Questions from the 1689 Regarding the Sabbath Day

[KMK]

Samuel E. Waldron, A Modern Exposition of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, pp. 272-276:

III. Its Appointed Day

The Confession first mentions the natural necessity of an appointed day of worship. The Confession teaches that the law of nature requires an appointed day for worship. First, God must be worshipped publicly and corporately by men. Second, such public and corporate worship requires a publicly and corporately agreed upon proportion of time. Such a proportion of time must be appointed by God, because the only alternative (that men should appoint it) would violate the prerogatives of God in his worship.

Waldron hits the nail on the head! Do you love to worship God corporately with your brothers and sisters in Christ? Then you need a day wherein you can do that. That is why God gives us a Sabbath! The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It is a gift to all of those who desire to worship Him corporately. It is a natural necessity because without it, there will be no regular corporate worship.

BTW, Andrew, where did you obtain an electronic version of Waldron's book?

 

[Reformed Baptist]

Samuel E. Waldron, A Modern Exposition of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, pp. 272-276:

III. Its Appointed Day

The Confession first mentions the natural necessity of an appointed day of worship. The Confession teaches that the law of nature requires an appointed day for worship. First, God must be worshipped publicly and corporately by men. Second, such public and corporate worship requires a publicly and corporately agreed upon proportion of time. Such a proportion of time must be appointed by God, because the only alternative (that men should appoint it) would violate the prerogatives of God in his worship.

Waldron hits the nail on the head! Do you love to worship God corporately with your brothers and sisters in Christ? Then you need a day wherein you can do that. That is why God gives us a Sabbath! The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It is a gift to all of those who desire to worship Him corporately. It is a natural necessity because without it, there will be no regular corporate worship.

BTW, Andrew, where did you obtain an electronic version of Waldron's book?

I have his book, Read it. It doesn't convince me at all.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

No; understanding of the word of God is what I was after; understanding can be faulty and yet conscience still binds to it.

I will try. But in the end my conscience will be bound to the Word of God.

I think you mean "bound to my understanding of"; as was Owen certainly and as we all should be.

No, I mean conscience...as in those great words spoken by Luther.

Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Holy Scriptures or by evident reason-for I can believe neither pope nor councils alone, as it is clear that they have erred repeatedly and contradicted themselves-I consider myself convicted by the testimony of Holy Scripture, which is my basis; my conscience is captive to the Word of God. Thus I cannot and will not recant, because acting against one's conscience is neither safe nor sound. God help me. Amen.

And better words yet, "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:" 1 Tim 1:5

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Samuel E. Waldron, A Modern Exposition of the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, pp. 272-276:

III. Its Appointed Day

The Confession first mentions the natural necessity of an appointed day of worship. The Confession teaches that the law of nature requires an appointed day for worship. First, God must be worshipped publicly and corporately by men. Second, such public and corporate worship requires a publicly and corporately agreed upon proportion of time. Such a proportion of time must be appointed by God, because the only alternative (that men should appoint it) would violate the prerogatives of God in his worship.

Waldron hits the nail on the head! Do you love to worship God corporately with your brothers and sisters in Christ? Then you need a day wherein you can do that. That is why God gives us a Sabbath! The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It is a gift to all of those who desire to worship Him corporately. It is a natural necessity because without it, there will be no regular corporate worship.

BTW, Andrew, where did you obtain an electronic version of Waldron's book?

I don't have an electronic version, I just typed it for the edification of the brethren.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

No; understanding of the word of God is what I was after; understanding can be faulty and yet conscience still binds to it.

I think you mean "bound to my understanding of"; as was Owen certainly and as we all should be.

No, I mean conscience...as in those great words spoken by Luther.

Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Holy Scriptures or by evident reason-for I can believe neither pope nor councils alone, as it is clear that they have erred repeatedly and contradicted themselves-I consider myself convicted by the testimony of Holy Scripture, which is my basis; my conscience is captive to the Word of God. Thus I cannot and will not recant, because acting against one's conscience is neither safe nor sound. God help me. Amen.

And better words yet, "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:" 1 Tim 1:5

My understanding certainly can be faulty.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

Almost persuaded...

