Pruned Sabbath Do's and Don'ts

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Scott1

Puritanboard Commissioner
Moderatorial Note: This thread has been reduced in size and opened for discussion on the practical topic of what you do and don't do in order to keep the 4th commandment. Stay on topic, and stay polite, or be blocked from participation on this thread.

Your Tyrannical Moderator,

Ruben




By God's grace, I look to the Ten Commandments as a "rule for life," including the Fourth Commandment. While I have not kept it perfectly, I have found great blessing in obedience.

I am wondering what you understand to be generally prohibited practices on the Lord's Day. I say "generally" to allow exception for doing these things when they come about by way of necessity and mercy.

In this thread, I would prefer to focus on how the Commandment is practically observed.

Can you ordinarily do these things on the Lord's Day and not violate the Fourth Commandment?

(answer yes/no/not sure to each and if you care to, give a scriptural reason).

1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
3) watching sports on television or internet
4) taking a nap
5) getting money out of an ATM
6) playing light recreation sports outside
7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
8) pleasure driving in the countryside
9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

PS In closing the thread, I'll give my understanding of each- a couple of these I'm thinking through now and am interested in how you all would apply Scripture.
 
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By God's grace, I look to the Ten Commandments as a "rule for life," including the Fourth Commandment. While I have not kept it perfectly, I have found great blessing in obedience.

I am wondering what you understand to be generally prohibited practices on the Lord's Day. I say "generally" to allow exception for doing these things when they come about by way of necessity and mercy.

In this thread, I would prefer to not get into a general discussion about the nature of the sabbath but to concentrate on how it applies, and how do we practically observe it.

Can you ordinarily do these things on the Lord's Day and not violate the Fourth Commandment? (answer yes/no/not sure and if you care to, give a scriptural reason).


1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
3) watching sports on television or internet
4) taking a nap
5) getting money out of an ATM
6) playing light recreation sports outside
7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
8) pleasure driving in the countryside
9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

I would say all of those things are permissible, unless it is at all possible to get out of working Sundays as a fireman. That being said, the Lord's Day should have worship and fellowship as the priorities, and none of of those activities listed above should be done at their expense.
 
And, if one is a fireman, than even the lack of proper worship is permissible because fires don't merely happen on non-church hours.
 
The only one on this list that I try to avoid on a Sunday is #2, eating out. There have been exceptions, though, and I think context is important.
 
Can you ordinarily do these things on the Lord's Day and not violate the Fourth Commandment? (answer yes/no/not sure and if you care to, give a scriptural reason).


1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
3) watching sports on television or internet
4) taking a nap
5) getting money out of an ATM
6) playing light recreation sports outside
7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
8) pleasure driving in the countryside
9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

I've not time to write at length, but just in answer to the above:

1) No --- this would be causing others to work on the Sabbath, which the Fourth Commandment forbids. When away from home, I do the same thing I do when I am at home . . . purchase whatever victuals I will need on the preceding Saturday (and even if passing the Sabbath in a place without normal cooking facilities, one can have ready bread and butter, fruit and other such foods which require no preparation).

2) No --- For the reasons outlined above.

3) No --- For we are to put aside all works and recreations, even those which may legitimately be done the other six days of the week, and give the day wholly unto the things of God, works of true necessity and mercy only excepted.

4) Yes, I believe naps certainly may be taken if needed to keep us fresh for the other duties and devotions of the day, though I should think moderation and watchfulness would be needed to ensure it did not become a habit of wiling away precious Sabbath hours in an unspiritual frame.

5) No --- The use of these machines requires their upkeep and re-filling on the Sabbath, which will require others to work most unnecessarily, as this may surely be done other days of the week.

6) No --- Reasoning as per (3) above.

7) No --- Reasoning as per (3) above.

8) I generally would not, though I am not sure I could state this particular one as an absolute. The day should be given wholly unto God, and so surely a pleasure drive which is nothing more than that would not be appropriate; if it were, however, used as a time of meditation upon God and upon His works, I would not see it as prohibited (so long as it did not necessitate re-filling the car with petrol, of course).

