RTS Orlando
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greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
It is a mixed bag. On the one hand, you've got John Muether and Charles Hill, both as solid as they come. On the other hand, you've got Waltke, Frame, and Kidd, who are anything but confessionally Reformed. Nicole is good, but emeritus, as is Kistemaker. Futato is a lot like Meredith Kline (taught with Kline at WSC for a while), with Kline's good points and not-so-good points. Overall, as a seminary, I cannot recommend it. RTS Jackson is much much more solid, as is Charlotte.
You cannot recommend Frame as a professor? Is it because of his views on the RPW?
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Of the RTS campuses, Charlotte is far and away the most BIbilically-oriented, well-rounded in terms of faculty, and attractively located.
Jackson has a solid foundation, but needs to attract more full-time faculty and MDiv students, In my humble opinion, to remain viable.
Jackson has a solid foundation, but needs to attract more full-time faculty and MDiv students, In my humble opinion, to remain viable.
The new President at the Charlotte campus is a very godly man. He is confessionally solid and will do a great job in keeping that school as a Reformed seminary. I would highly recommend the Charlotte campus, but I agree with Lane about the Orlando campus. Sproul, Sr. was very concerned about its direction before he stopped teaching there a number of years ago.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Anyone know if RTS-Charlotte will ever offer a Th.M?
Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
I am graduating from RTS Jackson in a week 
I have liked RTS Jackson and especially the Bible, History, and Theology departments.
They have actually just hired at least one if not two professors (full-time) [Apologetics/Philosophy and Old Testament].
I would recommend Charlotte or Jackson. I agree with what others have said about Orlando above.
For expenditures, if you have some money go to Charlotte (living costs are really expensive) if you are not familiar with money then I'd suggest going to Jackson (living costs are less than most places and it is a good cultural experience).
I have liked RTS Jackson and especially the Bible, History, and Theology departments.
They have actually just hired at least one if not two professors (full-time) [Apologetics/Philosophy and Old Testament].
I would recommend Charlotte or Jackson. I agree with what others have said about Orlando above.
For expenditures, if you have some money go to Charlotte (living costs are really expensive) if you are not familiar with money then I'd suggest going to Jackson (living costs are less than most places and it is a good cultural experience).
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Barnes is a dead man
Now that Barnes is gone, not worth attending any more.
Barnes, just wait till I get you on the floor of presbytery.
You might want to acquaint yourself with all the kings of Judah, and Israel, and Assyria, and their wives, and how long they reigned, and what the years were.
Oh, yeah, and I would read all of Owen too.
Now that Barnes is gone, not worth attending any more.
Barnes, just wait till I get you on the floor of presbytery.
You might want to acquaint yourself with all the kings of Judah, and Israel, and Assyria, and their wives, and how long they reigned, and what the years were.
Oh, yeah, and I would read all of Owen too.
Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
Now that Barnes is gone, not worth attending any more.
Barnes, just wait till I get you on the floor of presbytery.
You might want to acquaint yourself with all the kings of Judah, and Israel, and Assyria, and their wives, and how long they reigned, and what the years were.
Oh, yeah, and I would read all of Owen too.
HA, I don't think I have to worry about your questions, you haven't been showing up lately!!!
I would request that you not ask me any questions...PLEASE!!!
Romans922
Puritan Board Professor
What are you interested in?
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Trashing Andrew and Confessional Profs.
Keep digging your grave, son!
Here's my vote
And, to the person who is not concerned about the confessionalism of profs: Trust me, you will regret it later, if you aren't aware and concerned about it now.
Keep digging your grave, son!
Here's my vote
And, to the person who is not concerned about the confessionalism of profs: Trust me, you will regret it later, if you aren't aware and concerned about it now.
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greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
You aren't? You should be concerned. People who are not confessionally Reformed will lead people away from the Reformed faith, not closer to it.
Dogfreid
Puritan Board Freshman
Andrew, great question! I should have stated this from the beginning.
My goal is to be as equipped as possible to to do any of the following in the future with excellence: 1) Pastor, 2) Teach, 3) Write (in no order). Maybe it's just one of these, maybe two, maybe all three.
Apropos #1, since I haven't as of yet discovered which denomination I am "in the tank for," I don't have a preference as to whether or not my professors are from this group or that group, or this confession or that confession or no confession. I would want them to be Calvinistic, but my primary concern is that they'd teach their subject matter really well.
Apropos #3, I'm wondering what an M.Div from RTS Orlando can do to prepare me in this regard. I understand that no seminary will be able to create talent where there are no intimations of talent to begin with, but compared to other seminaries, how effective would an M.Div from RTS Orlando be in preparing me for a career of theological writing?
Feel free to recommend other seminaries.
