Sabbath as universal moral law

[elnwood]

If the Sabbath, as part of the Ten Commandments, is a universal moral law, then it is part of general revelation, not special revelation, and all people should have that law written on their hearts and be obligated to obey it.

Have all peoples on the earth been obligated to rest from their labor on the sixth day (Saturday) from creation until Christ's resurrection because of the moral law written on their hearts?

What about after Christ's resurrection, when the day is changed to Sunday? Would a people group with no access to special revelation that observed Saturday then be breaking the law because they were observing the wrong day?

Is the actual day of the Sabbath (Saturday or Sunday) part of general revelation or special revelation?

 

[Scott1]

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XXI
Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day

....

VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]

VIII. This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39]

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If the Sabbath, as part of the Ten Commandments, is a universal moral law, then it is part of general revelation, not special revelation, and all people should have that law written on their hearts and be obligated to obey it.

It was an ordinance at Creation and was explicitly stated on Mount Sinai.

Have all peoples on the earth been obligated to rest from their labor on the sixth day (Saturday) from creation until Christ's resurrection because of the moral law written on their hearts?

Yes

What about after Christ's resurrection, when the day is changed to Sunday? Would a people group with no access to special revelation that observed Saturday then be breaking the law because they were observing the wrong day?

The emphasis was on one seventh as a proportion of time. It gives evidence of creation and redemption. When our Lord rose on the third day (Sunday), news of that quickly spread to Christians who began the Christian Sabbath, on the Lord's Day, in honor and recognition of that.

Is the actual day of the Sabbath (Saturday or Sunday) part of general revelation or special revelation?
Again, the emphasis was more on one seventh as a due proportion of time, and has been carried on since the beginning of time.

.

 

[rbcbob]

If the Sabbath, as part of the Ten Commandments, is a universal moral law, then it is part of general revelation, not special revelation, and all people should have that law written on their hearts and be obligated to obey it.

The Sabbath is a Creation ordinance as is Marriage and Labor. The Sabbath was codified into the moral Law on Mount Sinai.

Have all peoples on the earth been obligated to rest from their labor on the sixth day (Saturday) from creation until Christ's resurrection because of the moral law written on their hearts?

All mankind is obligated to give one seventh of their week exclusively to the Lord. Even the Old Covenant people of God, who would have lost track of the days of the week in captivity, were still obligated to give to the Lord (willfully in their hearts, though their bodies were owned by their masters) His due.

Is the actual day of the Sabbath (Saturday or Sunday) part of general revelation or special revelation?

Special Revelation, in both Covenants.

 

[elnwood]

Have all peoples on the earth been obligated to rest from their labor on the sixth day (Saturday) from creation until Christ's resurrection because of the moral law written on their hearts?
Yes

What about after Christ's resurrection, when the day is changed to Sunday? Would a people group with no access to special revelation that observed Saturday then be breaking the law because they were observing the wrong day?
The emphasis was on one seventh as a proportion of time.

Is the actual day of the Sabbath (Saturday or Sunday) part of general revelation or special revelation?
Again, the emphasis was more on one seventh as a due proportion of time, and has been carried on since the beginning of time.

I'm a little confused on what you're saying. You wrote above that "Yes," all peoples were obligated to observe the sixth day as part of special revelation. Then you say that the emphasis was on the one in seven, implying that the actual day is not part of special revelation. So which is it?

Say an unreached people group has always observed a Wednesday rest and has no special revelation. Are they breaking any universal law of general revelation because of the wrong day?

Also, you wrote twice that the emphasis was on one day in seven. If you meant the emphasis in the Westminster Confession is one day in seven, I would agree.

However, I wonder if one could say that the emphasis in Scripture was on one day in seven. Genesis and Exodus stresses the sixth day as a day set apart, rather then emphasizing a "one seventh as a due proportion," and there is no indication that observing another day was permissible or a secondary issue.

 

[KMK]

However, I wonder if one could say that the emphasis in Scripture was on one day in seven.

In a sense one could. After all, how do we know for sure that the Saturday of today is exactly a multiple of seven from the 6th day of creation. If nothing else, Joshua's longest day threw things off. And, in fact, if memory serves, Samoa switched to the other side of the International Date Line about 100 years ago and had two Mondays in a row. Therefore, the next Sabbath was on the 9th day.

However, this does not imply that individuals within a community are free to choose which day is the first of the week. That job has always belonged to the religious community. How can you sanctify a day for corporate worship otherwise? To go against the religious community would be to go against the commandment.

