalism is a system of theology that INCLUDES premillenialism.
Would other systems of theology also include premillenialism. For example, would CT be able to accommodate the premil teachings, or is it primarily better suited for baptistic theology?
Bob
Good thread!
Now, would it be accurate to describe premillers as more "literal" than amillers?
It's weird...I've been describing myself as amil, but my brother (who is postmil) described me as historic premil....
I have a lot of confusion on this! More info on premil would be great!
Now, would it be accurate to describe premillers as more "literal" than amillers?
It's weird...I've been describing myself as amil, but my brother (who is postmil) described me as historic premil....
I have a lot of confusion on this! More info on premil would be great!
blhowes
Puritan Board Professor
I don't know if anybody else would be interested in this, but I found an excellent chart at [u:28a1faa9dd]The Reformed Reader[/u:28a1faa9dd] website that Sam Hughey did. It gives a handy comparison/summary of the Postmillenial position, the amillennial position, and the premillennial position (historic/covevant, dispensational, and progressive dispensational) for the following categories:
HISTORICITY
DISTINCTIVE OVERVIEW
HERMENEUTICS
REVELATION 19:20
SECOND COMING
KINGDOM, TIMING OF
KINGDOM, NATURE OF
KINGDOM, Christ'S REIGN IN
MILLENNIUM, DESCRIPTION
MILLENNIUM, DURATION
SATAN'S BINDING AND CURRENT STATUS
TRIBULATION
ANTICHRIST(S)
RAPTURE
THE TEMPLE
THE RESURRECTION
judgment
ISRAEL
ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH
THE CHURCH
HISTORIC EXPECTATION
THE HOPE OF THE CHURCH
NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH
Its great if you just want to get a high-level comparison of the different views.
Bob
[Edited on 2-16-2004 by blhowes]
HISTORICITY
DISTINCTIVE OVERVIEW
HERMENEUTICS
REVELATION 19:20
SECOND COMING
KINGDOM, TIMING OF
KINGDOM, NATURE OF
KINGDOM, Christ'S REIGN IN
MILLENNIUM, DESCRIPTION
MILLENNIUM, DURATION
SATAN'S BINDING AND CURRENT STATUS
TRIBULATION
ANTICHRIST(S)
RAPTURE
THE TEMPLE
THE RESURRECTION
judgment
ISRAEL
ISRAEL AND THE CHURCH
THE CHURCH
HISTORIC EXPECTATION
THE HOPE OF THE CHURCH
NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH
Its great if you just want to get a high-level comparison of the different views.
Bob
[Edited on 2-16-2004 by blhowes]
TheonomyNZ
Puritan Board Freshman
[quote:80cdac07fb][i:80cdac07fb]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:80cdac07fb]
And yes, historic premil and amil view the OT passages the same.[/quote:80cdac07fb]Really? Don't the historic premillennialists believe that the milennium is refered to in the OT? If they do, surely they don't interpret it the same way as amilennialists.
[quote:80cdac07fb]I would have to say that between all the systems out there "historic premil" and "optimistic amil" are the closest!![/quote:80cdac07fb]Now there's something I cannot understand....uzzled:
I would have thought optimistic amillennialism and recent versions of [i:80cdac07fb]postmillennialism[/i:80cdac07fb] were essentially the same, but premillennialism? historic Premillenialism defines the millennium as a finite period of time after Christ raises the righteous dead, a period terminated by the final resurrection. Moreover, historic premillennialism, as far as I know, anticipates a decline in justice and righteousness, culminating in a future AntiChrist. That's surely in contrast to optimistic amilennialism (as opposed to non optimistic forms). Am I missing something here?
[Edited on 17/2/2004 by TheonomyNZ]
And yes, historic premil and amil view the OT passages the same.[/quote:80cdac07fb]Really? Don't the historic premillennialists believe that the milennium is refered to in the OT? If they do, surely they don't interpret it the same way as amilennialists.
[quote:80cdac07fb]I would have to say that between all the systems out there "historic premil" and "optimistic amil" are the closest!![/quote:80cdac07fb]Now there's something I cannot understand....
uzzled:I would have thought optimistic amillennialism and recent versions of [i:80cdac07fb]postmillennialism[/i:80cdac07fb] were essentially the same, but premillennialism? historic Premillenialism defines the millennium as a finite period of time after Christ raises the righteous dead, a period terminated by the final resurrection. Moreover, historic premillennialism, as far as I know, anticipates a decline in justice and righteousness, culminating in a future AntiChrist. That's surely in contrast to optimistic amilennialism (as opposed to non optimistic forms). Am I missing something here?
[Edited on 17/2/2004 by TheonomyNZ]
Historic Premils do not see the Millennium anywhere in the OT. Those would be the dispensationalists!
And perhaps I have it backwards.....Historic Premil and Amil are the closest of the systems......edit out the word optimistic.......although, since we all know that Jesus is coming back we are all optimists!
Phillip
[Edited on 2-17-04 by pastorway]
And perhaps I have it backwards.....Historic Premil and Amil are the closest of the systems......edit out the word optimistic.......although, since we all know that Jesus is coming back we are all optimists!
Phillip
[Edited on 2-17-04 by pastorway]
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