Ray Boltz "comes out" (of the closet)

[FrielWatcher]

According to his homepage, he seems to be performing at many Metropolitan Community Churches in the US. A church started exclusively for the homosexual community.

I don't understand it either. The most frequent thing heard if you say that the bible says that homosexuality is a sin, the response is "no it doesn't." And that's the extent of the argument. Along with the UCC's slogan with "progressive revelation" - "God is still talking." "We live in different times and God is okay with it now" because self-esteem is more important than justification.

I don't know...it just really bugs me that he is trying to justify sin, publicly. What if anyone said "I am a __(insert depraved state here)___", would it make press? Some other respectable sins...lust (when with the male friends at the bar), blasphemy every once in a while, taking gum from a co-worker's desk sans asking, coveting, too busy to pray. And what if we really opened it up and read the sinful thoughts of this singer like a computer chip in the back of his brain? Would he be telling the press about all those other sins? Why is this one so special?

(BTW, never heard of him before today).

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

This brought tears to my eyes. "The Anchor Holds" was a favorite song of mine.

This is a part of the falling away spoken of in Scripture; when things get worse for the people of God in the West — the "civilized" countries — the falling away will be exponential, and the remnant small.

 

[DMcFadden]

As Luther noted in his 1518 Heidelberg Disputation, the "theology of glory" was alive and well at the time of the Reformation. Unfortunately, broad evangelicalism has rediscovered it and found even more ways to glory in anything other than the "theology of the cross."

Today in Sunday school a woman kept challenging me about what is wrong with presenting the Gospel in terms of the "benefits" to our marriages, families, lives, etc. Well, for one, it is not the Gospel. The Gospel is not about how God helps me up over the last rung on the ladder to get to the top ("reach out to Jesus, he's reaching out to you"). The Gospel is about me having fallen to the bottom of the ladder with two broken legs and two broken arms, utterly unable to climb at all.

I tried one last analogy on her. If you want the Gospel of Santa Claus, beware!!! Last time I checked, Santa didn't just bring the presents, he was also "making a list, he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice." A Santa Claus Gospel depends on our being good and deserving his largesse = legalism.

It is no accident that the plank Luther tried to get his Augustinian colleagues to walk at Heidelberg was to face the fact that self-righteousness and my accumulated merit will lead in only two directions: to existential despair or to the foot of the cross.

 

[Grace Alone]

It is a huge disappointment. I have listened to Christian radio for years, and certainly they played his songs.

That "falling away" thought is a little scary.

 

[BJClark]

Jerusalem Blade;

This brought tears to my eyes. "The Anchor Holds" was a favorite song of mine.

This is a part of the falling away spoken of in Scripture; when things get worse for the people of God in the West — the "civilized" countries — the falling away will be exponential, and the remnant small.

that is one of my favorites as well, and I have to look at it this way, if I never listen to any music performed by a sinner, I'd never listen to any music at all..

What really makes this sad is that *he believes* "God thinks it's okay for him to give into this sin and not flee from the temptation", but even that plays into what many churches teach today. May God have mercy..

is it any wonder there is a woman running for the second highest office in this land?? and how many throughout the world are angry at her stance concerning God? They react, in what appears to be the most logical way, if we take Scripture into account..as if she is an alien in their land.

 

[Ivan]

The Gospel is about me having fallen to the bottom of the ladder with two broken legs and two broken arms, utterly unable to climb at all.

I see it even more radical than that. Using you analogy, I'd be at the bottom of the ladder DEAD! Or no ladder involved at all, me just dead.

I tried one last analogy on her. If you want the Gospel of Santa Claus, beware!!! Last time I checked, Santa didn't just bring the presents, he was also "making a list, he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice." A Santa Claus Gospel depends on our being good and deserving his largesse = legalism.

And what was her response?

It is no accident that the plank Luther tried to get his Augustinian colleagues to walk at Heidelberg was to face the fact that self-righteousness and my accumulated merit will lead in only two directions: to existential despair or to the foot of the cross.

AMEN, brother, AMEN!!

 

[B.J.]

