chuckd
Puritan Board Junior
I assume these are quoting Thomas Ford (1598 - 1674), but I can't find anything in his available works. Both are regarding infants.
War with Devils, Book II, Chap. I, Sect. I
2. So long as we are in infancy, and not adult, (supposing that we may live to the age when we may enjoy use of means, appointed by God for regeneration, justification, sanctification) it is very probable that we are in a state of nature, and vassals of Satan, as we were in the womb. Mr. Ford, a late divine, thus delivers himself; “I know, no reason to conclude that God should break his own ordinary road of bestowing grace in infant-age, upon those that live to the use of means appointed to that ends, and I suppose, (excepting the case of John the Baptist, who yet may be looked upon as privileged by an extraordinary account; to wit that by a miraculous instinct he might bear witness to Christ, as his fore-runner in the womb, as well as in the wilderness) it can hardly be asserted de facto, concerning any one that ever lived to the perfect use of reason , that he was justified and sanctified from the womb, or any period of infancy whatsoever; nor have we any scripture warrant to expect it; Nay, it were against the very end for which God appoints the use of means, seeing by bestowing saving grace out of them, to those that live to enjoy them, God would in a sort make void his own institutions: For what need of them, when the ends of them may be otherwise attained? I confess, grace is wrought in some very early, possibly in childhood, but ordinarly 'tis after they come under catechising.” His opinion is that the instance of Jeremy being sanctified from the womb, is but only a setting him apart for his office, Jer. i. 5. And if this be so, then Satan keeps his hold for this first period, i.e. from our first quickning in the womb, and during our infancy till we become adult.
Book II, Chap. I, Sect. III
2. Internally, they are in covenant so soon as by the intervention of the Spirit they are wrought on savingly and effectually. Now this may be either in the womb; and so godly parents may comfortably hope of all their infants as die in the womb, before they see this world's light; or after birth at any time before they become adult: only as we will not limit the Spirit, so we cannot but probably think, that the time of the Spirit's regenerating is ordinarily in this case, the very time of their baptism. Mr. Ford in his Infant baptism speaks thus : ‘Although God be not bound in his ordinance of baptism, so as to give grace, to all elect children at the instant of their baptism, yet seeing sacraments are not only bare signs and seals of the covenant, but conduits of the grace of the covenant, when and in what manner God is pleased to dispense it; I know not why the sacrament of baptism to some elect children, I mean to those that die in infancy, may not be indeed the laver of regeneration, and they receive the grace of baptism with the sign. For no person can enter into the kingdom of heaven, except his person be justified, and his nature sanctified, and God useth to dispense these graces in some ordinance or other; and seeing such infants live not to be capable of any other ordinance, why should I not believe them regenerate in baptism? If this opinion may be thought of any favour to the Papacy, that holds the sacrament to be effectual, ex opere operato: He answers solidly, that this opinion stands at a great distance from theirs; for that by their doctrine they make no difference between good and bad, elect or non-elect, in the participation of those benefits; They hold that in baptism all infants that receive it are actually regenerate, whereas he restrains the efficacy of that ordinance, only to the elect; and he admits not all of them neither, for he excludes those of the elect that afterwards live to come under the means of regeneration; only he supposeth a possibility and probability, that in some elect infants (viz. those that die in infancy) the season of God's doing that, which all Christians acknowlege, is done at one time or other before the separation of soul and body, (sc. their renovation, justification and sanctification ) is rather the time of baptism, than any other time.
These are the works of his I found available:
1. Aytokatakritos or, the sinner condemned of himself being a plea for God, against all the ungodly, proving them alone guilty of their own destruction (this is the only work he even speaks about infants)
2. Felo de se, or, The bishops condemned out of their own mouthes confessing their politick devices, and unjust practices, to settle and maintain their lordly dignities, and private interests, to the impoverishing and ruine of the nations wherein such idle and unprofitable drones are suffered to domineer
3. Letters to Mr. Hughes of Plymouth, and Mr. Ford of Exeter, concerning the common prayer from Edm. Elis.
4. Logos autopistos, or, Scriptures self-evidence to prove its existence, authority, certainty in itself
5. Reformation sure and stedfast, or, A seasonable sermon for the present times shevving the life and death of reformation
6. Singing the psalmes the duty of Christians under the New Testament
7. The times anatomiz'd
Is there another "Mr. Ford, a late divine" besides Thomas Ford?
