RobertPGH1981
Puritan Board Sophomore
All,
Can somebody truly be a christian if they are constantly depressed and have no joy?
Can somebody truly be a christian if they are constantly depressed and have no joy?
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Not trying to infer anything. Just would like to know everyone's opinion on this. Can somebody be born again who claims they never felt Joy, and before and after conversion they were always depressed.
Pain has an element of blank;
It cannot recollect
When it began, or if there was
A time when it was not.
It has no future but itself,
Its infinite realms contain
Its past, enlightened to perceive
New periods of pain.
That is an interesting observation, Ruben. I have witnessed a person displaying this before. It really does seem as if the current state eclipses memories of joy.A person who is intensely depressed may well tell you that they have never experienced any joy; that doesn't mean they haven't, it just means the present crisis is occluding aspects of the past.
That is an interesting observation, Ruben. I have witnessed a person displaying this before. It really does seem as if the current state eclipses memories of joy.A person who is intensely depressed may well tell you that they have never experienced any joy; that doesn't mean they haven't, it just means the present crisis is occluding aspects of the past.
The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear ? (Prov 18:14)
If you've never felt joy, then you've never been saved, full stop. Yes, we can live in great depression, but there will be times of joy, when we realize what God has done for us in Christ. This is why the Psalmist could say, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation" (Psalm 51:12).
The classic case would be the English poet, William Cowper.
Insanity and Spiritual Songs in the Soul of a*Saint Reflections on the Life of William Cowper 1992 Bethlehem Conference for Pastors - Desiring God
Stand Firm | A Little Something on William Cowper & John Newton [Or How To Befriend The Mentally Ill]
And the classic work on depression that comes highly recommended, Spiritual Depression, by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones.
Amazon.com: Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure (9780802813879): David Martyn Lloyd-Jones: Books
There is an additional consideration I would like to suggest: people in the grip of intense emotion tend to make very absolute statements. Emily Dickinson explains it well:
Pain has an element of blank;
It cannot recollect
When it began, or if there was
A time when it was not.
It has no future but itself,
Its infinite realms contain
Its past, enlightened to perceive
New periods of pain.
A person who is intensely depressed may well tell you that they have never experienced any joy; that doesn't mean they haven't, it just means the present crisis is occluding aspects of the past.
All true passion for Christ comes out of a baptism of anguish.
You search the scripture and you’ll find that when God determined to recover a ruined situation he would share his own anguish, for what God saw happening to his church and to his people. And he would find a praying man and he would take that man and literally baptize him in anguish.
You find it in the book of Nehemiah, Jerusalem is in ruins. How is God going to deal with this? How is God going to restore the ruin? Folks, look at me, Jeremiah was not a preacher, he was a career man.
There is an additional consideration I would like to suggest: people in the grip of intense emotion tend to make very absolute statements. Emily Dickinson explains it well:
Pain has an element of blank;
It cannot recollect
When it began, or if there was
A time when it was not.
It has no future but itself,
Its infinite realms contain
Its past, enlightened to perceive
New periods of pain.
A person who is intensely depressed may well tell you that they have never experienced any joy; that doesn't mean they haven't, it just means the present crisis is occluding aspects of the past.
I was asking this question because I was feeling really down, and started to question things in my walk. This statement hit the nail on head for me, and sometimes you have to be reminded of your past joy. I had a lot of things happen in the past year and the depression has been weighing on my heavily. Please pray for me.
If you've never felt joy, then you've never been saved, full stop. Yes, we can live in great depression, but there will be times of joy, when we realize what God has done for us in Christ. This is why the Psalmist could say, "Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation" (Psalm 51:12).
I think this answer gives us our first necessary distinction for discussing the subject -- the difference between joy as emotion and as contemplation. Human personality is not designed to function as a disembodied spirit but as a physical entity in a physical world. Our present physicality is tied to the earth. There are pleasant and painful feelings associated with it. That is a fact. It cannot in and of itself be judged as Christian or non Christian any more than other physical feelings of pain and pleasure. We personally feel a certain way with respect to the world and our physical condition in it. For some people those feelings can be quite painful, and the way man deals with pain is by suppression/depression. That is our natural response. The pain gets too much to deal with so we suppress it. In reality, that is all depression is, but it can also be complicated by numerous physical and psychological factors.
The joy of a believer is of a different kind. It is a deep-seated satisfaction which does not rely on physical conditions in the world or feeling related to the body or even to a specific mental state. It is joy in God, in the contemplation of reconciliation with God, in the present communion which is shared with Him, in the future prospect of being partaker of His glory. It is commanded. It is something which can be "reckoned" even when there is no outward stimulus for it, but only what is contrary to it. It can, then, exist side by side with those other emotions. One can hope against hope, live by the evidence of things not seen. If that is so, it should not be measured or judged by a comparison with these other emotions. It is a joy unspeakable and full of glory, which means it cannot be bound by the limitations of other human feelings. The presence of depression does not indicate the absence of Christian joy.