I talked to a cousin of mine today who had him at his church (Assemblies of God) last year to sing. What disapointed him the most was that he was still hiding his homosexuality, all the while touring in churches that, under these current devolopments, would have not let him perform.

 

[shackleton]

I personally wonder about a lot of music people in the church, at least the churches I was in before becoming Reformed. Some of them were so blatant that I wondered how anyone could miss it.

(More than a few youth pastors met this same criteria). Sad

 

[shackleton]

If he came out of the closet does this mean that he is going to start living an openly gay lifestyle like "secular" actors and singers do?

 

[brothermiller]

Dear Ray.

God did not make you gay.Brethren his claim that God created him this way is a grave eternal mistake and Jesus said by their fruits ye shall know them {Matt 7:16}and not everyone that saith unto Him Lord Lord can enter into His glorious Kingdom {Matt 7:21}

Ray saying God created him that way would be like a murderer saying the same thing when God`s Word condemns such.It is spit in the face of God and right out calling His Word a lie.

God have everlasting mercy.

 

[MrMerlin777]

Always found Ray Boltz corny anyways. But then I'm just one of those crazy guys that thinks that most "contemporary christian" music is as lame as it gets. There is some good stuff out there, but such artists are few and far between.

For example, I think Rick Cua made much better music when he was still playing bass for The Outlaws.

 

[Christusregnat]

Always found Ray Boltz corny anyways. But then I'm just one of those crazy guys that thinks that most "contemporary christian" music is as lame as it gets. There is some good stuff out there, but such artists are few and far between.

For example, I think Rick Cua made much better music when he was still playing bass for The Outlaws.

Donald,

Try picking up The Lost Dogs, or any Adam Again (Homeboys, Dig and Perfecta). Top class, original, and edifying.

Cheers,

 

[MrMerlin777]

Always found Ray Boltz corny anyways. But then I'm just one of those crazy guys that thinks that most "contemporary christian" music is as lame as it gets. There is some good stuff out there, but such artists are few and far between.

For example, I think Rick Cua made much better music when he was still playing bass for The Outlaws.

Donald,

Try picking up The Lost Dogs, or any Adam Again (Homeboys, Dig and Perfecta). Top class, original, and edifying.

Cheers,

Familiar with all of these guys as well as Daniel Amos and anything Terry Taylor has put out (Including "Swirling Eddies"). All of these would fall in the category of "few and far between". Of course Gene Eugene is dead now so we won't be seeing any new Adam Again stuff. Mark Heard was good as well I thought. He's been dead now for a few years. 77s and alot of stuff Mike Roe puts out is pretty good as well. I also got a kick out of Charlie Peacock's Love Life album.

 

[Christusregnat]

Familiar with all of these guys as well as Daniel Amos and anything Terry Taylor has put out (Including "Swirling Eddies"). All of these would fall in the category of "few and far between". Of course Gene Eugene is dead now so we won't be seeing any new Adam Again stuff. Mark Heard was good as well I thought. He's been dead now for a few years. 77s and alot of stuff Mike Roe puts out is pretty good as well. I also got a kick out of Charlie Peacock's Love Life album.

Coolness.

Yeah, Gene was a giant among men; sad to see him gone. I heard that they're coming out with some of his unrealeased material soon. Do you know how to get ahold of a copy of Perfecta?

Cheers,

 

[KMK]

As Luther noted in his 1518 Heidelberg Disputation, the "theology of glory" was alive and well at the time of the Reformation. Unfortunately, broad evangelicalism has rediscovered it and found even more ways to glory in anything other than the "theology of the cross."

Today in Sunday school a woman kept challenging me about what is wrong with presenting the Gospel in terms of the "benefits" to our marriages, families, lives, etc. Well, for one, it is not the Gospel. The Gospel is not about how God helps me up over the last rung on the ladder to get to the top ("reach out to Jesus, he's reaching out to you"). The Gospel is about me having fallen to the bottom of the ladder with two broken legs and two broken arms, utterly unable to climb at all.

I tried one last analogy on her. If you want the Gospel of Santa Claus, beware!!! Last time I checked, Santa didn't just bring the presents, he was also "making a list, he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty or nice." A Santa Claus Gospel depends on our being good and deserving his largesse = legalism.

