Reformed Baptists Not Doing a Good Job of Planting Churches

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

Are Reformed Baptist churches doing well at planting churches? After gathering data from 73 respondents who pastor churches that adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, church-planter Matt Troupe concludes that Reformed Baptists “are not aggressively planting new congregations and that organizational structures are not functioning effectively to promote church planting.” In light of his findings, Matt suggests four areas of policy change that would promote further reformation among our churches in this vital area of kingdom extension.

Reformed Baptists Not Doing a Good Job of Planting Churches

Your servant

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you think that many times RB churches put more energy into homeschooling, which leads to an inward focus rather than an outward focus. If the family has any backround with fundamentalism they might also let seperation turn into isolation.
I like anything that speaks about reaching out to the lost.Many of the RB churches are still small. Many of the members are not so much neglecting evangelism as they are seeking to work on their own sanctification.
If you come from a church backround with a lack of confessional teaching it takes time {and alot of reading and prayer} to reform from some of these wrong ideas to a more biblical view of life. Not all of this is bad,in fact it is needful. The key it seems is to be reminded that we need to keep an outward focus as well;
I have enjoyed and been challenged by these messages in particular this past year;
SermonAudio.com - The Church's Need of an Outward Focus

106 The Church's Need of an Outward Focus
Michael Crawford • 60 min.
Immanuel Baptist Church Play! |

SUN 09/25/2005

91 Christian Relevence
Michael Crawford • 62 min.
Free Grace Church Reformed 100+ Play! |

SUN 07/30/2006
Special Meeting

The Believers Call to Stand in the Gap
Michael Crawford • 46 min.
Immanuel Baptist Church 100+ Play! |

These sermons are well worth the time to listen too,especially for us who enjoy reading and studying. They go hand in hand with the concern of the OP.
Let me know what you think. I believe Pastor Crawford is right on the pulse of the issue overall.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

Hi Rich. Good question. Most of the 1689 churches I associate with believe as firmly in the interdependence of local churches as they do the independence of local churches. Accordingly, we reject the notion that any one local church can successfully carry out the work of the Great Commission in isolation from other true churches of Christ. We believe, rather, that the work of church planting and missions is not a solo but a cooperative effort.

 

[jogri17]

I make the following comments based on experience: Because of the focus on the autonomy of the local church (which as a presbyterian I could affirm rightly defined) in foreign missions they see it as the responsibility as the native church plant to continue the work not the responsibility of the sending group or church. Here in Québec Raymond Perron has devoted his time to working planting CONFESSIONAL Reformed baptist churches in Québec. Now many baptists realize the hardship in that and make a clear decision that its better pragmatically to work with broader groups (SBC, other baptist associations, ect...) and they can still hold to their reformed solteriology and receive more financial support, prayer support, by working in mixed yet orthodox denominations. There are many baptists in québec who love ARBCA but why work with that when the SBC will support calvinists and the general baptist work has a longer history in the province?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

OK, thanks.

I assume by "Reformed Baptist" you're restricting your consideration to those Churches that subscribe to the 1689 LBCF and would not include Sovereign Grace Ministries in your critique.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

Hello Rich,
Dr.Bob will no doubt answer you but if I were asked this question I would say that the shared confession of faith leads to a view that although we are seperate autonomous churches, those who belong to ARBCA look to voluntarily co-operate with other like minded 1689 assemblies.
As I noted in my post many RB churches are small so just financially it becomes a consideration to train and equip missonaries and offer financial aid. The ARBCA website might speak to this.
Also it is true we each identify with our particular denomination, yet I also am supportive of any church who seeks to present the claims of Christ faithfully.
While we seek to fine tune our beliefs here on the PB and we present our differences if we were together in a public setting speaking to unsaved persons we would work together to address that persons need of salvation and the focus would be on that goal, not on any of the differences at least initially

 

[Herald]

I know that ARBCA has a dedicated church planting initiative among it's member churches. If I recall, last year they hosted a church planting round table at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, PA. One of the reasons there is a mutual interest with ARBCA (between my church and ARBCA) is that we are located equidistant from Washington and Baltimore; not quite in the city limits of either but definitely within driving distance.

Part of our long term goal is to plant another RB church in the area. The assistance of like-minded churches will prove invaluable.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

OK, thanks.

