Rick Warren to market the Puritans

Status
Not open for further replies.
elnwood said:
My concern is that you may be binding men's consciences not by scripture but by church edicts. If you wish to declare Warren a heresy based on a rejection of fundamentals of the gospel, that's fine (but I do not agree). But I cringe when you argue that he is a heretic based on the rejection of doctrines formulated by fallible church declarations.
Click to expand...


Do you believe you can only be saved by grace alone, through faith alone, because of Christ alone? Can you find that verse, or is it a good summary of scripture? My guess is that Rick Warren would probably affirm those three solas while not using the protestant definitions for them. And so we need to review the confessions in order to have unity; in order to discern whom is approved.

Everyone uses the Bible as their sole authority! So why are there so many differences of opinion? The church has codified doctrine for unity.

If the confession divides people, that is a good thing.
 
Last edited:
With Warren here’s what ALWAYS happens when he’s questioned: If you quote him, it’s “out of context”, but then if you give whole entire books the defenders will then themselves “pull out quotes” to defend the thrust of the other errors. In short and in reality if anyone is taking Rick Warren quotes out of context it is his defenders who find the occasional “sounds like” the Gospel statements ignoring the entire thrust of his teachings to the contrary. It’s kind of like this; you can ask ANY “church” group if they believe in the bible and they will say yes. But that doesn’t mean a thing!

In Kentucky I’ve seen first hand multiple times the devastation that Warren’s bible, PDL and PDC, destroying, yes, destroying entire congregations. Particularly in the SB community to which I formerly belonged. You either get on board with the program or get out, never question it if you do you are not defending doctrine but trying to cause trouble in the church. The rich irony of that is that PDL/PDC CAUSED split and divisiveness in the church. Slowly over time what you see happen is that the believers are exiled to find other churches that have not been infected with this poison, while the present church becomes increasingly a gathering of unbelievers. That’s how it slips in for who is going to argue against a good guy doing good things, it forbids the Gospel. Yet, the Cross of Christ strikes most deeply at man’s self righteousness which is another way to say unrighteousness that’s outwardly pretty. And never forget that Rome too officially speaks of the grace of Christ but then turns around and curses the REAL Gospel. E.g. CANON XI.-If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; let him be anathema.

Warren’s road back to the Papacy and a cursed gospel: Rick Warren said, “You know, 500 years ago, the first Reformation with Luther and then Calvin, was about beliefs. I think a new reformation is going to be about behavior. The first Reformation was about creeds; I think this one will be about deeds. ... The first Reformation actually split Christianity into dozens and then hundreds of different segments. I think this one is actually going to bring them together. Now, you’re never going to get Christians, of all their stripes and varieties, to agree on all of the different doctrinal disputes and things like that, but what I am seeing them agree on are the purposes of the church. ... Last week I spoke to 4,000 pastors at my church who came from over 100 denominations in over 50 countries. Now, that’s wide spread. We had Catholic priests, we had Pentecostal ministers, we had Lutheran bishops, we had Anglican bishops, we had Baptist preachers. They’re all there together and you know what? I’d never get them to agree on communion or baptism or a bunch of stuff like that, but I could get them to agree on what the church should be doing in the world”

--Pew Forum May 2005

Rick Warren on evil: “In fact, I don't think evil and sin are the same... We don't know the answers...we really don't...none of us are going to come out at the end of the day and say 'got that one figured out.' If you do please write the book on it and I will buy it.....I don't think it [evil] is the same thing as sin...I don't consider myself an evil person because I sin...I think you have to reserve the word 'evil' for 'evil'....I haven't yet found a good definition of it...maybe Peter has. I was the one who suggested this topic by the way because I wanted to hear what Alan and Peter had to say about it because these are two men I have respected for years read all their stuff and I really came to take notes....We can become an evil person by making bad choices....I think evil is metastization where it just takes over....”

