Presbyterians and Sin

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Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
My mom-in-law just sent me her church's newsletter (I'll let you guess the denomination :rolleyes: ). I don't know why; she's never done so before. Well, after meandering through a section by the pastor where he extols the wonders of Lent (this is the same guy that while my wife and I visited one Lord's Day to appease the in-laws, he pulled out a rosary during the "children's sermon" and talked about how it helped his Roman Catholic friend to pray), I ran across this interesting comment as he posted his sermon texts and themes for the month of March.

March 15th
Sermon Title: “He Himself Knew”
Scripture: Exodus 20:1-20 & John 2:13-25
Thoughts for Reflection: Presbyterians don’t talk about sin
too much. We treat the relationship between a person and
their maker as something intensely private and personal.
What’s amazing is that God does know what is on our hearts
and God still chose to send Jesus to die for our sins, whether
we talk about them or not.

"Presbyterians don't talk about sin too much"? He need to talk to my congregation. I think they'd like me to stop talking about it so much! Anyone care to tackle the orthodoxy of this statement: "What’s amazing is that God does know what is on our hearts and God still chose to send Jesus to die for our sins, whether
we talk about them or not
."

I did receive a word of encouragement from one lady in our congregation (she's a former Baptist) after my sermon at Presbytery -- she told me, "You preached like a Baptist!" She meant it as a complement!
 
CHAPTER XV.
Of Repentance Unto Life.

I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

II. By it a sinner, out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments.

III. Although repentance be not to be rested in as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet is it of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

IV. As there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

V. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly.

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof, upon which, and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy: so he that scandalizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended; who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.

We discussed this section of the Westminster Confession in Sunday School this morning. Seems to me presbyterians are supposed to be thinking a lot about sin and repenting of it, too.
 
As a Baptist, I've found more preaching against sin in Presbyterian sermons (Bahnsen, Beeke, Greer, Cairns, etc.) than I did in most of the IFBx sermons I've heard.
 
Sin is addressed during the Confession of Sin and promise of Forgiveness during the actual liturgy for starters in most Presbyterian Churches. In the preaching it has been my experience that Sin and Repentance are addressed differently by Presbyterian ministers than Baptist ministers in the actual delivery of the Sermon however it doesn't mean that it is not addressed. My :2cents:
 
When I was at Southern some of my Baptist friends - and even some of my professors - would say things like, "The Reformed denial of all-regenerate church membership often leads them to be tolerant of sin and hesitant to address or deal with it."

Such a position is really at odds with the Confession... but practically speaking, when I was in Baptist circles I found that they may preach against "sin" - in a moralistic list of do's and don'ts, thumping the pulpit kind of way - but in actual practice of, they did very little in terms of discipline. Most of the Presbyterian churches I've encountered have demonstrated a much greater willingness to step up and hold a way-ward member accountable.
 
My church is not tolerate of habitual and deals out discipline without reserve. Also, my church reminds us of what wicked sinners we are and how much we need Christ....we are OPC....so I don't think that fellow is well informed really.
 
If I may be EXTREMELY gracious to his comments, he is probably intending them to speak of "presbyterians" (if they can in fact be called that) in a very broad manner (like "Christians", perhaps in the nominal sense). Basically, I think he was saying that Christians or people in general don't like to talk about sin, but that doesn't negate the fact that Christ came to deal with sin. But he didn't say it in a very good way. That's about as positive of a spin as I can put on it.

Perhaps if he (et al) looked at Presbyterianism historical (and Reformed Christianity in general), he might have this confusion. But, this is the guy who defended to use of the rosary... :rolleyes:
 
Quote:
March 15th
Sermon Title: “He Himself Knew”
Scripture: Exodus 20:1-20 & John 2:13-25
Thoughts for Reflection: Presbyterians don’t talk about sin
too much. We treat the relationship between a person and
their maker as something intensely private and personal.
What’s amazing is that God does know what is on our hearts
and God still chose to send Jesus to die for our sins, whether
we talk about them or not.

Two of the central doctrines of reformed theology are the awfulness of sin, and the mercy of our God in redemption. They go hand-in-hand and as historical presbyterianism recognizes, one cannot rightly understand one without the other.

I'm not sure what he means by "We treat the relationship between a person and
their maker as something intensely private and personal"? If that relationship is not being talked about in corporate worship, it makes one wonder what is.
 
Thoughts for Reflection: Presbyterians don’t talk about sin
too much. We treat the relationship between a person and
their maker as something intensely private and personal.

Unfortunately, it does sound like my church a bit.:doh: If I had never visited any other Pres. churches, I'd agree with the guy.
 
Oddly enough, this congregation regularly has a corporate confession of sin in the service.

This brings up a question that came up in our discussion on repentance, and perhaps some of you pastors could address this. While the Westminster Confession addresses our personal and daily repentance, and clearly talks about open repentance when it comes to offending others, it seems to be silent about public confession in worship.

There certainly is a biblical precident for public confession, but where (if at all) does the Confession address this issue?
 
Oddly enough, this congregation regularly has a corporate confession of sin in the service.

This brings up a question that came up in our discussion on repentance, and perhaps some of you pastors could address this. While the Westminster Confession addresses our personal and daily repentance, and clearly talks about open repentance when it comes to offending others, it seems to be silent about public confession in worship.

There certainly is a biblical precident for public confession, but where (if at all) does the Confession address this issue?

This may not be it, but I interpret that from here:
V. The reading of the Scriptures with godly fear,[17] the sound preaching[18] and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith and reverence,[19] singing of psalms with grace in the heart;[20] as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God:[21] beside religious oaths,[22] vows,[23] solemn fastings,[24] and thanksgivings upon special occasions,[25] which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner.[26]

WCF XXV/V
 
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