I must admit, this treatise is powerful. Dr. Gill almost persuadeth me to the Christian Sabbath

8. Of the Place and Time of Public Worship.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

Ok, so my wife and I are talking about this subject and she is asking me this and that about it, and I say, "Honey, you should do your own study on this too." Her answer:

"I don't see myself spending hours studying Gill, Calvin and others to see if I can wash the dishes on Sunday."

I about fell out of my chair laughing. Got to love women!

 

[KMK]

In his wisdom, God, from the beginning set up one day in seven for all of us to worship Him corporately. Ultimately, if you reject this wisdom you are asserting that you have a better way for us to worship Him corporately.

It is one thing to reject the Sabbath system. It is another to propose an alternative.

If not the Sabbath, then what system do you propose for us to regularly engage in corporate worship?

(This question is addressed in general to all who oppose the Sabbath)

 

[Reformed Baptist]

In his wisdom, God, from the beginning set up one day in seven for all of us to worship Him corporately. Ultimately, if you reject this wisdom you are asserting that you have a better way for us to worship Him corporately.

It is one thing to reject the Sabbath system. It is another to propose an alternative.

If not the Sabbath, then what system do you propose for us to regularly engage in corporate worship?

(This question is addressed in general to all who oppose the Sabbath)

Good question brother, but I am going to have to "shelve" this subject for a season. My Systematic 1 mats arrived today...got to get busy on that.

Blessings

 

[Reformed Baptist]

In his wisdom, God, from the beginning set up one day in seven for all of us to worship Him corporately. Ultimately, if you reject this wisdom you are asserting that you have a better way for us to worship Him corporately.

It is one thing to reject the Sabbath system. It is another to propose an alternative.

If not the Sabbath, then what system do you propose for us to regularly engage in corporate worship?

(This question is addressed in general to all who oppose the Sabbath)

Let me offer some thought on this, but first a clarification. I have not taken an official "position" on the matter. So, it cannot be said of me, yet, that I oppose a Sunday Sabbath keeping. However, I am not advocating one either. I have much to study in this regard before I settle on a position. I am content to take by apostolic example a corporate meeting time for public worship on Sunday. This seems indisputable to me.

Concerning the 7th Day rest which was established at creation, I fail to see, at this point, how God commanded this to anyone before Moses. I am not alone in this view. I wrote in this thread that Dr. John Gill's treatise on the subject is powerful. And it certainly is. He is one who does advocate a Sunday Sabbath, but not for the same reasons I find from the Puritans. Nor does he see (as I understand him) the Jewish Sabbath as being eternal or commanded to anyone save the Jews.

We all must face the fact that there is no positive precept or commandment in the NT to keep a Sunday Sabbath identically to how the Jews kept the seventh day sabbath. In fact, the 1689 itself makes exceptions to how the Sabbath is kept based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus. The case with the "how" is very subjective as best I can tell. The brother on the PB that posted questions about the do's and don't's of Sunday Sabbath keeping was startling to me because it reminded me of how the Pharisees wrestled with the same issue regarding their Sabbath. I am not callign that man a Pharisee. But the struggle in what one can and cannot do was a reminded to my mind of their struggle as well. It did give me cause for warning concerning this Sunday Sabbath keeping that if it is not true, then it may well be a leaven of legalism. I am not saying it is, but I need to question this Sunday Sabbath doctrine and the practice of it.

What system would I propose for corporate worship? Nothing more or less than what we see in the NT by commandment or example.

 

[KMK]

In his wisdom, God, from the beginning set up one day in seven for all of us to worship Him corporately. Ultimately, if you reject this wisdom you are asserting that you have a better way for us to worship Him corporately.

It is one thing to reject the Sabbath system. It is another to propose an alternative.

If not the Sabbath, then what system do you propose for us to regularly engage in corporate worship?

(This question is addressed in general to all who oppose the Sabbath)

Let me offer some thought on this, but first a clarification. I have not taken an official "position" on the matter. So, it cannot be said of me, yet, that I oppose a Sunday Sabbath keeping. However, I am not advocating one either. I have much to study in this regard before I settle on a position. I am content to take by apostolic example a corporate meeting time for public worship on Sunday. This seems indisputable to me.

