Primary Way The US can become energy become self-reliant on oil.

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etexas

Puritan Board Doctor
What the Govt. does not tell you. The US still has a LOT of oil. Texas, Alaska, Louisiana, Oklahoma to name a few. We still drill and pump. PROBLEM. Through geopolitical foolishness (as well as unfounded eco-concerns), in the mid 70's we STOPPED refining. The last high capacity refinery was built (I think) in '78! So what happens to all our oil, class? Any hands? Thats RIGHT! We sell it into the international markets and it is refined abroad. THEN we buy it back! At set international prices! If OPEC makes a commodity "call" on oil, then that is what we pay for it, including US crude (now, presto gasoline). Brethren. We have sold our birthrights for pottage! PRESSURE the Houses, BUILD HIGH CAPACITY REFINERIES....on our own soil....not abroad! The oil biz is complex, but , to simplify, we are only half in! We must take our own crude, and refine it ourselves. It will create jobs, lower the price at the pumps and get us out of bed with the Saudis.:2cents:
 
Such wisdom. If only the libs and environmental types wouldn't of had such influence. It would be a great way to reinvigorate our economy too!

Preach on brother!!
 
As someone pointed out to me lately, to get a state's approval to build a new refinery in their backyard is near impossible. I did hear that South Dakota (I think) just gave approval for a Refinery -- which may be the first new one in 20 years.

The Liberals say, "this is one problem we can't drill our way out of." But that's exactly what we could do, if we would. State and Federal Bureaucracy and left-wing Eco-nonsense have taken its toll.
 
We had a refinery just a few miles from my house. It has been gone for almost 20 years now. They need to replace it.
 
My dad actually knows quite a bit about the oil industry as he is an engineer working for Royal Dutch Shell International. In regard to what is happening with the oil in the states, I think I might be able to provide some insights. Here in Alberta, several oil companies are refining tar sand into synthetic crude and selling it to the US and using some of it in Canada. The reason they waited many years to start exploiting tar sand was that they had to wait for the price of oil to go up enough for profit to be possible. Now the price of the barrel has gone so high that they are laughing real hard at all the money they can make out of the tar sand. However, the economic boom in Alberta has caused a shortage of trades-men so that building new refineries locally is becoming less afordable. My dad said they have started to add an extension to the Shell Scotford Upgrader in Alberta, but that all other extensions in the future will be made in the US, since the man-power is cheaper. So don't worry, they will soon start building more refineries in the US.

Overall the policy of Uncle Sam and the rich American Oil companies is to suck up as much oil from all around the world while keeping their own reserves for later. Then, when they have finished pumping the oil from all the surrounding countries, they will start using their own and selling it to others at very high price. Besides, American Oil companies are not in the business of providing affordable oil to the their fellow country-men, what they want is the highest price that they can get for their barrel, and so that explains why they first go through the OPEC before independently selling it within the States. The reason they do not refine the oil locally is simply because it was cheaper to ship it to places like India and have it refine over there. All the decisions that are made in the industry and business revolve around money. Maximizing profit. So it is not due to geopolitical foolishness that American Oil companies are not refining the much oil locally yet.

Note, I am not anti-American, although I do hate uncle Sam. I also hate the Canadian government for being too fickle. The more I examine things the more I realize that their is really a hand-full of people who are really controlling everything in this world (however not apart from God's providence).
 
My dad actually knows quite a bit about the oil industry as he is an engineer working for Royal Dutch Shell International. In regard to what is happening with the oil in the states, I think I might be able to provide some insights. Here in Alberta, several oil companies are refining tar sand into synthetic crude and selling it to the US and using some of it in Canada. The reason they waited many years to start exploiting tar sand was that they had to wait for the price of oil to go up enough for profit to be possible. Now the price of the barrel has gone so high that they are laughing real hard at all the money they can make out of the tar sand. However, the economic boom in Alberta has caused a shortage of trades-men so that building new refineries locally is becoming less afordable. My dad said they have started to add an extension to the Shell Scotford Upgrader in Alberta, but that all other extensions in the future will be made in the US, since the man-power is cheaper. So don't worry, they will soon start building more refineries in the US.

Overall the policy of Uncle Sam and the rich American Oil companies is to suck up as much oil from all around the world while keeping their own reserves for later. Then, when they have finished pumping the oil from all the surrounding countries, they will start using their own and selling it to others at very high price. Besides, American Oil companies are not in the business of providing affordable oil to the their fellow country-men, what they want is the highest price that they can get for their barrel, and so that explains why they first go through the OPEC before independently selling it within the States.