9) No --- Again, the day belongs wholly unto God, and so normal recreations which may be done the other days of the week should not be done on this day. There would be nothing wrong with eating outdoors any more than eating indoors, but the same standards would apply that all the time should be spent in devotion unto God and in spiritual conversation, and so playing the radio would not be appropriate.

10) A fireman's work is a true work of necessity, and so Scripture (and consequently our reformed confessions) allows for this to be attended to legitimately on the Sabbath. Of course I am sure a godly fireman would do all he could to ensure the rota did not take him away from the public worship too many times consecutively; and he would also strive to keep the day holy even while sitting at the fire station, and would not treat it the same as other work days.

I am sorry that the above may look somewhat blunt as I do not have time to write at length. The great positive blessings and joys of a well-spent Sabbath should always be kept at the forefront of our thoughts when discussing these matters, but at the same time I do think it very useful to discuss the practical applications (such as those you have brought up), since it is in practical ways that our obedience will be manifested and the blessings thereof enjoyed.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli
 
Yes, only because you may not have any other way not being at home. 1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
No 2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
No 3) watching sports on television or internet
Yes 4) taking a nap
? 5) getting money out of an ATM
No 6) playing light recreation sports outside
No 7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
? 8) pleasure driving in the countryside
No 9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
* 10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman
*Are you at liberty not to schedule it on Sundays?

I put ? marks where it would depend on the circumstances. If the drive is just for your own pleasure then no. Is the cash to buy and sell on the Sabbath then no. If for giving to the church then yes. The days is reserved to be kept holy and unto God. This means setting aside our regular pastimes and keeping the day wholly unto God.

KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
 
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Some examples of permissible actions on the Sabbath:


1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home

Travelling preachers or missionaries have to eat, soldiers too...etc. Hard to pack a cooler everywhere.


2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling

Family member is ill and you have to watch them or their kids. Need or emergency arises that is not mere frivolous time-spending. Fridge goes out and all meat spoils. HUndreds of such scenarios warrant that we at least acknowledge that permissible cases exist.


3) watching sports on television or internet

One can rest on the Sabbath.



4) taking a nap

Body needs rest.



5) getting money out of an ATM

The thing is on whether you use it or not and often it is a need.



6) playing light recreation sports outside

Family bonding or health benefits.



7) playing heavy recreation sports outside

Family bonding or health benefits.



8) pleasure driving in the countryside

See God's creation.


9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on

Gotta eat. Why not enjoy it?



10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

All workers want weekends off. Pleading special religious cases to get a disproportionate amount of weekends off is akin to sniveling. If soldiers and firemen have to be on duty then all should take equal shares of weekend duty.



As far as recreation goes; obviously this is a matter of conviction. I see no negative injunctions in the NT about the Sabbath...it's not even called the Sabbath anyway but is called the Lord's Day and the positive command to worship is given and not forsake our assembling.

If we do not allow tv or light sports, then neither can we allow for the reading of any fiction or anything for leisure that is not bible related. We cannot even allow walking in the woods unless we pay or make an effort to ponder the Creator. We simply cannot rest or be at leisure on our day of rest if we have to do nothing but pray or read the Bible.


Every Sunday we play with our kids extra, if tired take a nap and I go for a jog every Sunday. Once corporate worship is finished, we use the day to recharge our batteries. The day should not be a straight jacket; a "holy resting all that day" does not rule out recreation, which IS a form of mental rest and bodily recuperation.
 
Greetings again,

We must be absolutely clear on the first principles and then apply them to specific situations methodically, or else these discussions can just go around in circles (in a way most confusing to outside observers). The first principles on the Sabbath Day are very well summarised in paragraphs 7 and 8 of Chapter 21 of the Westminster Confession of Faith (the 1689 Baptist Confession being essentially identical on this point), with the crux being: "This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations, but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy."

This is the traditional reformed understanding of the teaching of the Scriptures on the Christian Sabbath, and when this teaching is rightly grasped, there can surely be no controversy on most of the specific matters raised in the opening post. So if one wants to argue that most of those things are permissible on the Sabbath, he should admit that this is actually because he does not accept the traditional reformed teaching on the subject . . . he disagrees with the first principles and, thus, no wonder that he comes to different conclusions on the specifics. It is not just a question of application, and it should not be insinuated that the traditional teaching itself leads one to a quagmire of difficulties of application. In fact, the traditional teaching presents to us the utmost clarity and a blessed straightforwardness which is to our great benefit.