I assume by "Reformed Baptist" you're restricting your consideration to those Churches that subscribe to the 1689 LBCF and would not include Sovereign Grace Ministries in your critique.

Yes. The research church-planter Matt Troupe collated and assessed was based on data solicited from pastors of 1689 churches.

 

[KMK]

ARBCA is committed to planting churches and has many ongoing projects.

There seems to be a presupposition to this discussion that RB churches ought to plant churches rather than reform the ones that already exist. I am not sure I agree.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

I make the following comments based on experience: Because of the focus on the autonomy of the local church (which as a presbyterian I could affirm rightly defined) in foreign missions they see it as the responsibility as the native church plant to continue the work not the responsibility of the sending group or church. Here in Québec Raymond Perron has devoted his time to working planting CONFESSIONAL Reformed baptist churches in Québec. Now many baptists realize the hardship in that and make a clear decision that its better pragmatically to work with broader groups (SBC, other baptist associations, ect...) and they can still hold to their reformed solteriology and receive more financial support, prayer support, by working in mixed yet orthodox denominations. There are many baptists in québec who love ARBCA but why work with that when the SBC will support calvinists and the general baptist work has a longer history in the province?

J. P.,

Thanks for your helpful input. I see no reason why Reformed Baptists from different denominational associations (e.g., ARBCA and SBC) cannot work together cooperatively especially when there is sufficient agreement doctrinally and philosophically. Perhaps Rich could help us here, but I suspect that O.P.C. churches might, in some instances, work cooperatively with P.C.A. churches in certain kingdom endeavors.

 

[Iconoclast]

ARBCA is committed to planting churches and has many ongoing projects.

There seems to be a presupposition to this discussion that RB churches ought to plant churches rather than reform the ones that already exist. I am not sure I agree.

Ken
As time permits I would like to hear a little bit more of your thoughts here, or perhaps in a new thread. If a person re-locates and does not find their denomination in the area, to what extent and what guidelines should be observed to help an assembly reform, without causing strife or division?

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

ARBCA is committed to planting churches and has many ongoing projects.

There seems to be a presupposition to this discussion that RB churches ought to plant churches rather than reform the ones that already exist. I am not sure I agree.

Ken,

I don't detect that presupposition in this discussion. It's certainly not a presupposition of Matt Troupe's research paper. The RB churches interviewed by Matt have been and continue to be committed to the reformation of churches that already exist. Some of us share the conviction, however, that church planting happens to be one of the areas of RB ecclesiology that needs further reformation. Of course, not all RB churches are at a stage of development to make the same level of contribution in this area. But many are at that stage. Their doctrine and worship are in order. But they're not growing. Nor are they multiplying new congregations. Matt's research and analysis suggest the need for reformation in the following areas:

(1) RB churches need to see the multiplication of new congregations as a core part of the purpose of their churches and associations.
(2) RB churches need to plant churches that are focused on making new disciples.
(3) RB churches need to target large cities in their church planting efforts.
(4) RB churches need to improve their cooperation in order to multiply worshipping congregations.
​

Hope this helps clarify.

 

[Herald]

I make the following comments based on experience: Because of the focus on the autonomy of the local church (which as a presbyterian I could affirm rightly defined) in foreign missions they see it as the responsibility as the native church plant to continue the work not the responsibility of the sending group or church. Here in Québec Raymond Perron has devoted his time to working planting CONFESSIONAL Reformed baptist churches in Québec. Now many baptists realize the hardship in that and make a clear decision that its better pragmatically to work with broader groups (SBC, other baptist associations, ect...) and they can still hold to their reformed solteriology and receive more financial support, prayer support, by working in mixed yet orthodox denominations. There are many baptists in québec who love ARBCA but why work with that when the SBC will support calvinists and the general baptist work has a longer history in the province?

J. P.,

Thanks for your helpful input. I see no reason why Reformed Baptists from different denominational associations (e.g., ARBCA and SBC) cannot work together cooperatively especially when there is sufficient agreement doctrinally and philosophically. Perhaps Rich could help us here, but I suspect that O.P.C. churches might, in some instances, work cooperatively with P.C.A. churches in certain kingdom endeavors.