It is no accident that the plank Luther tried to get his Augustinian colleagues to walk at Heidelberg was to face the fact that self-righteousness and my accumulated merit will lead in only two directions: to existential despair or to the foot of the cross.

Awesome stuff!

Do you feel a sermon coming on, Dennis?

 

[Archlute]

Donald,

Try picking up The Lost Dogs, or any Adam Again (Homeboys, Dig and Perfecta). Top class, original, and edifying.

Cheers,

Oh man, I remember picking up an Adam Again cassette at the local Christian bookstore back in '88 or '89, and I thought it was complete lameness. Would that have been in their early years while they were still refining their talents, or do we just have different tastes in music?


Edited to add: does the line "sometimes I sing by myself, sometimes we sing together; I like to make some noise, I like to turn it uuuuuuu-uuuuuu-uup" ring any bells? That's about the only line I can still remember from that album, and I remember it still because it was SO LAME!

P.S. Donald, since Adam will now be away for awhile, you'll have to be the resident "Adam Again" expert, and give us the answer.

 

[PastorSBC]

Never heard of him.

He was a very popular Christian recording artist a few years back. I have a couple of CD's by him.

I did some research, read about him, listen to about four of his songs and I can tell you that I've never heard of this guy.

Wow. I have heard specials done in church using his music since I was a little boy.

Very sad stuff.

 

[Christusregnat]

Donald,

Try picking up The Lost Dogs, or any Adam Again (Homeboys, Dig and Perfecta). Top class, original, and edifying.

Cheers,

Oh man, I remember picking up an Adam Again cassette at the local Christian bookstore back in '88 or '89, and I thought it was complete lameness. Would that have been in their early years while they were still refining their talents, or do we just have different tastes in music?


Edited to add: does the line "sometimes I sing by myself, sometimes we sing together; I like to make some noise, I like to turn it uuuuuuu-uuuuuu-uup" ring any bells? That's about the only line I can still remember from that album, and I remember it still because it was SO LAME!

P.S. Donald, since Adam will now be away for awhile, you'll have to be the resident "Adam Again" expert, and give us the answer.

Adam,

I'm not gone until the end of today.

Yeah, that album is SUPER LAME; In a World of Time, or something like that. Homeboys is the turning point for Adam Again. Dig was the follow up for that, and was just as good. Perfecta continues the trend. Gene incorporated groove, blues, rock, funk, and a host of styles from Homeboys on. Here are some examples:

[video=youtube;E60D1xUfi8w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E60D1xUfi8w[/video]
Mind you, this is a live recording off of someone's video camera

[video=youtube;uyx_xAM6Z_o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyx_xAM6Z_o&feature=related[/video]
Same

[video=youtube;MMh87K3TUS0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMh87K3TUS0&feature=related[/video]
Studio recording; the dissonance is intended to reflect the message of the song.

Anywho, they got better.

Cheers,

 

[panta dokimazete]

ugh.

 

[MrMerlin777]

Familiar with all of these guys as well as Daniel Amos and anything Terry Taylor has put out (Including "Swirling Eddies"). All of these would fall in the category of "few and far between". Of course Gene Eugene is dead now so we won't be seeing any new Adam Again stuff. Mark Heard was good as well I thought. He's been dead now for a few years. 77s and alot of stuff Mike Roe puts out is pretty good as well. I also got a kick out of Charlie Peacock's Love Life album.

Coolness.

Yeah, Gene was a giant among men; sad to see him gone. I heard that they're coming out with some of his unrealeased material soon. Do you know how to get ahold of a copy of Perfecta?

Cheers,

You might try ebay. I had a bunch of rare music stolen a few years back and reaquired a bit of it there. Although you might have to pay a bit depending on how rare the recording you're looking for is.

 

[Roldan]

We were just talking about this on another message board that I am a member of, this is what one of the members said and I post it because I think he made a great point...btw his name is board name is Eternal

We are all sinners. If I struggle with greed, I can't just say "all well, that is the way God made me." Or if I have an overactive sex drive and I sleep with countless women, I can't just chalk it up to my DNA.