With that in mind, I am not attempting to make any personal statements below, but simply wish to respond to some of the hypotheticals raised as I appreciate that many who read these threads (particularly those new to an understanding of the Sabbath) may be influenced by them at a very practical level.

Some examples of permissible actions on the Sabbath:


1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home

Travelling preachers or missionaries have to eat, soldiers too...etc. Hard to pack a cooler everywhere.

I think the supposed difficulties on this issue are largely manufactured. I have been away from home on the Sabbath many a time, and there is not the slightest inconvenience in procuring a limited number of non-perishable provisions on the Saturday to take one through the Sabbath. There are all sorts of foods that require neither preparation nor a "cooler" if the facilities are not available --- bread, scones, butter, bananas, apples (and many other fruits and vegetables), cured meats, tuna, marmite . . . the list could be endless, but the point is that there is clearly no "necessity" in eating out while travelling, as long as we conscientiously order our affairs beforehand.

3) watching sports on television or internet

One can rest on the Sabbath.

The "rest" of the Sabbath should not be equated with common amusements, but is a complete spiritual rest from the works and recreations which take up so much of our time the rest of the week. Watching sports is obviously not a work of necessity or mercy and, thus, the Confession (based on the Scriptures) is clear that it is not properly done on the Sabbath. Let me quote the Puritan Thomas Vincent on this point (which would apply to playing sports as well):

"Q. 5. May we not lawfully recreate ourselves upon the Sabbath-day, especially since the day is appointed to be a day of rest from our toiling labour in the week?

A. We may and ought to recreate our minds on the Sabbath.day in the worship of God, we being bound to call and make in this respect the Sabbath our delight. But we ought to forbear recreating our minds with carnal delight, either by words or deeds, which we may do oa other days; and much more we ought to forbear recreating our bodies by sports and pastimes, though after the public exercise of God's worship be over. "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."— Isa. 58:13, 14."


5) getting money out of an ATM

The thing is on whether you use it or not and often it is a need.

Whether a machine is on or not is of less concern to me than whether its use on the Sabbath leads to bank employees needing to check or re-fill it during the Sabbath. But again, is it ever really a "necessity" to withdraw money on the Sabbath? The only reason we would need money on the Sabbath would be to give it to the Church (if one makes offering in cash) or in some instances to pass money to brethren for some reason or another. But why can this not be done on Saturday, ordering one's common affairs beforehand, as the Confession states?


9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on

Gotta eat. Why not enjoy it?

This is, of course, not the issue. We do certainly eat with joy and thanksgiving on the Sabbath day (as on other days) and, as I said above, there is nothing wrong with eating outdoors. The point is that during the meal (whether outdoors or indoors), we are to keep the day holy unto the Lord and thus avoid worldly conversation and amusements during the meal . . . and, specifically, I do not think it would be appropriate to listen to secular radio on the Sabbath day, whether at a picnic or otherwise.

I see no negative injunctions in the NT about the Sabbath...it's not even called the Sabbath anyway but is called the Lord's Day and the positive command to worship is given and not forsake our assembling.

It would not matter if the term "Sabbath" was not expressly applied to the Lord's Day in the New Testament, since clearly there is continuity between the Old and New Testament Sabbaths and the Fourth Commandment governs the Lord's Day. The Lord's Day is the Christian Sabbath, and I think it very beneficial to use the term Sabbath to remind us of the connection with the Fourth Commandment. I would also point out just a couple of verses in the Gospels which support the term's continuing use:

Mark 2.27-28: "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.

Matthew 20.24: "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" (proving that Christ's followers would still be observing the Sabbath day at the time of the tribulation spoken of in this passage).

If we do not allow tv or light sports, then neither can we allow for the reading of any fiction or anything for leisure that is not bible related. We cannot even allow walking in the woods unless we pay or make an effort to ponder the Creator. We simply cannot rest or be at leisure on our day of rest if we have to do nothing but pray or read the Bible.