Bob,

The challenges with inter-denomnational church planting stems partly from doctrinal differences. Many SBC-Founders churches are still very much dispensational. Some still hold on to fundamentalism (to varying degrees). Personally, I would have a difficult time sanctioning the planting of a church in cooperation with those whom I have deep doctrinal disagreements.

 

[FenderPriest]

This does slightly touch on an issue I've been interested in lately: Does anybody know of any historical surveys or research into the history of "church planting"? I'll admit my ignorance on the subject, but I get the feeling that the "mission to church plant" has a stronger emphasis in the church today than it has in the past - though, as I said, I have little data to base that off of. Any help on this question? Survey's of church planting in general and/or in America?

 

[Herald]

As a P.S. to my last post...

What I mean by "cooperation" is an official church-sanctioned effort. Personally, I rejoice in seeing Calvinistic Baptist churches appear on the landscape. Of course, the OP was about Reformed Baptist Churches, not Calvinistic non-Reformed churches.

 

[Herald]

This does slightly touch on an issue I've been interested in lately: Does anybody know of any historical surveys or research into the history of "church planting"? I'll admit my ignorance on the subject, but I get the feeling that the "mission to church plant" has a stronger emphasis in the church today than it has in the past - though, as I said, I have little data to base that off of. Any help on this question? Survey's of church planting in general and/or in America?

Jacob, you're question, while a good one, is best asked in a new thread. I'd be happy to start a new thread with your post if you like.

 

[Herald]

A second P.S.

I meant no offense to SBC-Founders churches. My point is that Founders churches come in all sizes and flavors. I do not want to close the door on cooperation with a Founders church that may be friendly or in keeping with the 1689 LBC.

 

[FenderPriest]

This does slightly touch on an issue I've been interested in lately: Does anybody know of any historical surveys or research into the history of "church planting"? I'll admit my ignorance on the subject, but I get the feeling that the "mission to church plant" has a stronger emphasis in the church today than it has in the past - though, as I said, I have little data to base that off of. Any help on this question? Survey's of church planting in general and/or in America?

Jacob, you're question, while a good one, is best asked in a new thread. I'd be happy to start a new thread with your post if you like.

Thanks for the direction Bill. I will do so - thanks!

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

I make the following comments based on experience: Because of the focus on the autonomy of the local church (which as a presbyterian I could affirm rightly defined) in foreign missions they see it as the responsibility as the native church plant to continue the work not the responsibility of the sending group or church. Here in Québec Raymond Perron has devoted his time to working planting CONFESSIONAL Reformed baptist churches in Québec. Now many baptists realize the hardship in that and make a clear decision that its better pragmatically to work with broader groups (SBC, other baptist associations, ect...) and they can still hold to their reformed solteriology and receive more financial support, prayer support, by working in mixed yet orthodox denominations. There are many baptists in québec who love ARBCA but why work with that when the SBC will support calvinists and the general baptist work has a longer history in the province?

J. P.,

Thanks for your helpful input. I see no reason why Reformed Baptists from different denominational associations (e.g., ARBCA and SBC) cannot work together cooperatively especially when there is sufficient agreement doctrinally and philosophically. Perhaps Rich could help us here, but I suspect that O.P.C. churches might, in some instances, work cooperatively with P.C.A. churches in certain kingdom endeavors.

Bob,

The challenges with inter-denomnational church planting stems partly from doctrinal differences. Many SBC-Founders churches are still very much dispensational. Some still hold on to fundamentalism (to varying degrees). Personally, I would have a difficult time sanctioning the planting of a church in cooperation with those whom I have deep doctrinal disagreements.

Bill,

I agree there must be adequate agreement doctrinally and philosophically, as I noted in my post above. I am friends with a number of SBC pastors who fully subscribe to the 1689. So I'm not advocating cooperating with SBC churches across the board--only with those with whom we have sufficient agreement. Moreover, from my discussions with pastors in the SBC, the convention allows for a significant degree of local church autonomy. Accordingly, one may be a part of the SBC while retaining a distinctively Reformed identity and choosing to support SBC causes that reflect that identity.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 11:28:38 EST-----

This does slightly touch on an issue I've been interested in lately: Does anybody know of any historical surveys or research into the history of "church planting"? I'll admit my ignorance on the subject, but I get the feeling that the "mission to church plant" has a stronger emphasis in the church today than it has in the past - though, as I said, I have little data to base that off of. Any help on this question? Survey's of church planting in general and/or in America?