Concerning the 7th Day rest which was established at creation, I fail to see, at this point, how God commanded this to anyone before Moses. I am not alone in this view. I wrote in this thread that Dr. John Gill's treatise on the subject is powerful. And it certainly is. He is one who does advocate a Sunday Sabbath, but not for the same reasons I find from the Puritans. Nor does he see (as I understand him) the Jewish Sabbath as being eternal or commanded to anyone save the Jews.

We all must face the fact that there is no positive precept or commandment in the NT to keep a Sunday Sabbath identically to how the Jews kept the seventh day sabbath. In fact, the 1689 itself makes exceptions to how the Sabbath is kept based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus. The case with the "how" is very subjective as best I can tell. The brother on the PB that posted questions about the do's and don't's of Sunday Sabbath keeping was startling to me because it reminded me of how the Pharisees wrestled with the same issue regarding their Sabbath. I am not callign that man a Pharisee. But the struggle in what one can and cannot do was a reminded to my mind of their struggle as well. It did give me cause for warning concerning this Sunday Sabbath keeping that if it is not true, then it may well be a leaven of legalism. I am not saying it is, but I need to question this Sunday Sabbath doctrine and the practice of it.

What system would I propose for corporate worship? Nothing more or less than what we see in the NT by commandment or example.

I too am not interested in splitting hairs over what can or cannot be done on the Sabbath. If I have been away from my wife on a business trip for 6 days, you don't need to tell me how to spend my seventh day when I am reunited with her.

There may not be a positive command to keep the Sabbath in the NT but there is Mark 2:27 "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath..." The NT brings light to the OT. The Sabbath was never intended to be a burden, it was and is a gift! As a gift from God it is something that should be valued. It is as if I have returned from my business trip and my wife says, "Honey, I took care of everything. We can spend the whole day together!"

To my mind, any debate over whether keeping the Sabbath is a NT command is immaterial. My question is, why do we need a command to spend a whole day with our Redeemer whom we love?

 

[JM]

My question is, why do we need a command to spend a whole day with our Redeemer whom we love?

Good point.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

In his wisdom, God, from the beginning set up one day in seven for all of us to worship Him corporately. Ultimately, if you reject this wisdom you are asserting that you have a better way for us to worship Him corporately.

It is one thing to reject the Sabbath system. It is another to propose an alternative.

If not the Sabbath, then what system do you propose for us to regularly engage in corporate worship?

(This question is addressed in general to all who oppose the Sabbath)

Let me offer some thought on this, but first a clarification. I have not taken an official "position" on the matter. So, it cannot be said of me, yet, that I oppose a Sunday Sabbath keeping. However, I am not advocating one either. I have much to study in this regard before I settle on a position. I am content to take by apostolic example a corporate meeting time for public worship on Sunday. This seems indisputable to me.

Concerning the 7th Day rest which was established at creation, I fail to see, at this point, how God commanded this to anyone before Moses. I am not alone in this view. I wrote in this thread that Dr. John Gill's treatise on the subject is powerful. And it certainly is. He is one who does advocate a Sunday Sabbath, but not for the same reasons I find from the Puritans. Nor does he see (as I understand him) the Jewish Sabbath as being eternal or commanded to anyone save the Jews.

We all must face the fact that there is no positive precept or commandment in the NT to keep a Sunday Sabbath identically to how the Jews kept the seventh day sabbath. In fact, the 1689 itself makes exceptions to how the Sabbath is kept based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus. The case with the "how" is very subjective as best I can tell. The brother on the PB that posted questions about the do's and don't's of Sunday Sabbath keeping was startling to me because it reminded me of how the Pharisees wrestled with the same issue regarding their Sabbath. I am not callign that man a Pharisee. But the struggle in what one can and cannot do was a reminded to my mind of their struggle as well. It did give me cause for warning concerning this Sunday Sabbath keeping that if it is not true, then it may well be a leaven of legalism. I am not saying it is, but I need to question this Sunday Sabbath doctrine and the practice of it.

What system would I propose for corporate worship? Nothing more or less than what we see in the NT by commandment or example.

I too am not interested in splitting hairs over what can or cannot be done on the Sabbath. If I have been away from my wife on a business trip for 6 days, you don't need to tell me how to spend my seventh day when I am reunited with her.