Quite right that secular fiction or other secular leisures would not be appropriate, as the day belongs wholly unto God and we are to put aside our own common pleasures and pastimes during this day to be given more wholly unto worship. I do not wish to pass judgment on the motives of anyone's heart, but I must say that I find the insinuation of the above statement most troubling. You (perhaps unintentionally) make it sound as though spiritual exercises are something of a chore, and people will not be able to bear them unless interspersed with secular enjoyments here and there. But, surely, the greatest "rest" is indeed a resting in Christ, being in sweet meditation on the things of His kingdom and enjoying a foretaste of that eternal Sabbath for which we wait. There will be no trivialities such as novels, football matches, radio programmes or the like during that eternal Sabbath, so if our hearts are so bound to them that we cannot even endure 24 hours without them while in this life, I am afraid there may be something slightly amiss in our priorities. Simply put, these kinds of things cannot intrude into the Lord's holy day without taking away from it and the blessings for which it was designed. The Sabbath was made for man and the proper spiritual observing of it is a tremendous refreshment to man. We must be careful that worldly ideas of "recreation" do not replace what the Bible actually means by "rest". There is a tremendous variety of spiritual activities and services which may properly be done on the Sabbath (and there is, of course, room also for strolling and napping if done in a holy frame), I have never suggested that every hour outside public worship must be spent in a dark room reading a systematic theology. I find the Sabbath such a blessing as it is (and the hours of it few enough as they are), that I simply cannot fathom the idea that any other "recreations" would need to be brought in.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli
 
I have another to add, and please don't take this as sarcasm and disrespectful, but the list on these could be endless, which is why I am just posing one that may seem ridiculous... should we bathe ourselves on the sabbath? In keeping with some of the reasoning on this thread, it is something which could be postponed to another day, running water contributes to utilities employees working, and the day belongs wholly to God. Again, please don't misconstrue my attitude, I am just trying to illustrate my point.

Just to address the issue of utilities (such as water and electricity) generally, I would say that these are quite different from the other matters raised in the opening post, and we should be careful that these queries do not become a means of calling everything about Sabbath observance into question, or make it seem as though the teaching of the Christian Sabbath is some labyrinthine doctrine which is so difficult to apply that in the end it must simply be left to each person to decide for himself what is acceptable. (I am certainly not saying that is what you were doing, by the way).

I believe that utilities may properly be used on the Sabbath because:

(1) My understanding is that there is no incremental need for more employees to be working at the facilities based on how much of the utility is being used at any particular time and, thus, my use of water or electricity is not itself causing anyone to work; and

(2) Any work that does need to be done at utility companies on the Sabbath is in the nature of keeping watch on certain processes which must be kept running all the time (and are not affected by the amount of the utility being used on the day), and are required for, amongst other things, hospital equipment, police communications, traffic lights and other things which could legitimately be classified as necessities. Thus, arguably, the performance of the minimal work needed to keep the public utilities operating is itself a work of necessity.

If it could be shown that personal increased use of utilities actually did require extra personnel to work on the Sabbath, I would indeed curtail my usage.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli
 
And if one truly wanted to honor the Sabbath, wouldn't he start observing it at sunset Saturday night? Seriously...

Just with regard to the "sundown to sundown" issue (though I know this might be slightly off topic), I think Thomas Vincent is, again, most helpful on this subject:

"Q. 6. When doth this holy day or Sabbath begin, in the evening before, or that morning from midnight?
A. In the evening before, by virtue of that word, "Remember to keep holy the seventh day," we ought to begin to prepare for the Sabbath; but the Sabbath itself doth not begin until the evening is spent, and midnight thereof over, and the morning after twelve of the clock beginneth.

Q. 7. Doth not the Scriptures require us to begin the Sabbath in the evening, when it is said, "The evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen. 1:5); and, "From even unto even shall ye celebrate your Sabbath?"— Lev. 33:32.
A. 1. It doth not follow that the evening of the first day was before the morning, though it be first spoken of; no more than that Shem and Ham were elder than Japheth, because they are reckoned up in order before him. "The sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth (Gen. 10:1); and yet Japheth is called the elder brother. — Verse 21. But Moses, reckoning up the works of God on the first day, retires back from the evening to the morning, and saith, they both make up the first day. Surely in the account of all nations, and in Scripture account too, the morning is before the evening. "The same day at evening, being the first day of the week, came Jesus," &c. (John 20:10), where the evening following this day, and on the evening before the day, is called the evening of the same day. 2. That place in Leviticus, concerning the celebration of the Sabbath from evening to evening, hath a reference only unto a ceremonial Sabbath, or day of atonement, on the tenth day of the seventh month, wherein the Israelites were to afflict their souls; but it hath not a reference unto the weekly Sabbath.