 

[MW]

Say an unreached people group has always observed a Wednesday rest and has no special revelation. Are they breaking any universal law of general revelation because of the wrong day?

There was a people group in the New Testament which culturally and customarily rested on the last day of the week; nevertheless, we find positive examples of Christian worship on the first day of the week. The customary practice of the people group is no guide to the day of worship for the Christian church. The resurrection took place on the first day of the week. That remains an unchanging fact of revelation irrespective of the customs of the people to whom Christ is preached.

 

[Scott1]

have all peoples on the earth been obligated to rest from their labor on the sixth day (saturday) from creation until Christ's resurrection because of the moral law written on their hearts?
yes

what about after Christ's resurrection, when the day is changed to sunday? Would a people group with no access to special revelation that observed saturday then be breaking the law because they were observing the wrong day?
the emphasis was on one seventh as a proportion of time.

is the actual day of the sabbath (saturday or sunday) part of general revelation or special revelation?
again, the emphasis was more on one seventh as a due proportion of time, and has been carried on since the beginning of time.

i'm a little confused on what you're saying. You wrote above that "yes," all peoples were obligated to observe the sixth day as part of special revelation. Then you say that the emphasis was on the one in seven, implying that the actual day is not part of special revelation. So which is it?

the creation ordinance established that pattern, and it was binding, implicitly upon all men in those generations.

When given explicitly in exodus, it refers to the seventh day, so as the westminster confession describes it, a one seventh "due proportion" of time is the heart of the commandment.

say an unreached people group has always observed a wednesday rest and has no special revelation. Are they breaking any universal law of general revelation because of the wrong day?

are they worshipping the god of heaven (on the wrong day)? If they are worshipping something god made (romans 1 describes this), rather than god, they are not obeying. It is one more grounds for their condemnation.

also, you wrote twice that the emphasis was on one day in seven. If you meant the emphasis in the westminster confession is one day in seven, i would agree.

the confession summarizes the doctrine of scripture, both old and new testaments, you may find helpful looking at the scripture proofs.

however, i wonder if one could say that the emphasis in scripture was on one day in seven. Genesis and exodus stresses the sixth day as a day set apart, rather then emphasizing a "one seventh as a due proportion," and there is no indication that observing another day was permissible or a secondary issue.

Actually, Exodus emphasizes the seventh day.

Notice also the pattern, work six, rest (sabbath) one.

exodus 20

remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10but the seventh day is the sabbath of the lord thy god: In it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11for in six days the lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: Wherefore the lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

.

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And notice how that is restated, in Deuteronomy 5:

12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

 

[py3ak]

That a proportion of time be set apart to God is a matter of natural law. What amount of time and when it should fall is a matter of special revelation. But mankind had access to knowledge of the original Sabbath because they are descended from Adam, and so if that knowledge was lost at some point it was lost through negligence. And wherever special revelation reaches now with the knowledge of Christ and His resurrection, of course the change of the day is also communicated.

 

[Pergamum]

Don,


Much mission work is being done in Mslim lands.

Some missionaries try to use the Mslm "rest day" of Friday as a replacement for Sunday worship in the name of contextualization.

However, I would use Friday as a good opportunity for evangelism, but would still safeguard Sunday worship.

Why? Because the Church is a universal entity and is one Body, and therefore, a shared body of beliefs and a shared worship day is part of that.

Many of the contextualizing practices that are occurring in the Muslim world serve to wall off Mslm believers and isolate them from Christians throughout the rest of the world and throughout the ages. In their disdain for symbols of the "institutional" church, such as buildings and steeples, and confessions of faith and even the ordinances (some contextualizing missionaries delay or avoid baptism and the Lord's supper) they are doing a disservice to new believers by not opening a line of access to the worldwide Body of Christ.


For tribal groups, most of them that I know of have no sense of rest days since their cultures are often degenerated to the point of no written language, no advanced forms of music, little order in local government or social organization, no advanced tool implementation, etc.

For Hindus in Bali, for example, there is the Day of Nyepi (the Quiet Day) so as to rest and not annoy the Spirits, and Mslms have their holy day, too, so it appears that many religions sense the law written on their hearts, the advanced ones at least.

 

[KMK]

Why? Because the Church is a universal entity and is one Body, and therefore, a shared body of beliefs and a shared worship day is part of that.

But, is the 'first' day of the week universal? Is 'Sunday' universal? (I am asking because I simply do not know.)