There may not be a positive command to keep the Sabbath in the NT but there is Mark 2:27 "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath..." The NT brings light to the OT. The Sabbath was never intended to be a burden, it was and is a gift! As a gift from God it is something that should be valued. It is as if I have returned from my business trip and my wife says, "Honey, I took care of everything. We can spend the whole day together!"

To my mind, any debate over whether keeping the Sabbath is a NT command is immaterial. My question is, why do we need a command to spend a whole day with our Redeemer whom we love?

I don't find even the notion of a command to spend all day in the glories of Christ a burden. I do, however, get troubled when I am charged with sin if I don't.

 

[KMK]

Let me offer some thought on this, but first a clarification. I have not taken an official "position" on the matter. So, it cannot be said of me, yet, that I oppose a Sunday Sabbath keeping. However, I am not advocating one either. I have much to study in this regard before I settle on a position. I am content to take by apostolic example a corporate meeting time for public worship on Sunday. This seems indisputable to me.

Concerning the 7th Day rest which was established at creation, I fail to see, at this point, how God commanded this to anyone before Moses. I am not alone in this view. I wrote in this thread that Dr. John Gill's treatise on the subject is powerful. And it certainly is. He is one who does advocate a Sunday Sabbath, but not for the same reasons I find from the Puritans. Nor does he see (as I understand him) the Jewish Sabbath as being eternal or commanded to anyone save the Jews.

We all must face the fact that there is no positive precept or commandment in the NT to keep a Sunday Sabbath identically to how the Jews kept the seventh day sabbath. In fact, the 1689 itself makes exceptions to how the Sabbath is kept based on the teaching of the Lord Jesus. The case with the "how" is very subjective as best I can tell. The brother on the PB that posted questions about the do's and don't's of Sunday Sabbath keeping was startling to me because it reminded me of how the Pharisees wrestled with the same issue regarding their Sabbath. I am not callign that man a Pharisee. But the struggle in what one can and cannot do was a reminded to my mind of their struggle as well. It did give me cause for warning concerning this Sunday Sabbath keeping that if it is not true, then it may well be a leaven of legalism. I am not saying it is, but I need to question this Sunday Sabbath doctrine and the practice of it.

What system would I propose for corporate worship? Nothing more or less than what we see in the NT by commandment or example.

I too am not interested in splitting hairs over what can or cannot be done on the Sabbath. If I have been away from my wife on a business trip for 6 days, you don't need to tell me how to spend my seventh day when I am reunited with her.

There may not be a positive command to keep the Sabbath in the NT but there is Mark 2:27 "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath..." The NT brings light to the OT. The Sabbath was never intended to be a burden, it was and is a gift! As a gift from God it is something that should be valued. It is as if I have returned from my business trip and my wife says, "Honey, I took care of everything. We can spend the whole day together!"

To my mind, any debate over whether keeping the Sabbath is a NT command is immaterial. My question is, why do we need a command to spend a whole day with our Redeemer whom we love?

I don't find even the notion of a command to spend all day in the glories of Christ a burden. I do, however, get troubled when I am charged with sin if I don't.

I reread this thread and do not see where anyone has charged you with sin. You have asked why the Divines, in their wisdom, wrote what they did and many have tried to answer your question in a charitable fashion.

Let's say there was a Sabbath and you DID sanctify it, does that mean that you are without sin? I wouldn't worry about people, other than your elders, who charge you with sin.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This has been my experience: as I grew in my devotion for the Lord, I began working harder 6 days in the week so that I could engage in more heavenly activities on the 7th. As I grew in the Lord I became more and more conformed to the wisdom of the Reformed Divines.

And I still have a great deal of growing to do. Especially in the area of working hard for 6 days.

May the Spirit guide you into all truth, brother!

(We will have to deal with the tithing issue some other time )

 

[JM]

Good points Geoff.

How are we to keep the Sabbath in today's society?

Within the Christian church there are three leading options for answering your question.