Q. 8. How do you prove by the Scripture that the weekly Sabbath doth begin in the morning?
A. That the weekly Sabbath is to begin in the morning, is evident— 1. by Exod. 16:23: "This is that which the Lord hath said, to-morrow is the rest of the holy Sabbath unto the Lord." If the Sabbath had begun in the evening, Moses would have said, This evening doth begin the rest of the Sabbath; but he saith, To-morrow is the rest of the Sabbath. 2. Most evidently it doth appear that the Sabbath doth begin in the morning, and not in the evening, by Matt. 28:1: "In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre." If the end of the Jewish Sabbath were not in the evening, when it began to grow dark towards the night, but when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, which must needs be towards the morning, and in no rational sense can be interpreted of the evening, then the Sabbath did also begin in the morning, and not in the evening, for the beginning and ending must needs be about the same time. But the former is evident from this place, concerning the Jewish Sabbath's ending; and therefore, consequently concerning its beginning. 3. Further, it is also said in this place, that the first day, which is the Christian Sabbath, did begin towards the dawning, as it grew on towards light, and not as it grew on towards darkness; therefore the Christian Sabbath doth begin in the morning. 4. Moreover, the resurrection of Christ, in commemoration of which the Christian Sabbath is observed, was not in the evening, but early in the morning ("Now when Jesus was risen early, the first day of the week "— Mark 16:9); therefore the Sabbath is to begin in the morning. 5. If the Sabbath did begin in the evening before, it would end in the evening after; and it would be lawful for men to work in their callings, or to go to their recreations, on the evening of the Sabbath, which surely would be very unsuitable after the holy employments of that day."

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli
 
Well, as you will read on other threads, I am coming from the reformed "baptist" perspective, so my church doesn't teach a Sabbath day set aside to God. THAT is a topic I am still studying! But my strongest reading on this has been Jonathan Edward's Resolutions. He wouldn't even allow himself to make light (joke) if he didn't believe the situation would bring Glory to God. So I would answer the questions based on his resolutions. The answers would match with Jie-Huli's answers I believe. I do think that this thread (as any covering a tough topic) can easily slide into a pro/con Sabbath discussion. The thing that stands out is the reasoning and attitude on the Sabbath. By the time of Jesus the Pharisees and the like had become experts in ways around the Sabbath. Don't travel too far from home, put dirt from your home in your pocket! Etc. They were "technically" honoring the Sabbath, but it wasn't because they wished to honor God on that day, it was a day of inconvenience to their lives. Their hearts weren't for the Lord. I think once the Sabbath becomes a list of do's/don'ts for you, you are on the same course. From reading Edwards and many other Puritans, they would abstain from most of the things above, only because they couldn't do these without losing focus on God. It is hard to glorify the Lord while watching a sport or playing, because your mind is elsewhere. I don't think there is only this way or that to keep your mind on the Lord. That's why a drive through a beautiful parkway to marvel at the Lord's creation could be ok. I don't believe you can carry the part of making someone possibly work to an extreme. Almost anything we do, could cause someone to work. Driving (car repair if broken down), using any electricity (power plants take workers), same with water, etc. But here again there is a difference in purposefully causing (buying, etc) and possibly causing (electricity, water, driving). Once again it is a heart issue. I always worry about a strong stand on possible gray matters to as not be a stumbling block for someone's faith. That's my input as I am learnin'!
 
I have another to add, and please don't take this as sarcasm and disrespectful, but the list on these could be endless, which is why I am just posing one that may seem ridiculous... should we bathe ourselves on the sabbath? In keeping with some of the reasoning on this thread, it is something which could be postponed to another day, running water contributes to utilities employees working, and the day belongs wholly to God. Again, please don't misconstrue my attitude, I am just trying to illustrate my point.