Jacob,

I'm not immediately aware of any research done in this area, and I agree with Bill that it probably deserves a thread of its own. I would venture, however, to suggest that the reason for a greater interest today in church planting may be that there are proportionately less established Reformed congregations in America today than in our country's Puritan era. If this is true, then young Reformed ministerial aspirants have the choice of assuming leadership roles in churches that are not Reformed or in the process of reformation. Or they need to think about planting Reformed churches from ground up. Neo-Calvinism seems to be focusing a lot on this latter approach, and I think more traditional Reformed churches are beginning to feel the need to do the same.

 

[LawrenceU]

Well, we are trying to do our little part.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

Well, we are trying to do our little part.

Press on, brother!

 

[Pergamum]

Thanks for the post, brother.


Critical self-reflection is the first step in improvement.

We should never sit and be satisfied, but always be pressing forward and desiring more fruit.

 

[JML]

Is part of this due to a lack of qualified men to serve as pastors of these churches? I have heard both ways, some say that there are more men seeking the office than there are positions available, others say that it is the other way around.

 

[Pergamum]

I am skimming the paper now and will read it more deeply later, but....


Does it focus primarily on US church planting...it seems to. By church-planting we seem to be assuming US church-planting, and maybe this is part of the problem.



I have noticed that externally-focused churches, where the focus is on reaching far away also grows at home. I.e. if a church is missions minded for foreign fields, local growth is the natural result as well.


Local interests breed internally-focused churches.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 01:41:52 EST-----

The writer speaks of the Great Commission, yet only focuses on discipling one nation. but as we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier. Zeal for things abroad contributes to zeal for things near.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

I am skimming the paper now and will read it more deeply later, but....

Does it focus primarily on US church planting...it seems to. By church-planting we seem to be assuming US church-planting, and maybe this is part of the problem.

I have noticed that externally-focused churches, where the focus is on reaching far away also grows at home. I.e. if a church is missions minded for foreign fields, local growth is the natural result as well.

Local interests breed internally-focused churches.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 01:41:52 EST-----

The writer speaks of the Great Commission, yet only focuses on discipling one nation. but as we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier. Zeal for things abroad contributes to zeal for things near.

Perg,

I agree with the need to cultivate and maintain a global mindset. Nevertheless, as Troupe's research paper seems to indicate, Reformed Baptists have tended to focus on either reforming existing churches or supporting foreign missionaries. Whatever energies have been expended on planting churches here in the US have been largely confined to finding groups of believers who want a Reformed Baptist church and sending a man to pastor that core group and attempt to build a church. There has been less focus on ground-zero church planting in large metropolitan areas where there is no or little Reformed witness existing. The concern of some of us is that there can be more energy and financial resource expended trying to proselytize believers to the Reformed faith and less energy expended trying to win the unconverted to Christ--at least here in America.

When you write, "As we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier," I'm inclined to agree in part. However, I've sometimes met many Christians and been in churches that seem to have quite a zeal for what's going on overseas but seemingly little zeal for the lost at home. I confess that I've been guilty of this at times. So I think it can also work the other way around--zeal for the lost in my backyard can foster and make more genuine my zeal for the lost in other parts of the world. Ideally, and I'm sure you'd agree, we should be zealous for both.

Thanks for your input and for taking time to read Matt's paper.

 

[Reformed Thomist]

Whatever energies have been expended on planting churches here in the US have been largely confined to finding groups of believers who want a Reformed Baptist church and sending a man to pastor that core group and attempt to build a church. There has been less focus on ground-zero church planting in large metropolitan areas where there is no or little Reformed witness existing.

Speaking as a student at a massive secular research university in a large metropolitan area, I believe that a new Reformed Baptist congregation in the right hands on (even meeting in a small lecture hall at one of our old, liberal theological colleges) or a stone's throw from campus would do very well, very quickly. So many students here are hungry for robust Biblical preaching.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Hopefully Matt's paper will result in positive effect.

