Psalm 69: Prophecy of Christ? Imprecatory? vs. Luke 23:34

Status
Not open for further replies.

ServantofGod

Puritan Board Junior
Psa 69:9 For zeal for your house has consumed me, and the reproaches of those who reproach you have fallen on me.
Psa 69:10 When I wept and humbled my soul with fasting, it became my reproach.
Psa 69:11 When I made sackcloth my clothing, I became a byword to them.
Psa 69:12 I am the talk of those who sit in the gate, and the drunkards make songs about me.
Psa 69:13 But as for me, my prayer is to you, O LORD. At an acceptable time, O God, in the abundance of your steadfast love answer me in your saving faithfulness.
Psa 69:14 Deliver me from sinking in the mire; let me be delivered from my enemies and from the deep waters.
Psa 69:15 Let not the flood sweep over me, or the deep swallow me up, or the pit close its mouth over me.
Psa 69:16 Answer me, O LORD, for your steadfast love is good; according to your abundant mercy, turn to me.
Psa 69:17 Hide not your face from your servant; for I am in distress; make haste to answer me.
Psa 69:18 Draw near to my soul, redeem me; ransom me because of my enemies!
Psa 69:19 You know my reproach, and my shame and my dishonor; my foes are all known to you.
Psa 69:20 Reproaches have broken my heart, so that I am in despair. I looked for pity, but there was none, and for comforters, but I found none.
Psa 69:21 They gave me poison for food, and for my thirst they gave me sour wine to drink.
Psa 69:22 Let their own table before them become a snare; and when they are at peace, let it become a trap.
Psa 69:23 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they cannot see, and make their loins tremble continually.
Psa 69:24 Pour out your indignation upon them, and let your burning anger overtake them.
Psa 69:25 May their camp be a desolation; let no one dwell in their tents.
Psa 69:26 For they persecute him whom you have struck down, and they recount the pain of those you have wounded.
Psa 69:27 Add to them punishment upon punishment; may they have no acquittal from you.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.
Psa 69:29 But I am afflicted and in pain; let your salvation, O God, set me on high!

The underlined verses, esp. 69:9(cf. John 2:17), seem to point to this Psalm looking forward to Christ, and His sufferings. My question: If this is a Psalm of the suffering of Christ, how can we view verses 24-28, in light of Luke 23:24:
And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

In other words, in the Psalm, Christ(theoretically) is calling the for the wrath of God to be poured on those who cause His sufferings, whereas, calling for mercy to be displayed to them during the time of His dying, in the Luke passage. Any thoughts?
 

Contra_Mundum

Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger
Staff member
Ian,
It helps to remember that the OT did not greatly distinguish between the first and second works of Christ (which we often, but perhaps not felicitously, divide between his "comings"). Which works are these? Salvation and Judgment.

The truth is that they both are inaugurated in his first advent. John the Baptist wasn't kidding when he spoke of he who was coming with his winnowing fork in his hand, to burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Salvation and Judgment both arrive in Jesus, it is simply that in the first coming, Salvation is most visible and Judgment is established but neither initiated generally, nor consummated.

When Christ was raised from the dead, the work of Salvation was objectively settled. Personally, it remains to be appropriated for many, and finalized in their glorification, and consummated in the Resurrection and Last Judgment. Similarly, in the Resurrection of Christ Judgment is settled as well; it only remains to see its results.

But meanwhile, there is a window of repentance, execution of sentence is stayed for the sake of those who must still be forgiven. Personally and individually, people are facing Judgment every single day. Their rebellion (in solidarity with Adam) was ruled a Failure when Jesus came alive out of the Tomb. And when they die, it is before Christ they are judged both interim (where they abide in hell), and waiting for final destruction.

Therefore, regarding the Psalm, both aspects of the work--or both works--are in view. It isn't proper really to separate them, because neither the Old Testament nor the New separates them. Nor in any appreciable sense, other than 3-days in the Tomb, are Salvation and Judgment separated chronologically. Certainly Christ is not waiting to take his seat as Judge until the Last Day.