 

[Pergamum]

Ken,


I believe that the practice of meeting on the first day of the week for the early disciples, both in the NT and in the early church, is more than merely descriptive but is normative.

Matthew 28:1, “After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.”

Mark 16:9, “When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.”

John 20:19, “On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, ‘Peace be with you!’ ”


Acts 20:7, “On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.”

1 Corinthians 16:2, On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.”

Paul's command to set aside your money on the first day (presumably during the worship) is an indirect proof for the normative nature of the change to the first day of the week.

Now that Sunday worship is a regular practice among Christians (and it has always been so), I believe that even apart from certain theological proofs, missionaries worldwide ought to try to bring new regions and cultures into line with the universal church and not to do something novel unless very clear reasons can be proved.

I cannot think of any sufficient reasons in most cultures why another day would trump the first day as the most fitting day for worship (I have already address the islmic practice of Friday mosque worship above).

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See also this:

THE
SHORTER CATECHISM
EXPLAINED

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION 59. Which day of the seven hath God appointed to be the weekly Sabbath?

ANSWER: From the beginning of the world, to the resurrection of Christ, God appointed the seventh day of the week to be the weekly Sabbath; and the first day of the week, ever since, to continue to the end of the world, which is the Christian Sabbath.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q. 1. When did God appoint the seventh day of the week to be the weekly Sabbath?

A. From the beginning of the world, Gen. 2:2, 3.

Q. 2. Why is it said to be from the beginning of the world, when it was not done till after man was created on the sixth day?

A. Because the world, as to its perfection of parts, did not properly begin till the creation was completely finished; which was not till man was made, who was to "have dominion over all the earth," Gen. 1:26.

Q. 3. How long was this seventh or last day of the week appointed to be the weekly Sabbath?

A. To the resurrection of Christ, Matt. 28:1.

Q. 4. Which day of the week did God appoint for the Sabbath ever since that time?

A. The first day of the week, Acts 20:7.

Q. 5. For how long time is the first day of the week appointed to be the weekly Sabbath?

A. To the end of the world.

Q. 6. How are we sure that it is appointed to continue to the end of the world?

A. Because the canon of scripture is concluded, and therefore no new revelations and institutions are to be expected, Rev. 22:18, 19.

Q. 7. Why is the first day of the week called the Christian Sabbath?

A. Because it was instituted by Christ, and uniformly observed by Christians ever since his resurrection.

Q. 8. Are not all divine institutions observed in virtue of some moral precept?

A. Yes; otherwise the law of the Lord would not be perfect, as it is declared to be, Psalm 19:7.

Q. 9. In virtue of what moral precept has the first day of the week been observed by Christians.

A. In virtue of the Fourth Commandment; even as the means of worship, instituted under the New Testament, have been observed in virtue of the second.

Q. 10. How can the first day of the week be observed in virtue of the Fourth Commandment, when it is not in it particularly mentioned?

A. The morality of the Sabbath does not lie in observing the seventh day in order from the creation; but in observing such a seventh day as is determined and appointed by God; which may be either the first or last of the seven days, as he shall see meet.

Q. 11. Under what name or designation is the Christian Sabbath foretold in the Old Testament?

A. Under the name of the EIGHTH DAY, Ezek. 43:27 -- "And when these days are expired, it shall be that upon the EIGHTH DAY, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings: and I will accept you, Saith the Lord."

Q. 12. Why called the eighth day?

A. Because the first day of the week now, is the eighth in order from the creation.

Q. 13. What is the efficient cause of the change of the Sabbath.

A. The sovereign will and pleasure of him who is "Lord of the Sabbath," Mark 2:28.

Q. 14. What is the moving cause of this change.

A. The resurrection of Christ from the dead, which was "early on the first day of the week," Mark 16:9.

Q. 15. Why is the day of Christ's resurrection appointed to be the Sabbath?

A. Because his resurrection was a demonstrative evidence that he had completely finished the glorious work of redemption, Rom. 1:4; and therefore it was his RESTING DAY, Heb. 4:10 -- "He that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."

Q. 16. Why might not the day of Christ's incarnation or the day of his passion, have been consecrated to be our Sabbath day?

A. Because they were both of them days of Christ's labour and sorrow, which he had to go through before he came to his rest, Luke 24:26. In his incarnation, and birth, he entered upon his work, Gal. 4:4, 5. In his passion, he was under the sorest part of his labour, even the exquisite and unspeakable agonies of his soul, Matt. 26:38.

