Rev 20:14 and annihilationism

[Mathetes]

So I have a friend who once believed in annihilationism...I showed him some of the things that make that belief wrong and he gave it up. Apparently he's back into it again, although I'm not sure what the reasons are this time. I remember the last time we discussed it, this passage came up and he seems to think that death being cast into the lake of fire somehow proves that the souls of the damned are 'extinguished' at the time of judgment.

I'm not sure how that proves it, but regardless I'm not sure that I can properly wrap my head around this passage anyways. Does anyone perhaps have some commentary passages on this verse that they could share? Thanks.

 

[rbcbob]

In the New Heavens and the New Earth there will be no more pain, no more sorrow, no more death. The redeemed of the Lord will dwell on the New Earth where the wicked will not be found.

Revelation 21:4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

 

[Mathetes]

While I sincerely appreciate your effort, that's actually a different passage than the one I'm referring to. This is the one I had in mind:

Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

 

[rbcbob]

While I sincerely appreciate your effort, that's actually a different passage than the one I'm referring to. This is the one I had in mind:

Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

My response in post #2 was actually to the point that your friends interpretation of Rev 20:14 cannot and does not prove annihilationism.

 

[Romans 9:16]

The text (Rev 20:14) appears to be referring to the casting of the dammed into the state and condition of perpetual and penultimate suffering. The Lake of Fire is styled as a place of conscious torment in Rev 20:10. Surely the point of the apostle’s imagery is to communicate the idea of the pain of burning, not the reality of burning up. It is a picture of agony, not of agony’s end.

God has eternally purposed to make the reprobate a standing monument to the glory of His freedom and His holy, infinite vengeance (Rom 9:22-23). Perhaps the elect will occasionally approach the railing at the edge of paradise to look down and beyond that dreadful chasm that separates the lake of fire from the river of life (Luke 16:26). Such glances will render our hearts ever thankful for God’s electing grace and Lamb who was slain in the place of that horrible place.

 

[southern]

Mathetes,

If you have a friend that has been struggling with this, you may be interested in purchasing a copy of "Hell Under Fire" (Zondervan).

If time allows, I may come back and offer you some of the thoughts presented in this book. I have found it a great tool in understanding and answering common objections from the Annihilationist viewpoint.

 

[PuritanZealot]

The thing I've always said to these people who offer some hope for people who commit sin and don't accept the gospel (because that's what annihilationism is, false hope) is that any change in Hell or Heaven breaks with God's promises. Heaven and Hell must be polar opposites, one in total union with God, one in total opposition and separateness from God. The rule therefore follows that it must be eternal and it must be of permanent intensity. Anyone who has been in incredible pain or incredible bliss will tell you, as soon as the pain stops for even a second, that moment feels better (or worse) than anything you could possibly imagine. So for those dwelling in Hell, the moment the suffering ceased for even a millisecond, in theory that moment would actually be better than being in Heaven, respite from pain is often (in the testimony of torture victims) better than anything they've ever felt. The same goes for Heaven, if there was a moment of separation from God after the centuries of bliss in union, it would feel worse than anything Hell could offer, that moment of split from the Union would be shattering. So Heaven and Hell must be continuous, eternal, bliss or suffering. Annihilationism teaches a false doctrine that God is too nice to punish people for eternity, most of it is contrary to scripture just because weak theologians can't fathom the length and breadth of God's wrath.