Note, I am not anti-American, although I do hate uncle Sam. I also hate the Canadian government for being too fickle. The more I examine things the more I realize that their is really a hand-full of people who are really controlling everything in this world (however not apart from God's providence).
Thank you good input! My family has been in the oil Biz for a long time too, I might actually have a "few" wells.:) I know a bit about a few things.:wow:
 
We had a refinery just a few miles from my house. It has been gone for almost 20 years now. They need to replace it.

There's a huge refinery just north of where my parents live.

Funny, it's still refining oil daily.
I am sure it is, question? Is it high capacity? AND regardless of it's production capacity...does it run at full capacity?

My point was that you had said "we stopped refining". If that's not what you were claiming, then I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

I don't know what "high capacity" means - it's 115000 barrels per day of Alaskan, Canadian, and some foreign crude, and my guess this isn't "high capacity" enough for your taste. It does run 24-7.
 
There's a huge refinery just north of where my parents live.

Funny, it's still refining oil daily.
I am sure it is, question? Is it high capacity? AND regardless of it's production capacity...does it run at full capacity?

My point was that you had said "we stopped refining". If that's not what you were claiming, then I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

I don't know what "high capacity" means - it's 115000 barrels per day of Alaskan, Canadian, and some foreign crude, and my guess this isn't "high capacity" enough for your taste. It does run 24-7.
Gee, SORRY! For international viability WE FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES STOPPED REFINING! The clarification help buddy? :):):)
 
I am sure it is, question? Is it high capacity? AND regardless of it's production capacity...does it run at full capacity?

My point was that you had said "we stopped refining". If that's not what you were claiming, then I'm sorry I misunderstood you.

I don't know what "high capacity" means - it's 115000 barrels per day of Alaskan, Canadian, and some foreign crude, and my guess this isn't "high capacity" enough for your taste. It does run 24-7.
Gee, SORRY! For international viability WE FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES STOPPED REFINING! The clarification help buddy? :):):)

I think it's probably fair to say that the Gulf region refineries have slowed down, but as far as I can tell the west coast refineries (and those in alaska) are working quite hard.

I just wanted to check the criticism a little - some sources, while they offer valid points, go over the top and exaggerate the degree to which we aren't doing what the critics think we ought to. This sounded like such a case.
 
If America exploited its oil reserves fully and opened lots of modern refineries it would make a very marginal difference to the price of oil in America.

If you pump oil and refine it in Texas you will not sell to a local gas station for less than you can export it for. There may be a small impact due to transport costs and an impact on world oil prices but this impact will be marginal at best.

The state cannot mandate that it be sold domesticly as:

1) As everyone points out how can the state tell people what to do in their businesses.
2) The domestic purchaser would just export it anyway
3) With the balance-of-payments defecit the USA has it needs the foreign currency anyway, and the USA's creditors would not accept such treatment.
4) It would just distort the markets in the short term, you cannot hold back the market and it would be counterproductive in the medium term

Oilo prices are a global problem if you are a buyer.
 
I don't know what the solution is, but it is NOT government controlled oil. The thing that scares me most right now is the idea that the Federal government thinks it has the right to even consider taking over the American Oil Industry to "bail out the people".

This is only one step going down a long line of eventual complete governmental control over every aspect of life. What maddens me the most is the lazy, complacent public that allows whatever power we the people have managed to retain to escheat to the government everytime we hit a snag. The government comes in and says "You know, we could probably fix that for you, as long as you'll give us the power." and the people acquiese. Now, the government has control over the aspect.

They keep doing it over and over again and slowly everything begins to fall under government control. I read the begining of that No Child Left Behind Act yesterday and almost fainted from the virtual hostage our own money is being used as to get State schools to let the Federal government have control. This is rediculous, and it needs to stop.

Any president, representative, or senator that thinks that the Government needs to take control of a PRIVATE sector of the economy needs to be removed from office, post-haste.
 
What the Govt. does not tell you. The US still has a LOT of oil. Texas, Alaska, Louisiana, Oklahoma to name a few. We still drill and pump. PROBLEM. Through geopolitical foolishness (as well as unfounded eco-concerns), in the mid 70's we STOPPED refining. The last high capacity refinery was built (I think) in '78! So what happens to all our oil, class? Any hands? Thats RIGHT! We sell it into the international markets and it is refined abroad. THEN we buy it back! At set international prices! If OPEC makes a commodity "call" on oil, then that is what we pay for it, including US crude (now, presto gasoline). Brethren. We have sold our birthrights for pottage! PRESSURE the Houses, BUILD HIGH CAPACITY REFINERIES....on our own soil....not abroad! The oil biz is complex, but , to simplify, we are only half in! We must take our own crude, and refine it ourselves. It will create jobs, lower the price at the pumps and get us out of bed with the Saudis.:2cents:

This sounds all wrong to me. International prices (for crude and refined gas) are 'set' by an international market. Those prices can go up or down.