Q. 17. Why might not the day of his ascension be made the Sabbath, as well as the day of his resurrection?

A. Because on the day of his ascension he entered only into his PLACE of rest, the third heavens; whereas he had entered before into his STATE of rest on the day of his resurrection; and the place is but a circumstance, when compared with the state.

Q. 18. Why did God change his day of rest?

A. Because his rest in the work of creation was marred and spoiled by man's sin, Gen. 6:6; whereas his rest in the work of redemption, entered into at the resurrection of Christ, is that in which he will have eternal and unchangeable pleasure, John 17:23. Besides, redemption is a far greater and more excellent work than even that of creation.

Q. 19. How may the change of the Sabbath from the last to the first day of the week be evinced from scripture?

A. If our Lord Jesus, after his resurrection, met ordinarily with his disciples on the first day of the week; if, after his ascension, he poured out his Spirit in an extraordinary manner on that day; if, by the example and practice of the apostles and primitive Christians, recorded in the New Testament, the first day of the week was honoured above any other for the public exercises of God's worship; if, by apostolic precept, the observance of this day, rather than any other, was enjoined for Sabbath services; and if this day is peculiarly dignified with the title of the LORD'S DAY -- then it must undoubtedly be the Christian Sabbath by divine institution.

Q. 20. How does it appear that our Lord, after his resurrection, met ordinarily with his disciples on the first day of the week?

A. From two instances of it; expressly recorded, John 20:19, 26; where it is affirmed, that he met with them on the evening of the same day on which he arose from the dead, being the first day of the week: and that Thomas was not with them when Jesus came, ver. 24. Likewise, on that same day, eight days, he appeared to them again, when they "were within, and Thomas was with them," ver. 26. From whence it would seem, that he met with them ordinarily on that day, during his forty days' abode on the earth, after his resurrection.

Q. 21. How is it evident that Christ, after his ascension, poured out his Spirit in an extraordinary manner on this day?

A. From Acts 2:1-5 -- "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord, in one place; and suddenly there came a sound from heaven, -- and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost," &c.

Q. 22. What was the day of Pentecost?

A. It was the fiftieth day after the passover, when the "new meat offering" was brought unto the Lord, Num. 28:26.

Q. 23. How do you prove that this was the first day of the week?

A. From Lev. 23:16; where it is said, that the morrow after the seventh Sabbath is the fiftieth day, (or Pentecost). And it is certain that the morrow after the Jewish Sabbath must be the first day of the week.

Q. 24. How does it appear, from the example and practice of the apostles and primitive Christians, that the first day of the week was honoured above any other, for the public exercise of God's worship?

A. From Acts 20:7 -- "And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them:" where it is obvious that the disciples met ordinarily upon the first day of the week, to hear the word, and celebrate the sacrament of the supper: for it is not said, the apostle called them, but that they CAME together to break bread; and Paul, on that occasion, preached unto them.

Q. 25. How may it be proved from the context, that the disciples met ordinarily for the public exercises of God's worship, on the first day of the week?

A. That they did so may be proved from this, that "Paul abode with them seven days," as is evident from ver. 6, and yet upon none of the seven did they meet for communicating, or breaking of bread, but on the first day of the week only: which plainly says that they held it for the Christian Sabbath, and not the seventh or last day, which is not even mentioned.

Q. 26. But do we not read, Acts 13:14, that Paul preached in a synagogue on the Sabbath day, which certainly behoved to be the Jewish Sabbath or last day of the week?

A. He only preached occasionally on the Jewish Sabbath, as the fittest time, when the Jews were assembled together, to dispense gospel truth among them; but did not honour this day as a stated time for public worship.

Q. 27. What apostolic precept is there, for the observance of the first day of the week, rather than any other, for Sabbath services?

A. It is in 1 Cor. 16:1, 2 -- "Now, concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him."

Q. 28. What is the argument from this text, to prove an apostolic precept, for observing the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath?

A. It may run thus: That if collections for the poor are expressly commanded to be made on the first day of the week, it plainly follows, that Christians must meet together on that day, for this and other Sabbath services.

Q. 29. But may not this be a temporary precept, binding for a time, upon the church of Corinth only?

A. As the words of the text expressly affirm that it was binding also upon the churches of Galatia, so the apostle directs his epistle not to the church of Corinth only, but to "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ," chap. 1:2; and consequently it must be binding upon all the churches to the end of the world.

