Regulative Principle

Discussion in 'Worship' started by Ryan&Amber2013, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Sophomore

    So do you think this is how the Lord deals with the modern Evangelical church that has the heart but not the correct outward forms in certain areas? With Jesus being the mediator now of course.

    For a majority of the people, many of them from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet they ate the Passover otherwise than as prescribed. For Hezekiah had prayed for them, saying, "May the good Lord pardon everyone who sets his heart to seek God, the Lord , the God of his fathers, even though not according to the sanctuary's rules of cleanness." And the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people.

    2 Chronicles 30:18‭-‬20
  2. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Jesus mediated even then.....I don't believe God changes, nor grades on curves when it comes to His law and commands; It is my opinion that the Lord will give us what we demand, i.e. doves till we puke, illicit kings, liberal churches that resemble the world, etc.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  3. Gforce9

    Gforce9 Puritan Board Junior

    I agree with Scott....Christ intercedes for frail, fallible people like us daily. For those that are His who totally miss the meaning of worship and the sacraments and have warped views of God and His word, He mediates for them, too. He can do so while being steadfast in His Law because of the precious Mediator.....
  4. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Sophomore

    Amen. So this is the state of the non-regulative church? And as well, it seems that the heart in worship is the most important thing, which is a good thing for us reformed folk to always think about.
  5. Gforce9

    Gforce9 Puritan Board Junior

    I think the phrase "heart in worship" needs to be very clearly defined as the meaning may be varied depending upon the folks using it. In addition, given the biblical definition of the heart of man, less emphasis needs to go there, in my opinion. I am aware of the perversions of my own heart, save for those times that I am self deceived an think I'm better than I really am.......
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  6. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Random thoughts:
    In one way, it may be one of two things, 1) that God is much more tolerant of our age in that it seems as if the present day church is so out of touch with scripture that He is giving more mercy and patience towards her. Consider Nadab and Abihu-God killed them. They had the temple and a more direct relation to God than we will ever know-at least in a practical way...or Uzah, who touched the Ark after being directed never to touch it. Or, on the other hand, 2) He is being much more critical of the church in our age by bringing great blindness upon it....we have the canon to guide us where these people I mention, did not. I would add, the churches that I have been in over the time I have walked w/ the Lord, the percentage of them that are pursuing purity are very low, like 1:10.
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  7. jwithnell

    jwithnell Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    "They had the temple and a more directrelation to God than we will ever know-at least in a practical way."

    This is rather strange given that we have the totality of scripture, one-final sacrificial lamb, and a perfect high priest who intercedes for us. If anything, we have more that shoud be expected of us, not less. We are in serious danger of the light going out for us here in the west if we do not return to God and worship him in the way he has prescribed. And that does take our whole heart -- a warning repeated throughout the prophetic literature.
  8. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Yes, in many ways we are better off. When I mention 'practically', I speak of the miracles that God performed in the Israel's midst, dwelling with them in a great cloud, in the temple, in the ark of the covenant, visiting with the people through the prophets, etc. Meeting w/ Moses in real time, the plagues. The miracles of Christ that people got to witness.

    Yes we have the reality of Christ-but so did they. The great high priest we have is more real for us, but the same Christ mediated for them as well-them looking forward as we look behind. Yes the temple vail is torn open and we have access to where they do not. So, I hear you.
  9. jwithnell

    jwithnell Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I'm in Hebrews right now, so the comparison is fresh in my mind. We share much with our OT brothers, but there is a sweetness in knowing Jesus fully revealed.
  10. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Amen, sister.
  11. BG

    BG Puritan Board Junior

    The church at that time was ignorant of what God expected them to do, that is I think what God was over looking.