Whatsmore, if it was refining capacity that was the key to high gas prices, then why does crude oil keep rising. If we had too little refining capacity, then we should see an increase in gas prices with a decrease in oil prices b/c the supply of crude would be greater than the refineries demand.

Some have postulated that we haven't started pumping more oil ourselves b/c we are waiting for the rest of the world's oil to run out. If this is true, it seems like bad business decision making. If the price of oil remains high over the next decade, then I believe we will see an increase in alternative energy vehicles. As these vehicles become more common, there must be a drop in demand for crude oil. In other words,, if I had oil in the ground, I would be drilling for it now while the price is high.
 
I don't know what the solution is, but it is NOT government controlled oil. The thing that scares me most right now is the idea that the Federal government thinks it has the right to even consider taking over the American Oil Industry to "bail out the people".

This is only one step going down a long line of eventual complete governmental control over every aspect of life. What maddens me the most is the lazy, complacent public that allows whatever power we the people have managed to retain to escheat to the government everytime we hit a snag. The government comes in and says "You know, we could probably fix that for you, as long as you'll give us the power." and the people acquiese. Now, the government has control over the aspect.

They keep doing it over and over again and slowly everything begins to fall under government control. I read the begining of that No Child Left Behind Act yesterday and almost fainted from the virtual hostage our own money is being used as to get State schools to let the Federal government have control. This is rediculous, and it needs to stop.

Any president, representative, or senator that thinks that the Government needs to take control of a PRIVATE sector of the economy needs to be removed from office, post-haste.
Friend my family has been in oil since the 30's. I know a "little" about the subject. Brother, I am NOT suggesting the Govt. take over American oil! I want pressure to create more refineries. As to the Brother who posted before you who stated that producing and refining our own Petrol would have NO effect at the pumps....that is bunk.:2cents:
 
I don't know what the solution is, but it is NOT government controlled oil. The thing that scares me most right now is the idea that the Federal government thinks it has the right to even consider taking over the American Oil Industry to "bail out the people".

This is only one step going down a long line of eventual complete governmental control over every aspect of life. What maddens me the most is the lazy, complacent public that allows whatever power we the people have managed to retain to escheat to the government everytime we hit a snag. The government comes in and says "You know, we could probably fix that for you, as long as you'll give us the power." and the people acquiese. Now, the government has control over the aspect.

They keep doing it over and over again and slowly everything begins to fall under government control. I read the begining of that No Child Left Behind Act yesterday and almost fainted from the virtual hostage our own money is being used as to get State schools to let the Federal government have control. This is rediculous, and it needs to stop.

Any president, representative, or senator that thinks that the Government needs to take control of a PRIVATE sector of the economy needs to be removed from office, post-haste.
Friend my family has been in oil since the 30's. I know a "little" about the subject. Brother, I am NOT suggesting the Govt. take over American oil! I want pressure to create more refineries. As to the Brother who posted before you who stated that producing and refining our own Petrol would have NO effect at the pumps....that is bunk.:2cents:

What you seem to be missing is that the crude oil and gas markets are GLOBAL. There is no way to force US producers of oil to sell to US refineries except that the Fed Gov. do it by law, which is a step toward taking over the oil industry.
 
I don't know what the solution is, but it is NOT government controlled oil. The thing that scares me most right now is the idea that the Federal government thinks it has the right to even consider taking over the American Oil Industry to "bail out the people".

This is only one step going down a long line of eventual complete governmental control over every aspect of life. What maddens me the most is the lazy, complacent public that allows whatever power we the people have managed to retain to escheat to the government everytime we hit a snag. The government comes in and says "You know, we could probably fix that for you, as long as you'll give us the power." and the people acquiese. Now, the government has control over the aspect.

They keep doing it over and over again and slowly everything begins to fall under government control. I read the begining of that No Child Left Behind Act yesterday and almost fainted from the virtual hostage our own money is being used as to get State schools to let the Federal government have control. This is rediculous, and it needs to stop.