--July 2005 Aspen Institute

But yet Jesus Christ certainly endured the destitute wrath of God for this light and minor thing called sin. His blood was shed for sin, yet according to St. Warren sin is not evil. We must conclude from the untouchable St. Warren that Jesus didn’t die for the real thing, evil, but this trifling little peccadillo called sin. And then we must conclude from Warren’s diatribe on sin and evil that man is left to finish the heavy job of dealing with real evil, being Jesus only died for this inconsequential little thing called sin.

Next Rick Warren sets himself up to unquestionable. Who are the ‘fundamentalist Christians’ he is setting up for future persecutions if they should oppose? Those who hold to imputed righteousness? Jesus didn’t come to bring the peace men love, but peace with God. And this peace with God call the Cross of Christ indeed causes war among men for men hate the Cross of Christ. So, what is Warren setting Christians up for who dare point out his deceptions?

“'I would trust any man or priest or rabbi to know what is going on in a community before I would any government agency.'
But, powerful as churches can be in working for the powerless, they can't succeed without governments and nongovernmental organizations, Warren said.
Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be 'one of the big enemies of the 21st century...Muslim fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, secular fundamentalism - they're all motivated by fear. Fear of each other.'"

Beware, the devil rarely announces, “I’m the devil come to deceive you.”

L
 
trevorjohnson said:
When does Rick Warren bashing become sinful?

A serious question.

Often we make fun of him and speak generalizations about him. How often do we quote his words directly and attack them instead of insult the man?
Click to expand...


Trevor, I see your question as a good 'caution' but perhaps the wrong question. The question should be, "at what point ARE we justified in bashing Rick Warren?".

If we examine Rick Warren with a microscope and criticize what we see then we will learn more about ourselves then we will of Rick Warren. We represent all the ideas and convictions that made up the roots of the Reformation. We don't agree on the fine points any more than the 40 to 50 groups that made up the roots of reform back in the 16th century.

What we DO agree on, as did our fore fathers, is that the church needs to be reformed and needs to return to a biblical standard. We all agree that reformation is imperative but until Christ returns we will not agree completely on how reformation should look.

This is the one great characterization of the Reformation that gets overlooked - that no two groups of reformers could agree, from Marburg to Muenster.

Rick Warren is not a reformer. We don't need a microscope to see that. Rick Warren is moving the church in a direction that should be repugnant to anyone who believes in the synthesis of doctrines that came out of western Europe in the 16th century. We, as 'puritan' minds, as the 'R'eformed and the 'r'eformed are justified in 'bashing' Rick Warren and any church leader who is robbing the church of it's relevancy. Rick Warren is a worldling, a compromiser, a man pleaser. Mr. Warren grows the church through syncretism much as the Roman Catholic Church was doing in Luther's day.

So I believe that we are justified in bashing Mr. Warren, however we will disagree on how much patience and gentility should be manifested while we are bashing him according to the gifts we have been given.

Listen to Dr. Clarks intro to his Crosstalk programs. He speaks so clearly about this dichotomy between the reformed folk and churches like Warrens. Listen to volume 1 here.
 
Last edited:
This was a Refreshing Post ! Thanks for taking the time to point out some obvious truths here. :up:


elnwood said:
I do think that Rick Warren is in error on some important issues, but I consider him a brother in Christ and not a false teacher or hell-bound.

Christ is present in his books. The gospel is present in his books. Maybe not in the depth or the manner that you would like, but it is there.

The statement of faith at his church is clear on the gospel. There is nothing objectionable aside from terms such as Christ dying for "all men," which is a term the bible uses, so we ought not protest too much.

His church contributes a lot of money and effort to foreign missions for the spread of the gospel.

His church consistently exercises church discipline, putting out hundreds of members a year.

He is exemplary in his finances, not taking a salary from church (and has actually given back all his previous salary earned) and puts 90% of his book sales income back into the ministry.