My goal is to be as equipped as possible to to do any of the following in the future with excellence: 1) Pastor, 2) Teach, 3) Write (in no order). Maybe it's just one of these, maybe two, maybe all three.
Apropos #1, since I haven't as of yet discovered which denomination I am "in the tank for," I don't have a preference as to whether or not my professors are from this group or that group, or this confession or that confession or no confession. I would want them to be Calvinistic, but my primary concern is that they'd teach their subject matter really well.
Apropos #3, I'm wondering what an M.Div from RTS Orlando can do to prepare me in this regard. I understand that no seminary will be able to create talent where there are no intimations of talent to begin with, but compared to other seminaries, how effective would an M.Div from RTS Orlando be in preparing me for a career of theological writing?
Feel free to recommend other seminaries.
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Confession Geeks and Anti-Confession Worldlings
Berny,
I think what you would find is that the less confessional a prof is, the points at which he takes issue with the confession, is precisely its Calvinism, not whether taking the trash out on Sunday is a violation of the Fourth Commandment.
Trust me, as one who's been there, you want conservative guys, no matter what denom you end up in. The war in the seminaries is between the guys that reverence the past, and have learned from it (but are not bound by it), versus the guys who want to shuttle it completely. There really doesn't seem to be much middle ground.
And, Barnes, no matter how confessional you are, you are still toast when you come up before MVP. You've ticked off the wrong preacher!
Berny,
I think what you would find is that the less confessional a prof is, the points at which he takes issue with the confession, is precisely its Calvinism, not whether taking the trash out on Sunday is a violation of the Fourth Commandment.
Trust me, as one who's been there, you want conservative guys, no matter what denom you end up in. The war in the seminaries is between the guys that reverence the past, and have learned from it (but are not bound by it), versus the guys who want to shuttle it completely. There really doesn't seem to be much middle ground.
And, Barnes, no matter how confessional you are, you are still toast when you come up before MVP. You've ticked off the wrong preacher!
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Dogfreid
Puritan Board Freshman
My own background is that I've become a Calvinist apart from the confessions and apart from confessionally-guided Reformed. While they mean a lot to me in that I agree with most everything they have to say much more than I agree with other confessions and creedal statements, I'm not too interested in any "one" way of Calvinistic adaptation for ministry. At least not at this point.
I actually identify with someone like Dr. Frame much more than I do with someone who is more closely attached to the confessional identity.
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
In one of the endnotes in Salvation Belongs to the Lord (which is an excellent book on the whole), Dr. Frame says that Norman Shepherd's views on justification are within the Reformed tradition - even though he claims to disagree with them.
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
Personally, these are the seminaries I recommend: Westminster California, New Geneva, MARS, Westminster Dallas, RTS Jackson and Charlotte, Greenville, and maybe Westminster East, if the biblical studies departments achieve greater confessionalism.
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
A friend of mine - who is now a Baptist Pastor in Co. Donegal - did a Masters at Westminster East. He told me that many in the Biblical departments were sympathetic to the NPP.
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Then Orlando's probably the place for you.
Nobody there knows what they believe. There is no unifying identity.
That is why they are out flying blind on the gender egalitarianism front, too.
You might want to consider a little humility before the confessions. They are not SCriptures, but they do show how the Holy SPirit has shaped the mind of the church.
THe church is not a bunch of freewheeling individuals left to their own private interpretations of Scripture. It is a community of faith working out its beliefs with fear and trembling coram deo.
Make mistakes? Sure it has.
But, what you have said is like saying "Well, I like the Nicene Creed, I guess. I find myself closer to it than other creeds. But I really don't see why it's necessary."
Well, it's necessary because somebody attacked Jesus. And the only way to defend his honor and name is by clearly stating where the church stands. Creeds did not come out nowhere. They would not be necessary if it weren't for heresy.
So, to denigrate them is to despise how the Holy Spirit works in the churches, and really to despise the church as the community of faith. This is the whole problem with unaccountable ecclesiastical scholars, too. They don't have to answer to the pew for their gospel-obscuring oddities. But, their sycophantic followers go out and wreck churches with them.
Be very wary of this. Sorry if this comes across as harsh.
Nobody there knows what they believe. There is no unifying identity.
That is why they are out flying blind on the gender egalitarianism front, too.
You might want to consider a little humility before the confessions. They are not SCriptures, but they do show how the Holy SPirit has shaped the mind of the church.
THe church is not a bunch of freewheeling individuals left to their own private interpretations of Scripture. It is a community of faith working out its beliefs with fear and trembling coram deo.
Make mistakes? Sure it has.
But, what you have said is like saying "Well, I like the Nicene Creed, I guess. I find myself closer to it than other creeds. But I really don't see why it's necessary."