War with Devils, Book II, Chap. I, Sect. I
2. So long as we are in infancy, and not adult, (supposing that we may live to the age when we may enjoy use of means, appointed by God for regeneration, justification, sanctification) it is very probable that we are in a state of nature, and vassals of Satan, as we were in the womb. Mr. Ford, a late divine, thus delivers himself; “I know, no reason to conclude that God should break his own ordinary road of bestowing grace in infant-age, upon those that live to the use of means appointed to that ends, and I suppose, (excepting the case of John the Baptist, who yet may be looked upon as privileged by an extraordinary account; to wit that by a miraculous instinct he might bear witness to Christ, as his fore-runner in the womb, as well as in the wilderness) it can hardly be asserted de facto, concerning any one that ever lived to the perfect use of reason , that he was justified and sanctified from the womb, or any period of infancy whatsoever; nor have we any scripture warrant to expect it; Nay, it were against the very end for which God appoints the use of means, seeing by bestowing saving grace out of them, to those that live to enjoy them, God would in a sort make void his own institutions: For what need of them, when the ends of them may be otherwise attained? I confess, grace is wrought in some very early, possibly in childhood, but ordinarly 'tis after they come under catechising.” His opinion is that the instance of Jeremy being sanctified from the womb, is but only a setting him apart for his office, Jer. i. 5. And if this be so, then Satan keeps his hold for this first period, i.e. from our first quickning in the womb, and during our infancy till we become adult.
Book II, Chap. I, Sect. III
2. Internally, they are in covenant so soon as by the intervention of the Spirit they are wrought on savingly and effectually. Now this may be either in the womb; and so godly parents may comfortably hope of all their infants as die in the womb, before they see this world's light; or after birth at any time before they become adult: only as we will not limit the Spirit, so we cannot but probably think, that the time of the Spirit's regenerating is ordinarily in this case, the very time of their baptism. Mr. Ford in his Infant baptism speaks thus : ‘Although God be not bound in his ordinance of baptism, so as to give grace, to all elect children at the instant of their baptism, yet seeing sacraments are not only bare signs and seals of the covenant, but conduits of the grace of the covenant, when and in what manner God is pleased to dispense it; I know not why the sacrament of baptism to some elect children, I mean to those that die in infancy, may not be indeed the laver of regeneration, and they receive the grace of baptism with the sign. For no person can enter into the kingdom of heaven, except his person be justified, and his nature sanctified, and God useth to dispense these graces in some ordinance or other; and seeing such infants live not to be capable of any other ordinance, why should I not believe them regenerate in baptism? If this opinion may be thought of any favour to the Papacy, that holds the sacrament to be effectual, ex opere operato: He answers solidly, that this opinion stands at a great distance from theirs; for that by their doctrine they make no difference between good and bad, elect or non-elect, in the participation of those benefits; They hold that in baptism all infants that receive it are actually regenerate, whereas he restrains the efficacy of that ordinance, only to the elect; and he admits not all of them neither, for he excludes those of the elect that afterwards live to come under the means of regeneration; only he supposeth a possibility and probability, that in some elect infants (viz. those that die in infancy) the season of God's doing that, which all Christians acknowlege, is done at one time or other before the separation of soul and body, (sc. their renovation, justification and sanctification ) is rather the time of baptism, than any other time.
These are the works of his I found available:
1. Aytokatakritos or, the sinner condemned of himself being a plea for God, against all the ungodly, proving them alone guilty of their own destruction (this is the only work he even speaks about infants)
2. Felo de se, or, The bishops condemned out of their own mouthes confessing their politick devices, and unjust practices, to settle and maintain their lordly dignities, and private interests, to the impoverishing and ruine of the nations wherein such idle and unprofitable drones are suffered to domineer
3. Letters to Mr. Hughes of Plymouth, and Mr. Ford of Exeter, concerning the common prayer from Edm. Elis.
4. Logos autopistos, or, Scriptures self-evidence to prove its existence, authority, certainty in itself
5. Reformation sure and stedfast, or, A seasonable sermon for the present times shevving the life and death of reformation
6. Singing the psalmes the duty of Christians under the New Testament
7. The times anatomiz'd
Is there another "Mr. Ford, a late divine" besides Thomas Ford?