I'm not saying that we should not look critically at other aspects of his ministry, but there is a lot to commend, and Reformed churches could learn a lot from Rick Warren. Unfortunately, my experience is that Reformed churches spend more time nitpicking and pointing fingers at other brothers in Christ instead of taking the time of learning from one another.

If we call ourselves "Reformed," we have to be willing to continue to look at the good in other ministries and critically at ourselves as well, and be shaped and molded instead of thinking that we have been doing it perfectly for the last five hundred years.
Click to expand...
 
Robin wrote:
Trevor, fish through the truckload of back posts here at PB to collect the big picture of RW.

Fishing would do no good if all I encounter are straw men. If we assert something enough times it still does not make it so. There are many generalizations and opinions given about RW but very few direct quotations. I don't like the guy myself, but I want to deal with the truth and not a straw man.

Also, Robin, I would not put RW in the same class as a Jehovah's Witness. To do so is almost slander - or maybe is a lie against his character. He would assert the basic Christian doctrines. I am surprised that you have done "research" for 3 years on RW. If you have, give me some direct quotes that prove he is a hell bound heretic.



John wrote:When did the church stop using the word heresy?
I am glad that we are not quick to jump to use this term anymore. A heretic is going to hell. Those who err are not nccessarily heretics. To jump to a reactionary name calling approach does not glorify Christ.



Bob...thanks so much for your post. It was, indeed, refreshing.



Larry Hughes: Thanks for providing direct quotations. Rick Warren is at least entitled to a fair trial.
 
Some thoughts...

Exposing the darkness of Rick Warren IS NOT slander. I have always spoken to what I have directly learned and always in reponse to Warren's public teachings or actions. (How does bashing comport with Scripture's mandate to judge rightly and expose false teachings?)

What Christian pastor would have hula dancers in front of the pulpit ("hula" is a pagan dance to the god Pele) and claim they're dancing for "Jesus"?

Explain how a Protestant pastor can write a curriculum that is used in Roman Catholic churches?

http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/40DayCampaigns/PurposeDrivenChurches/Catholics/PDCatholics.htm

Curiously and odd is Warren "missionaries" promoting the PDL books instead of the Bible:

http://www.extremetheology.com/2006/12/missionaries_fo.html

There's much more. Warren's teachings continue to go way beyond small matters.

:um:
 
Error and Heresy needs to be exposed. It does not need to be exposed in an Entertainment and Humor forum In my humble opinion. As believers who have "nothing good that we did not receive" from the father, how can we make light of another brother's error? We should not exhibit a hawdy sense of pride and arrogance at another brother's error, but pray for him. We do need to expose errors, but we need to remember to do it with the spirit of Christ. Each one of us has lived and walked in sin. Each one of us has lived in error. Each one of us, at some point in our life, has held an incorrect doctrine. All things to keep in mind.
 
Personally, I didn't see it poking fun at the gent other than the redone book cover. It merely pointed out 1) the difference between a present day Christian writer and a historical one (and I do believe the historical one would roll over in his grave...course, I also think several historical women would likewise roll over for anything I would write) 2) showed that historical Christians and their writings have been forgotten and ignored by much of the church today.
 
You made a mistake in copying the link. Yours pointed to the google servers. I'm actually not sure how you got the link you did as everything past the server name appears to be correct!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

DMcFadden
  • Locked
Rick Warren and the Entertainment Field
Replies
2
Views
2K
MrMerlin777
MrMerlin777
panta dokimazete
  • Locked
Rick Warren Meets Stephen Colbert
Replies
7
Views
2K
DMcFadden
DMcFadden
DMcFadden
  • Locked
If Rick Warren was Jonathan Edwards?
Replies
12
Views
2K
Caroline
Caroline
R
  • Locked
Rick Warren/Music Manipulations
Replies
5
Views
2K
alwaysreforming
A
Blueridge Believer
  • Locked
The "message" For Puritans
Replies
6
Views
2K
calgal
C
Back
Top