Well, it's necessary because somebody attacked Jesus. And the only way to defend his honor and name is by clearly stating where the church stands. Creeds did not come out nowhere. They would not be necessary if it weren't for heresy.
So, to denigrate them is to despise how the Holy Spirit works in the churches, and really to despise the church as the community of faith. This is the whole problem with unaccountable ecclesiastical scholars, too. They don't have to answer to the pew for their gospel-obscuring oddities. But, their sycophantic followers go out and wreck churches with them.
Be very wary of this. Sorry if this comes across as harsh.
Dogfreid
Puritan Board Freshman
Ken,
Thanks for taking the time to reply! Your insight is appreciated.
I agree that it is important to sit under the teaching of conservative teachers as opposed to more liberal ones. I wouldn't be interested in learning from somebody who wants to "shuttle the past completely." Instead, I'd love to train under men who learn from the past but are not bound by it, as you put it. My current pastor is a great example of this.
Thanks for taking the time to reply! Your insight is appreciated.
I agree that it is important to sit under the teaching of conservative teachers as opposed to more liberal ones. I wouldn't be interested in learning from somebody who wants to "shuttle the past completely." Instead, I'd love to train under men who learn from the past but are not bound by it, as you put it. My current pastor is a great example of this.
greenbaggins
Puritan Board Doctor
Who is your friend? I knew an Irishman at seminary. It might be the same guy. Definitely, some of them at WTS are sympathetic. However, there is question as to whether or not they will stay.
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
Barry Reid. He is from Larne.
And, Barnes, no matter how confessional you are, you are still toast when you come up before MVP. You've ticked off the wrong preacher!
Po Andwoo,
He ain godda chance.
Andrew,
Just treck yorn hiney on up here to the Ohio Presbyters and plead your case.
Dogfreid
Puritan Board Freshman
Ken, you wrote:
"But, what you have said is like saying 'Well, I like the Nicene Creed, I guess. I find myself closer to it than other creeds. But I really don't see why it's necessary.'"
But I haven't said anything like this.
I actually consider the Reformed confessions the purest expressions of the Christian faith around. Hopefully you don't still think that I've "denigrated" them.
"But, what you have said is like saying 'Well, I like the Nicene Creed, I guess. I find myself closer to it than other creeds. But I really don't see why it's necessary.'"
But I haven't said anything like this.
I actually consider the Reformed confessions the purest expressions of the Christian faith around. Hopefully you don't still think that I've "denigrated" them.
I have had acquaintances who would recommend Greenville. If I could go somewhere it would probably be there or to Mid America since it is closer to home and Cornelius P. Venema is there.
Greenvile Presbyterian Theological Seminary
Mid America Reformed Seminary
Greenvile Presbyterian Theological Seminary
Mid America Reformed Seminary
KenPierce
Puritan Board Freshman
Denigrating Confessions
Berny,
Sorry if the response was heated.
Just take it from those of us who have been through seminaries (and I am not a hidebound type, I don't think). The problem with seminaries is that they are academic in the bad sense --that is, too many profs think the seminary exists for the sake of the academy.
They forget that the seminary serves the church, and primarily the pulpit.
Thus, confessional fidelity is a sine qua non, is it not? Again, the confessions aren't Scripture --the WCF could probably be improved upon at certain points (more for clarity and consistency than anything else). The point is, it's not up to individuals to alter confessions. It is not up to seminary profs, no matter how learned they are. It is up to presbyters meeting, and struggling, and debating, and, most of all, praying.
The reason we have so much discord in the PCA currently is, at least in part, because we have everyone just doing what is right in his own eyes, and no-one reverencing the communion of the saints as the primary key for finding out the mind of Christ in the Scriptures.
We need the church!
Here endeth the sermon
Andrew, if you even hint at going to another presbytery to get ordained, I will hunt you down like a dog.
Berny,
Sorry if the response was heated.
Just take it from those of us who have been through seminaries (and I am not a hidebound type, I don't think). The problem with seminaries is that they are academic in the bad sense --that is, too many profs think the seminary exists for the sake of the academy.
They forget that the seminary serves the church, and primarily the pulpit.
Thus, confessional fidelity is a sine qua non, is it not? Again, the confessions aren't Scripture --the WCF could probably be improved upon at certain points (more for clarity and consistency than anything else). The point is, it's not up to individuals to alter confessions. It is not up to seminary profs, no matter how learned they are. It is up to presbyters meeting, and struggling, and debating, and, most of all, praying.
The reason we have so much discord in the PCA currently is, at least in part, because we have everyone just doing what is right in his own eyes, and no-one reverencing the communion of the saints as the primary key for finding out the mind of Christ in the Scriptures.
We need the church!
Here endeth the sermon
Andrew, if you even hint at going to another presbytery to get ordained, I will hunt you down like a dog.
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