 

[rbcbob]

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

Hi Rich. Good question. Most of the 1689 churches I associate with believe as firmly in the interdependence of local churches as they do the independence of local churches. Accordingly, we reject the notion that any one local church can successfully carry out the work of the Great Commission in isolation from other true churches of Christ. We believe, rather, that the work of church planting and missions is not a solo but a cooperative effort.

That is a rather strong assertion and, depending upon if, and how, you might qualify it I may have to take exception to it Scripturally. Our church is not affiliated with ARBCA or any such body yet, under Christ we have been used of Him to
1. Train pastors
2. Plant a sister church
3. Do mission works on 5 continents
4. Give up one of our elders to train men in a foreign land

How then am I to understand your words?

 

[Pergamum]

I am skimming the paper now and will read it more deeply later, but....

Does it focus primarily on US church planting...it seems to. By church-planting we seem to be assuming US church-planting, and maybe this is part of the problem.

I have noticed that externally-focused churches, where the focus is on reaching far away also grows at home. I.e. if a church is missions minded for foreign fields, local growth is the natural result as well.

Local interests breed internally-focused churches.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 01:41:52 EST-----

The writer speaks of the Great Commission, yet only focuses on discipling one nation. but as we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier. Zeal for things abroad contributes to zeal for things near.

Perg,

I agree with the need to cultivate and maintain a global mindset. Nevertheless, as Troupe's research paper seems to indicate, Reformed Baptists have tended to focus on either reforming existing churches or supporting foreign missionaries. Whatever energies have been expended on planting churches here in the US have been largely confined to finding groups of believers who want a Reformed Baptist church and sending a man to pastor that core group and attempt to build a church. There has been less focus on ground-zero church planting in large metropolitan areas where there is no or little Reformed witness existing. The concern of some of us is that there can be more energy and financial resource expended trying to proselytize believers to the Reformed faith and less energy expended trying to win the unconverted to Christ--at least here in America.

When you write, "As we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier," I'm inclined to agree in part. However, I've sometimes met many Christians and been in churches that seem to have quite a zeal for what's going on overseas but seemingly little zeal for the lost at home. I confess that I've been guilty of this at times. So I think it can also work the other way around--zeal for the lost in my backyard can foster and make more genuine my zeal for the lost in other parts of the world. Ideally, and I'm sure you'd agree, we should be zealous for both.

Thanks for your input and for taking time to read Matt's paper.

Yes, I agree on many points.

Are their foreign missions all that strong when compared to their home missions?

If the paper was replicated, but foreign missions was studied instead of home missions, how would the results differ in terms of number of missionaries per number of members of churches, percentage of income spent, number of fields engaged in, number of new churches planted overseas, and overall strategy to prioritize the darkest holes in the world?

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 04:54:51 EST-----

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

Hi Rich. Good question. Most of the 1689 churches I associate with believe as firmly in the interdependence of local churches as they do the independence of local churches. Accordingly, we reject the notion that any one local church can successfully carry out the work of the Great Commission in isolation from other true churches of Christ. We believe, rather, that the work of church planting and missions is not a solo but a cooperative effort.

That is a rather strong assertion and, depending upon if, and how, you might qualify it I may have to take exception to it Scripturally. Our church is not affiliated with ARBCA or any such body yet, under Christ we have been used of Him to
1. Train pastors
2. Plant a sister church
3. Do mission works on 5 continents
4. Give up one of our elders to train men in a foreign land

How then am I to understand your words?

I bet you don't truly do mission work on 5 continents through the efforts of your local home church alone, in isolation from others. Almost all asian and overseas efforts are a cooperation between US sending churches and some local national church, or some group which processes visas for you. I am guessing that your local deacons are not processing visas on 5 continents.

Also, no missionary I know is SOLELY supported by one local home/sending church. In almost every case of Us missionaries being sent overseas, several churches come together to support a missionary and help the sending church send that one overseas.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 04:58:05 EST-----

Hopefully Matt's paper will result in positive effect.

Yes, AMEN to that!

Do you know how this paper is being received generally?

Are people hearing about it, taking it to heart, and looking into its validity so that some "best practices" may be adopted and older practices/strategies/visions may be discarded? I.e., will this paper be enough to help push for change/improvement/further progress?