Just to address the issue of utilities (such as water and electricity) generally, I would say that these are quite different from the other matters raised in the opening post, and we should be careful that these queries do not become a means of calling everything about Sabbath observance into question, or make it seem as though the teaching of the Christian Sabbath is some labyrinthine doctrine which is so difficult to apply that in the end it must simply be left to each person to decide for himself what is acceptable. (I am certainly not saying that is what you were doing, by the way).

I believe that utilities may properly be used on the Sabbath because:

(1) My understanding is that there is no incremental need for more employees to be working at the facilities based on how much of the utility is being used at any particular time and, thus, my use of water or electricity is not itself causing anyone to work; and

(2) Any work that does need to be done at utility companies on the Sabbath is in the nature of keeping watch on certain processes which must be kept running all the time (and are not affected by the amount of the utility being used on the day), and are required for, amongst other things, hospital equipment, police communications, traffic lights and other things which could legitimately be classified as necessities. Thus, arguably, the performance of the minimal work needed to keep the public utilities operating is itself a work of necessity.

If it could be shown that personal increased use of utilities actually did require extra personnel to work on the Sabbath, I would indeed curtail my usage.

Kind regards,

Jie-Huli



Jie-Huli; Thanks for the responses. They are very consistent.
 
Sometimes I feel that Joshua is following me around correcting my inconsistencies... (like the 80's Police... every move I make, every step I take he is watching me). Thanks brother, I value that thoroughness very much. I did not qualify my statement. MY church while being Reformed Baptist/Non denominational, doesn't teach a Sabbatarian view. :) Even though the historical perspective has been a Sabbatarian view. I have felt convicted by the Spirit of this though, I believe. I, like Reformed Baptist above, am studying more and more trying to grasp it all. I have read arguments on both sides, and I lean toward a Sabbatarian view. Mostly because so many of the men I respect seem so deeply convicted on it. But I continue to study... Enjoying the thread. Thanks all for the input. :applause:

Hey brother, if you are interested in starting a thread on the subject, I would like to know what you have been learning. I have emailed my pastor on this subject again for his thoughts as well. Our church is 1689 LBCF and is Sabbatarian. I just have not seen this in the Scripture yet. I don't really want to debate the subject, just learn..
 
1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home

Yes.

2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling

No.

3) watching sports on television or internet

No.

4) taking a nap

Yes.

5) getting money out of an ATM

Yes.

6) playing light recreation sports outside

Yes.

7) playing heavy recreation sports outside

No.

8) pleasure driving in the countryside

Yes.

9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on

No.

10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

Not sure.
 
What is your scriptural understanding?

Can you ordinarily do these things on the Lord's Day and not violate the Fourth Commandment?

(answer yes/no/not sure to each and if you care to, give a scriptural reason).


1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
3) watching sports on television or internet
4) taking a nap
5) getting money out of an ATM
6) playing light recreation sports outside
7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
8) pleasure driving in the countryside
9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman
 
I freely admit that there are inconsistencies in my sabbath keeping. I am quite happy to use electricity/water, surf the net, have the radio wake me up in the morning, listen to the news. But I don't sit down to watch a movie or a TV show. When I was a student living in Glasgow or Edinburgh I would take the bus or train to church or to visit friends. I wouldn't have taken the bus or train for a 7 hour journey to/from my home village, except in an emergency.
I think that it is one thing to go out to eat, quite another to go the mall or to the grocery store for your weekly supplies. Yet, in an emergency I would go to the pharmacy for medication.
I guess that there are inconsistencies in all our lives and in many areas of our Christian walk. As always, there are circumstances that occur in our lives that cause us to do what we would not ordinarily do.
These are (some of) my inconsistencies and until I am given greater light or conviction on these things, this will be my practice. What I think is needed from all of us (especially from me) is to show grace to our brothers and sisters whose inconsistencies are different from ours.
I am also required to work every 3rd Saturday and Sunday. I never shedule myself to work more Sundays than I am required to.To be honest, I hate it and would rather not work a Sunday. I know that I do a job that is well within even the most traditional understanding of necessity and mercy, it's just that I would rather spend every Sunday at church. On those weekends that I work, I try and rest on another day and listen to some sermons online, but it just does not compare to being at church with God's people.
 
