Refute of John Gerstner by Zane Hodges

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While I was doing a search on a particular point of theology I happened upon this article by Zane Hodges. I am sure it is not new to many of you, but I found it rather interesting. Having read Gerstner's critique of dispensationalism, I found Hodge's refutation an engaging read. I post it here for your edification.

http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1991b/Calvin.html
 
BaptistInCrisis said:
While I was doing a search on a particular point of theology I happened upon this article by Zane Hodges. I am sure it is not new to many of you, but I found it rather interesting. Having read Gerstner's critique of dispensationalism, I found Hodge's refutation an engaging read. I post it here for your edification.

http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1991b/Calvin.html
Click to expand...

As I remember, he was on the wrong side of the Lorship Salvation controversy some years ago.

By the way, Baptist In Crisis, judging by your avatar, you don't look particularly as if you're in crisis. That's a nice, relaxed looking photo you've got there!

Hey! This is my 600th post. Do I win a new car, or something?
 
BaptistInCrisis said:
While I was doing a search on a particular point of theology I happened upon this article by Zane Hodges. I am sure it is not new to many of you, but I found it rather interesting. Having read Gerstner's critique of dispensationalism, I found Hodge's refutation an engaging read. I post it here for your edification.
http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1991b/Calvin.html
Click to expand...


I only got so far as ... "But we are never told by this writer that the dispensational/Plymouth Brethren view of saving faith has its roots in Reformation theology!"

Hodge seems to confuse (deliberately?) assurance with limited atonement. So I quit then.
 
bookslover said:
As I remember, he was on the wrong side of the Lorship Salvation controversy some years ago.
Click to expand...

Yes he wrote a book entitled Absolutely Free! which is rank antinomianism. But in order to counter the antinomianism of his postion he holds to millennial exclusion i.e. some Christians will go to hell for 1000 years if they do not live holy lives which stems the teaching of G H Lang (who incidently spoke at the Gospel Hall I left way back).

In my humble opinion Zane Hodges gets a big :down:
 
AV1611 said:
But in order to counter the antinomianism of his postion he holds to millennial exclusion i.e. some Christians will go to hell for 1000 years if they do not live holy lives
Click to expand...

That's a new spin on "conditional forgiveness!" Is this another example of Dispensationalists "sticking to Scripture rather than the mere teachings of men?"
 
By the way, Baptist In Crisis, judging by your avatar, you don't look particularly as if you're in crisis. That's a nice, relaxed looking photo you've got there!
Click to expand...

Don't be fooled. Can't you see the maniacal smile? :lol:

Seriously, I no longer consider myself a "Baptist in Crisis." The crisis is over, but I'm stuck with the screen name. My crisis had more to do with my departure from dispensationalism. I thought I was caught in a tractor beam pulling me towards Presbyterianism. I feared leaving behind all that I held dear, but I had to obey God rather than my traditions. After prayer and study I found that my "crisis" was not a crisis at all. While I have abandoned dispensationalism, I am still solidly Baptist.

I know...more info than you were looking for.

....but just to be safe, watch out for tha maniacal smile. ;)
 
This is precisely the issue. In Reformed thought good works are a condition for salvation. A deft Reformed thinker, like Samuel Logan, might add that good works are not a cause of salvation, while faith is both a cause and a condition for this.30 But the bottom line is that, for Reformed Theology, there are two conditions for final salvation—faith and works!

This articulation of things is clearly foreign, not only to the Apostle Paul, but also to Calvin and Luther, who confronted essentially the same theology in Roman Catholicism.

This is taken from Hodge's critique. I must say I made it further through this than I did his book Absolutely Free. Hodges obviously misunderstands what the Reformation was all about. It was not primarily about final salvation. It was about justification.

Final judgment is based on works, which are the necessary evidence of justification that has already been declared. Justification is by faith alone. Hodges (and other Dispensationalists) obviously confuse a sub-topic (justification) with the major heading (salvation).
 
bookslover said:
As I remember, he was on the wrong side of the Lorship Salvation controversy some years ago.

By the way, Baptist In Crisis, judging by your avatar, you don't look particularly as if you're in crisis. That's a nice, relaxed looking photo you've got there!

Hey! This is my 600th post. Do I win a new car, or something?
Click to expand...

yes you do! It is in the mail...(or something...:D )
 
bookslover said:
As I remember, he was on the wrong side of the Lorship Salvation controversy some years ago.

By the way, Baptist In Crisis, judging by your avatar, you don't look particularly as if you're in crisis. That's a nice, relaxed looking photo you've got there!

Hey! This is my 600th post. Do I win a new car, or something?
Click to expand...
Here you go!
yugo_rear.jpg
 
AV1611 said:
Yes he wrote a book entitled Absolutely Free! which is rank antinomianism. But in order to counter the antinomianism of his postion he holds to millennial exclusion i.e. some Christians will go to hell for 1000 years if they do not live holy lives which stems the teaching of G H Lang (who incidently spoke at the Gospel Hall I left way back).

In my humble opinion Zane Hodges gets a big :down:
Click to expand...
:eek: That sounds like a shorter but nastier Dispensatioanlist Purgatory, no? Thanks, but no thanks, Zane. I'm with you on this, Richard. :down:
 
rwinger61 said:
That tractor beam caught me, but it took about 20 years. It was a long, hard, road from Independent Fundamental Dispensational Baptist to a Covenantal Presbyterian.
Click to expand...

Well the tractor beam had me but it had a latent dispensational virus in its operational program. This caused a massive failure it is hyper-covenantal drive and I was able to escape. I immediately headed for the Gill system and hid on one of the congreational moons of the planet Credo. Our defenses are high and we feel confident we can repluse any attack.

:rofl:
 
BaptistInCrisis said:
Well the tractor beam had me but it had a latent dispensational virus in its operational program. This caused a massive failure it is hyper-covenantal drive and I was able to escape. I immediately headed for the Gill system and hid on one of the congreational moons of the planet Credo. Our defenses are high and we feel confident we can repluse any attack.

:rofl:
Click to expand...

My downfall was an attack by the "Continuity between the Testaments", as my "baptizo=immersion only" had already been destroyed by the Methodists. When I showed up at a Banner Conference in the early 90's as the only Methodist (still credo), the Protestant Reformed and PCA folks made short work of me. Within 10 years I had my kids baptized, and the rest is history.
 
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