We are sinners, and we sin. We struggle with sin. I sympathize with his plight, and I agree a lot with Funk Rabbit. But we are told to press on toward our goal until we attain our prize, not give up on the third lap.

If you accept the bible as true, then there is no getting around the fact that sin, like greed, pride, drunkenness, etc. is a sin.

Sin is very overpowering. Sin is normal to our condition as fallen people. It is very weighty. Do not be surprised that it seems natural.

His new theology is what is most revealing though. Where does he find it in scripture? Or is scripture now taking a back seat to his personal comfort?

I know there is a lot to the story, and I don't presume to know it all. But sin is still sin, and must not be accepted as "just the way God made me."

My two cents were...

The truth of the matter is not that "God made me this way" its actually as Eternal pointed out and I'll paraphrase "SIN made me this way" and now Mr. Boltz is in rebellion and and at enmity with God's revealed word concerning this matter, May God grant him the grace and the ability to overcome this gross temptation and sin, I will be praying for his deliverance.

Holy Culture Community Forum

 

[ManleyBeasley]

I personally wonder about a lot of music people in the church, at least the churches I was in before becoming Reformed. Some of them were so blatant that I wondered how anyone could miss it.

(More than a few youth pastors met this same criteria). Sad

I agree. Many music ministers (and some youth ministers) seem to be very effiminate. Its almost a trend in modern evangelicalism. I don't like most new Christian music. For Christian music I listen to either Keith Green or Reformed Christian Rap (yes it exists) and thats about it. Besides that I listen to non-christian music.

 

[Virginia Marine]

How incredibly sad. The only reason I had heard of him is one of his songs was played at my Grandmother's funeral several years ago ("Thank You for Giving to the Lord"). It still chokes me up when I hear it. Sad...

 

[Roldan]

I personally wonder about a lot of music people in the church, at least the churches I was in before becoming Reformed. Some of them were so blatant that I wondered how anyone could miss it.

(More than a few youth pastors met this same criteria). Sad

I agree. Many music ministers (and some youth ministers) seem to be very effiminate. Its almost a trend in modern evangelicalism. I don't like most new Christian music. For Christian music I listen to either Keith Green or Reformed Christian Rap (yes it exists) and thats about it. Besides that I listen to non-christian music.

I actually had an experience that opened my eyes to what you are speaking of.

My crew and I went to perform at Without Walls in Tampa, FL. some years ago and of course I already knew of their health and wealth gospel and all that jazz and I let them know from the jump that we were Reformed and so forth but they still wanted to hand over the Mic to us so we were like ok then be ready to kick us off stage LOL but anyways when we got there the coordinator was the "youth pastor" and he met us outside BUT as he was walking towards us, and I'm not trying to be rude or spreading gossip but, he walked as if a womens runway model I mean it was so flagrant. And I thought to myself wow I hope he sticks around so I can talk to him about the gospel, but low and behold he walks up to us and and shakes our hand as if royalty and so feminine and stated that he was the "youth pastor" and was telling us the agenda for the night but I didn't hear a word he said because all I could think about was what planet am I on as I just heard a womens voice coming out this guys mouth so we decided not to do the event and called it off right there on the spot, why? because when I asked him in a comedic way if he was gay he said YES and then told him it was against our CHRISTIAN worldview and just left and never went back and then I warned some of my family members who were attending that church and they suspected but never thought to ask and left the church, well that church doesn't exist anymore because, as some maybe have heard on the news that the pastor and his wife got divorced and sold the church, man its sad but God is still Sovereign and will continue to call out His Remnant.


Ps If this post is improper I have no problem if you guys delete it with no explanation necessary

 

[Me Died Blue]

Well silly me, I actually LIKED most of his stuff (though not agreeing it should have been sang in Church). How sickening to hear about this.

Same here. There are, indeed, some songs without much substance and even with a "Theology of Glory" behind them, the the lyrics of others are biblical and strong, such as the song you posted ("I Will Praise the Lord"), "Watch the Lamb" and "The Hammer."

 

[No Longer A Libertine]

The mullet man from TBN? (Granted there are many mullets on TBN both literally and figuratively)