As a general rule of thumb, I think if a task or strenuous activity can be done on a day other than the Lord's day, then it should be done then. Likewise the same with most amusements, particularly ones that detract from fellowship and family, i.e. television and videogames.

The reasoning behind this is we are commanded to remember the Sabbath day, and to keep it Holy, i.e. set apart. Ergo, in avoiding these things, I feel I am keeping it set apart.
 
having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on

If you're at a PCA after church get together there's pretty much going to be alcohol there. If the people next to you in the park have their radio on would anyone move?
 
1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home

No - absolutely no need to if prepared beforehand. When I was considering a job 100 miles from home my wife and I spent the day at a church morning and evening, and had a pre-packed picnic in the afternoon.

2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling

No - same reason. There was once that we had just moved house, and even though I felt that I could justify eating out - because we had no food prepared and weren't unpacked - we didn't, not wanting to set a bad example to anyone else.

3) watching sports on television or internet

Yes and No. Do I think that it is absolutely wrong to watch sports on a Sunday? No. Would I watch sports? No - because it may be a relaxing leisure activity but I have six other days to do that and more importantly it takes my mind away from the things of God. I can remember sitting in church on a Sunday night ruing the fact that my team had lost during the preaching of the word. How pathetic that was.

4) taking a nap

Yes within reason. The Lord's Day is a blessed day and it may well be the only day we could ever grab a little shuteye during the day. With me, the nap is usually unintentional, it happens when I sit down with a book or listen to something edifying. I don't feel guilty about it though. Of course, if there are important works of neccessity or mercy to be done then napping would be selfish.

5) getting money out of an ATM

Yes. But I never would because I would never have a reason to. If I want to put money in the offering I have it in advance or write a cheque. I don't believe that taking money from a machine makes another human being work. Indeed, I have never seen a cash machine being filled on a Sunday. I would surmise that only those in shopping centres etc have to be refilled.

6) playing light recreation sports outside

Yes, with my son if he wants to play. Otherwise, no, I've got better things to do. Wholesome activity for the body is good, and with energetic children, quite neccessary, to enable them to pay due attention to ministry etc. I'd prefer taking a family walk together and talking about God's creation to playing sports, though. Excercise mind and body!

7) playing heavy recreation sports outside

No need.

8) pleasure driving in the countryside

Yes, I'd be ok with this, it gives a chance to survey God's creation and to talk (so long as the top isn't down ;-)) But personally I'd call it a waste of fuel.

9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on

Picnic yes, wine yes, radio - no. We talk to each other too little as it is. Let this day be special and unhindered by the world's agenda and concerns.

10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman

No. Simply. Any Christian who chooses to work Sundays over and above his/her basic commitment is 'forsaking the assembling of themselves together' with the rest of the church. Of course, in some professions it is neccessary to work some sundays. But not voluntarily.


This is a very subjective exercise, I have to say!
 
As a general rule of thumb, I think if a task or strenuous activity can be done on a day other than the Lord's day, then it should be done then. Likewise the same with most amusements, particularly ones that detract from fellowship and family, i.e. television and videogames.

The reasoning behind this is we are commanded to remember the Sabbath day, and to keep it Holy, i.e. set apart. Ergo, in avoiding these things, I feel I am keeping it set apart.

Jesus told the lame man to pick up his mat and walk. He could have just told the man to stand up - he could have came back after the Sabbath to retrieve his mat. But Jesus told him to pick up a burden.

But this man's labor was not a secular-aimed labor but his efforts glorified God.














Also, the whole eating out thing. Any rule given must fit the whole world and in many places pre-packaged food is harder to get and some sort of labor must be done to eat by someone.


As for as playing sports and recreations, recreations are a form of rest and can be aimed godward in that one enjoys the blessings of the day with family as they play.
 
The sabbath must be kept in the heart. Otherwise it will become a legalistic mess like it did for the pharisee. There are duties to be performed I agree, but one must search his own heart to make sure that he sanctifies the day unto the Lord and does not use it as a tool to judge others by. I embraced the confessional sabbath position about a year ago after much wrestling with the issue. It is now the highlight of my week. If a person comes to see it as something that is for thier soul as well as thier body they will rejoice in it and sanctify it unto the Lord and a list of do's and don't's will not be needed. You will know in your soul if the day is properly observed.
 