The forgiveness Jesus offers even as the soldiers cruelly crucify him, which I think he truly gave them--I think Jesus intended to save many of the ones who personally took part in his murder--is ultimately for the elect who force him (from our standpoint) to the cross. It is especially for the Gentiles whose pitch-black ignorance (though it is culpable) is pitiable.

However, for the unrepentant, both Jew and Gentile, there is no forgiveness, nor does Jesus offer it to them. Their Judgment is literally around the corner, and Jesus told the Council as much, Mark 14:62.
 

ServantofGod

Puritan Board Junior
To reiterate what you are saying:

The judgment pronounced by Christ in this Psalm, has reprobate mankind as it's recipient, and is not limited(nor even targeted) toward those on the day of Christ's humiliation and crucifixion. Correct?
 

Contra_Mundum

Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger
Staff member
I would say yes, basically, when you are thinking of this Psalm in its prophetic modality. There were those (perhaps exemplified by Caiaphas, who few think was ever saved) for whom these sentiments are hardly different from that which Jesus said directly to him in his trial. I don't think that Jesus' forgiving words on the cross are any less precisely directed to the elect.
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
Psa 69:9 For zeal for your house has consumed me, and the reproaches of those who reproach you have fallen on me.
Psa 69:10 When I wept and humbled my soul with fasting, it became my reproach.
Psa 69:11 When I made sackcloth my clothing, I became a byword to them.
Psa 69:12 I am the talk of those who sit in the gate, and the drunkards make songs about me.
Psa 69:13 But as for me, my prayer is to you, O LORD. At an acceptable time, O God, in the abundance of your steadfast love answer me in your saving faithfulness.
Psa 69:14 Deliver me from sinking in the mire; let me be delivered from my enemies and from the deep waters.
Psa 69:15 Let not the flood sweep over me, or the deep swallow me up, or the pit close its mouth over me.
Psa 69:16 Answer me, O LORD, for your steadfast love is good; according to your abundant mercy, turn to me.
Psa 69:17 Hide not your face from your servant; for I am in distress; make haste to answer me.
Psa 69:18 Draw near to my soul, redeem me; ransom me because of my enemies!
Psa 69:19 You know my reproach, and my shame and my dishonor; my foes are all known to you.
Psa 69:20 Reproaches have broken my heart, so that I am in despair. I looked for pity, but there was none, and for comforters, but I found none.
Psa 69:21 They gave me poison for food, and for my thirst they gave me sour wine to drink.
Psa 69:22 Let their own table before them become a snare; and when they are at peace, let it become a trap.
Psa 69:23 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they cannot see, and make their loins tremble continually.
Psa 69:24 Pour out your indignation upon them, and let your burning anger overtake them.
Psa 69:25 May their camp be a desolation; let no one dwell in their tents.
Psa 69:26 For they persecute him whom you have struck down, and they recount the pain of those you have wounded.
Psa 69:27 Add to them punishment upon punishment; may they have no acquittal from you.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living; let them not be enrolled among the righteous.
Psa 69:29 But I am afflicted and in pain; let your salvation, O God, set me on high!

The underlined verses, esp. 69:9(cf. John 2:17), seem to point to this Psalm looking forward to Christ, and His sufferings. My question: If this is a Psalm of the suffering of Christ, how can we view verses 24-28, in light of Luke 23:24:
And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

In other words, in the Psalm, Christ(theoretically) is calling the for the wrath of God to be poured on those who cause His sufferings, whereas, calling for mercy to be displayed to them during the time of His dying, in the Luke passage. Any thoughts?

Jesus didn't pray for Judas, and Psalm 109 has reference to him. I would say that the imprecatory Psalms tend to indicate that if Christ does not pray for your salvation, He does pray for your destruction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top