    The big question with churches in America is not are they ignorant because they most certainly are, but are they willfully ignorant are they simply choosing not to know the truth because they would rather have comfort and ease and a whole host of other entertaining and amusing things in their churches rather than the living God?
  12. Gforce9

    Gforce9 Puritan Board Junior

    You are on to something here, especially the willful ignorance. I spent 20 years in pop-Evangelicalism. There is another, critical component to the Evangelical mindset: Antinomianism. By and large, they are convinced the only rule for worship is their own "heart". God is pleased with whatever they do with a right "heart". The idea that God has prescribed what we do in worship is an affront to the Evangelical mind. If there is any acknowledgement of a positive command at all, it is the Frame view.....
  13. Joseph Noah Gagliardi

    Joseph Noah Gagliardi Puritan Board Freshman

    Regardless of whether or not we are ignorant, our sins still grieve our father. However, there is aggravation added to our sins when they are willful, grieving our father the more, though He ever a gracious father bears long with His children because He loves them. I think the true distinction to be made is between the wheat and the tares in the church. Often the weeds look very much like the fruitful plants God desires us to be, so He waits until the are grown, and the true child of God will bear fruit, and at long last the weeds will show themselves to be but weeds. And often times the coldness in our devotion to God is because the sheep are led astray by false shepherds, and they are blinded to much of doctrine by those who would see them lost. God purges His church of such wicked ones as would do harm to His sheep. He is ever patient with His children, for they are weak and frail and forgetful; much coldness in duty is from honest ignorance, for how could the one who partakes in Christ and the Holy Spirit, blessed with all spiritual blessings in the heavenly places, how could such a one not exude warmth of soul, though it be often dampened by inattention to duty? So there is the Christian who cares much for the world, and is so often carried away by its pleasures, though they truly rest in Christ. Then there are the aforementioned children of God, who through the false teaching, and influence of wicked men, have a learned carelessness in regard to spiritual duties; God will bear long with this child, though he grieves His heart to see a child so led astray, but it may be that that false minister may be the greater damned for his ill treatment of the sheep. The Lord alone knows the heart of man, and why one have a heart unprepared and lax in the performance of his duties in worship; when the heart is right, and as every believer still inhabiting this body of dust is still a sinner saved, but not living in willful sin, yet lacking the knowledge of how God wishes to be addressed, our father will in no wise turn such a one away, when with humble heart begs for forgiveness and acceptance in his worship. Yet, if one in apathy appears before the throne of grace clad in rags, this angers the LORD, though he be His child, and there are consequences, "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." 1 Corinthians 11:27-30. The Lord is not so pleased to be addressed in impudence, with high hand to assumes upon His grace when we are not clean in heart. The Psalmist well illustrates the heart of the one that God attends to, "Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the God of his salvation. This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah." Psalm 24:3-6. The one the Lord heeds and answers is the one who does not approach the LORD of glory falsely with reservation in his soul, nor hath "sworn deceitfully".
  14. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    Obviously, we don't see God striking people down bc they don't follow the RPW, but I do think God withholds his blessings of graces and sanctification when they are not following his instructions. He will hold the leaders responsible for their "ignorance" and for leading the people astray. One example is keeping the Sabbath. A church who has two services (not the same sermon taught multiple times either) will receive more from God than a church who holds only one service. A congregation who observes the Sabbath Day will receive more from God than a congregation who doesn't observe the Sabbath. A church who teaches truth will receive more from God than a church which teaches partial truths. Churches who do not follow God's instructions are poor in health and poor in the things of God. This is his judgment on them. Five churches in Revelation were scolded by God and their spiritual health was poor bc they did not follow the instructions of God. Two churches in Revelation were commended by God and they were spiritually healthy bc they did follow God's instructions.
  15. Clark-Tillian

    Clark-Tillian Puritan Board Freshman

    Regarding Nadab and Abihu, they held a position of much greater "official" responsibility than the average Israelite, and therefore held greater accountability in 2nd Word matters. The Lord takes into account the level of knowledge and instruction a person (or a church) has in these matters. For example, a person has been converted for 1 week and has zero understanding of corporate regulative principles. He visits a Reformed church that is doing its best to follow the 2nd Word (not a given today), and in the middle of the sermon, stands up starts clapping and screaming "praises", for two minutes. If that occurred while I was preaching, I would simply continue, greet the person after the service, and arrange a house visit to begin instruction. If my Clerk of Session did the same thing my reply would be arctic.

    Regarding the heart, that is the Lord's purview. The Spirit does bestow the gifting of discernment to whom He wills. However, that is, as I see it, the ability to interpret a person's external behavior and infer a deeper understanding of that behavior. Mind reading is ruled out of court. Our Lord possessed the discernment to truly see people's hearts. I cringe when I think of the pain that must've brought to Him. To see the genuine tar in the hearts of people had to have been brutal. It is no wonder He was the Man of Sorrows.
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