The sabbath must be kept in the heart. Otherwise it will become a legalistic mess like it did for the pharisee. There are duties to be performed I agree, but one must search his own heart to make sure that he sanctifies the day unto the Lord and does not use it as a tool to judge others by. I embraced the confessional sabbath position about a year ago after much wrestling with the issue. It is now the highlight of my week. If a person comes to see it as something that is for thier soul as well as thier body they will rejoice in it and sanctify it unto the Lord and a list of do's and don't's will not be needed. You will know in your soul if the day is properly observed.

I too, agree the Confessional position summarizes the doctrine of Scripture on this although it is difficult to keep. It constantly reveals the sin in me because I really do not want to set aside time in thought, word and deed to worship and commune with God- sometimes my flesh resents it. But as I try, by God's Grace, I too have found it to be a "highlight." There is blessing in obedience.

So, then, in light of the ten (10) practices in the original post- which are you finding you try to do or not do and maybe you can explain scripturally why?
 
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In preparing to close this very important, thread, I am reminded that we, as Reformed Christians, have some very specific guidance, and solid exegesis to guide us on application of the Fourth Commandment:

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH XXI. 8.
This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39]
 
Scripture proofs, Westminster Confession of Faith, xxi 8.


[38] exo 20:8 remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exo 16:23 and he said unto them, this is that which the lord hath said, to morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the lord: Bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. 25 and moses said, eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the lord: To day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 29 see, for that the lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 so the people rested on the seventh day. 31:15 six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the lord: Whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 wherefore the children of israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 it is a sign between me and the children of israel for ever: For in six days the lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. Isa 58:13 if thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words. Neh 13:15 in those days saw i in judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into jerusalem on the sabbath day: And i testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals. 16 there dwelt men of tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of judah, and in jerusalem. 17 then i contended with the nobles of judah, and said unto them, what evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day? 18 did not your fathers thus, and did not our god bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? Yet ye bring more wrath upon israel by profaning the sabbath. 19 and it came to pass, that when the gates of jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, i commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: And some of my servants set i at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day. 21 then i testified against them, and said unto them, why lodge ye about the wall? If ye do so again, i will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no more on the sabbath. 22 and i commanded the levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should come and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, o my god, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.
[39] isa 58:13 if thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words.
 
Based on Scripture and from it, the summary of the doctrine contained in the Westminster Standards, Here are my answers to the original question. I will qualify and explain my reasoning in another post:

Can you ordinarily do these things on the Lord's Day and not violate the Fourth Commandment?

1) eating out at restaurants while traveling away from home
Yes

2) eating out at restaurants while not traveling
Yes

3) watching sports on television or internet
No

4) taking a nap
Yes

5) getting money out of an ATM
No

6) playing light recreation sports outside
No

7) playing heavy recreation sports outside
No

8) pleasure driving in the countryside
No

9) having an outdoor picnic with wine and radio on
No

10) regularly scheduling your work on Sundays if you are a fireman
Yes
 
Personally, I think the Sabbath was originally given in order to restrain man from working all 7 days within the week. It protected man in the Israelite society from the overburden of duties from his master. Yet today, in our lazy culture, we often view it as a burden and end up examining how much restriction we ought to place on certain enjoyments that are given by God. I think we often apply it in a backwards sort of way, when it was never intended as such.

Blessings!
 
Personally, I think the Sabbath was originally given in order to restrain man from working all 7 days within the week. It protected man in the Israelite society from the overburden of duties from his master. Yet today, in our lazy culture, we often view it as a burden and end up examining how much restriction we ought to place on certain enjoyments that are given by God. I think we often apply it in a backwards sort of way, when it was never intended as such.

Blessings!

:ditto:

Well said! I think we often forget that the Sabbath was given as a gift, and was by no means intended to be burdensome. I stand by my orginal statement: as long as worshipping Him and fellowship are the priorities of the day, all else is permitted. Otherwise, in my opinion, we start down a Pharisaical path....
 
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