Any president, representative, or senator that thinks that the Government needs to take control of a PRIVATE sector of the economy needs to be removed from office, post-haste.
Friend my family has been in oil since the 30's. I know a "little" about the subject. Brother, I am NOT suggesting the Govt. take over American oil! I want pressure to create more refineries. As to the Brother who posted before you who stated that producing and refining our own Petrol would have NO effect at the pumps....that is bunk.:2cents:

What you seem to be missing is that the crude oil and gas markets are GLOBAL. There is no way to force US producers of oil to sell to US refineries except that the Fed Gov. do it by law, which is a step toward taking over the oil industry.
Nope! In Texas, the Railway Commission is the "go to" for oil refining! SECOND, an oil company can have it's own refinery! It does not need to "sell"! We are blocked by the Govt. most can be done at the Private and State level. It ONLY goes "Global" when we shoot it abroad to be refined.:book2:
 
SAW AN EROR IN MY 1st POST! Sorry! OK, I stated that pressure shoud be put on the Govt. to build refineries. (This would imply Govt. control) MY BAD! Sorry, Uncle Etexas MEANT to say, lift some of the silly laws and regulations which prevent the building of new refineries by PRIVATE companies! Sorry. Thank you.:oops:
 
Friend my family has been in oil since the 30's. I know a "little" about the subject. Brother, I am NOT suggesting the Govt. take over American oil! I want pressure to create more refineries. As to the Brother who posted before you who stated that producing and refining our own Petrol would have NO effect at the pumps....that is bunk.:2cents:

What you seem to be missing is that the crude oil and gas markets are GLOBAL. There is no way to force US producers of oil to sell to US refineries except that the Fed Gov. do it by law, which is a step toward taking over the oil industry.
Nope! In Texas, the Railway Commission is the "go to" for oil refining! SECOND, an oil company can have it's own refinery! It does not need to "sell"! We are blocked by the Govt. most can be done at the Private and State level. It ONLY goes "Global" when we shoot it abroad to be refined.:book2:

Even if they refine their own oil, the Global Market still dictates how much they can sell it for.
 
Friend my family has been in oil since the 30's. I know a "little" about the subject. Brother, I am NOT suggesting the Govt. take over American oil! I want pressure to create more refineries. As to the Brother who posted before you who stated that producing and refining our own Petrol would have NO effect at the pumps....that is bunk.:2cents:

What you seem to be missing is that the crude oil and gas markets are GLOBAL. There is no way to force US producers of oil to sell to US refineries except that the Fed Gov. do it by law, which is a step toward taking over the oil industry.
Nope! In Texas, the Railway Commission is the "go to" for oil refining! SECOND, an oil company can have it's own refinery! It does not need to "sell"! We are blocked by the Govt. most can be done at the Private and State level. It ONLY goes "Global" when we shoot it abroad to be refined.:book2:

This website defines the Railway Commisions duties as, "It tracks all Texas oil and gas production, continues to hold monthly hearings and set allocations for production each month, and inspects wells and facilities for safety and compliance with other rules and regulations. It also works to protect the state’s water resources from contamination."

This website defines it as, "The Oil and Gas Division [of the railway commision] works to prevent the waste of oil, gas, and geothermal resources and to prevent the pollution of fresh water from oil and gas operations. The division holds statewide hearings on market demand and provides for equitable production among operators by establishing monthly production allowables. It issues drilling permits, reviews and approves oil and gas well completions, collects data on oil and gas operations, and promotes public safety"

In the short reading I did on the Railway Commission, I saw a lot about the regulation of crude oil production but nothing about the regulation of oil refining.
 
What you seem to be missing is that the crude oil and gas markets are GLOBAL. There is no way to force US producers of oil to sell to US refineries except that the Fed Gov. do it by law, which is a step toward taking over the oil industry.
Nope! In Texas, the Railway Commission is the "go to" for oil refining! SECOND, an oil company can have it's own refinery! It does not need to "sell"! We are blocked by the Govt. most can be done at the Private and State level. It ONLY goes "Global" when we shoot it abroad to be refined.:book2:

This website defines the Railway Commisions duties as, "It tracks all Texas oil and gas production, continues to hold monthly hearings and set allocations for production each month, and inspects wells and facilities for safety and compliance with other rules and regulations. It also works to protect the state’s water resources from contamination."

This website defines it as, "The Oil and Gas Division [of the railway commision] works to prevent the waste of oil, gas, and geothermal resources and to prevent the pollution of fresh water from oil and gas operations. The division holds statewide hearings on market demand and provides for equitable production among operators by establishing monthly production allowables. It issues drilling permits, reviews and approves oil and gas well completions, collects data on oil and gas operations, and promotes public safety"

In the short reading I did on the Railway Commission, I saw a lot about the regulation of crude oil production but nothing about the regulation of oil refining.
Well, I shall let you have the last word then. After all, who knows more, one who looks up articles on the web, or a man whose family has been involved in oil since the 1930's? Grace and Peace.
 
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