Some Christians believe that the Sabbath was an Old Testament ordinance and has no application to the New Testament church. No less a giant than Saint Augustine took the position that the Sabbath was not carried over into the New Testament community and therefore has been fulfilled and was done away with through the work of Christ. There are Christians who feel that there is no particular significance to Sabbath keeping today, although they make up a very small minority.

For the most part, Christian people, while they may disagree as to what day is the Sabbath—the sixth or the seventh day and all that—and how we observe it, still maintain that the Sabbath is to be observed somehow in the Christian community. God ordained the Sabbath, not at Mt. Sinai with Moses and the people of Israel, but at Creation. The later books of the Law certainly filled out the concept of the Sabbath in terms of its specifics and how it was to be observed in Israel, but the Sabbath existed long before the Ten Commandments and other laws were given. This would indicate that as long as Creation is in effect, Sabbath is in effect. In the covenant God made with Israel he says, “This is my Sabbath unto all generations.” The fact that it’s a Creation ordinance is strong evidence that there is still a Sabbath observation requirement for Christians—in fact, not only for Christians, because the Sabbath was part of God’s design for humanity from the beginning. That’s one of the reasons states have had blue laws. Sabbath keeping was not even seen as a violation of the separation of church and state; everybody was required to have a Sabbath whether they were Christian, Jew, Muslim, or whatever.

In the New Testament the church comes together on the Lord’s Day, which is the first day of the week, for corporate worship. We have a clear mandate in the New Testament not to forsake the assembling of the saints (Heb. 10:25). In other words, the New Testament’s simple language says that Christians are supposed to be in corporate worship on the Lord’s Day. That means we’re supposed to go to church. That is usually seen as one of the ways in which the Sabbath is to be observed. All Christians I know of who believe that the Sabbath is still in effect agree that on the Sabbath we should be worshipping, and also that on one day in seven there should be rest from unnecessary commerce and labor. There are still provisions for commerce that must go on—hospital work, pharmacies, and such. But commerce just for the sake of merchandising ought to cease on the Sabbath.

This group of Christians who believe the Sabbath should be observed actually splits into two groups. One holds what we call the Continental view: Recreation is permitted on the Sabbath. The other holds the Puritan view: Recreation is forbidden on the Sabbath. I take the position that recreation is a legitimate form of rest on the Sabbath.
©1996 by R.C. Sproul. Used by permission of Tyndale.
Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. ©1982 by Thomas Nelson.
Used by permission. All rights reserved.

 

[Reformed Baptist]

I too am not interested in splitting hairs over what can or cannot be done on the Sabbath. If I have been away from my wife on a business trip for 6 days, you don't need to tell me how to spend my seventh day when I am reunited with her.

There may not be a positive command to keep the Sabbath in the NT but there is Mark 2:27 "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath..." The NT brings light to the OT. The Sabbath was never intended to be a burden, it was and is a gift! As a gift from God it is something that should be valued. It is as if I have returned from my business trip and my wife says, "Honey, I took care of everything. We can spend the whole day together!"

To my mind, any debate over whether keeping the Sabbath is a NT command is immaterial. My question is, why do we need a command to spend a whole day with our Redeemer whom we love?

I don't find even the notion of a command to spend all day in the glories of Christ a burden. I do, however, get troubled when I am charged with sin if I don't.

I reread this thread and do not see where anyone has charged you with sin. You have asked why the Divines, in their wisdom, wrote what they did and many have tried to answer your question in a charitable fashion.

Let's say there was a Sabbath and you DID sanctify it, does that mean that you are without sin? I wouldn't worry about people, other than your elders, who charge you with sin.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

This has been my experience: as I grew in my devotion for the Lord, I began working harder 6 days in the week so that I could engage in more heavenly activities on the 7th. As I grew in the Lord I became more and more conformed to the wisdom of the Reformed Divines.

And I still have a great deal of growing to do. Especially in the area of working hard for 6 days.

May the Spirit guide you into all truth, brother!

(We will have to deal with the tithing issue some other time )

Hey brother,

I didn't mean to imply someone on this thread charged me with sin. I should have clarified. I am a member in good standing with a Sabbatarian church. They speak of Sabbath breaking as sin. So that is what I meant. Sorry about that.

My elders have given me much liberty in this area. They are full aware of my questions and searching.

Thanks for your comments.