Q. 30. In what place of the New Testament is there mention made of a day dignified with the title of the LORD'S DAY?

A. In Rev. 1:10 -- "I was in the Spirit," says John, "on the LORD'S DAY."

Q. 31. How may it be proved, that what is here called the Lord's day, is the first day of the week?

A. By these two arguments: That no other day of the week but the first can justly be called the Lord's day; and that the first day of the week is so called in virtue of Christ's sanctifying it, above any other day, for his own honour and service.

Q. 32. Why can no other day of the week, but the first, be justly called the Lord's day?

A. Because there is no action or work of Christ (save healing on the Sabbath) mentioned or recorded as done upon any one day of the week by another, except that of his resurrection, which is unanimously affirmed by the evangelists, to be on the first day of the week.

Q. 33. How does it appear that the first day of the week is called the Lord's day, in virtue of his sanctifying it for his own honour and service?

A. As the seventh day Sabbath was called the Sabbath of the Lord, because instituted by him as God-creator; so the first day of the week is called the Lord's day, because instituted by him as God-redeemer; or, as the sacrament of bread and wine is called the Lord's table, and the Lord's Supper, 1 Cor. 10:21, and 11:20, because it is an ordinance of his institution; so, the first day of the week is called the Lord's day, for the very same reason.

Q. 34. Would the apostles have observed and recommended the first day of the week for the Christian Sabbath, if they had not been particularly instructed in this by Christ himself?

A. No, surely: for, after his passion, he spoke of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God, Acts 1:3; among which the change of the Sabbath from the last to the first day of the week was none of the least; and it is certain that the apostles delivered nothing to the churches, as a rule of faith or practice, but what they received of the Lord, 1 Cor. 11:23.

From this website:

Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics

 

[Scott1]

One aspect of all God's people (worldwide) having the same day as the Christian Sabbath is that they are, participating in a worldwide, catholic communion of the saints worldwide. Corporate worship, but even family and individual worship prioritized that day puts Christ's Body in a form of holy communion, altogether, the same time.

This is an identifying badge of the church universal.

 

[Peairtach]

The duty to spend time in formal worship was written on Man's heart from the beginning and is part of general revelation.

The particular duty to spend a seventh of our time, and the particular day of the week on which that should be done is part of special revelation.

Adam was told by God about God's making the world in six days and resting on the seventh and sanctifying it.

We have been told by God about Christ's resting from the work of redemption on the first day of the week.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest (the keeping of a Sabbath rest) to the people of God.

10 For he (that is Christ) that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:9-10)

See Walter Chantry's exposition of this somewhat difficult passage in "Call the Sabbath a Delight" (Banner of Truth).

 

[Pergamum]

The Origen and Nature of the Muslim Friday Worship


Here are some links concerning evangelical missions' willingness to sacrifice the sabbath for the sake of Muslim contextualization.

Dudley Woodberry writes the following, showing Muslim differences (Muslim misunderstandings) regarding the Sabbath:

The Friday prayer is mentioned
in sura 62:9 where the day is called “the
day of Assembly” (yawm al-Jum’a),
the same meaning as the Hebrew name
yom hak-kenisa for the Sabbath.88
The development of these prayers during
the Umayyad Period (661-750 A.D.)
may have been under Christian influence.
89 The choice of a day each
week was a result of Jewish and Christian
contacts according to a Tradition:
“The Jews have every seventh day a day
when they get together [for prayer],
and so do the Christians; therefore, let us
do the same.”90
Goitein argues that Friday was chosen
because it was a market day in
Medina when people could more readily
come to prayer.91 Unlike the Jewish
Sabbath and the Christian Sunday it was
not a day of rest. Sura 62:9 suggests
they leave their trafficking to come to
prayers. Unlike the biblical account
of creation where God rested the seventh
day and the children of Israel were to
do likewise (Gen. 2:2-3; Ex. 20:8), the
Quran makes a point of noting that
God was not tired after the six days of
creation (sura 50:38-37)—a topic also
raised by Jewish scholars.92

International Journal oF Fronti Missions, Volume 13:4 Oct-Nov 1996.

Muslim Evangelism: Contemporary ... - Google Books

Above on pages 176-177 of this linked googlebook by Phil Parshall speaks of using Friday for "contextualized church" in Mslm lands.

Parshal (page 176) states that there is no exhortation for Sunday worship:

Muslim Evangelism: Contemporary ... - Google Books

-
-
By the way, Don,

there is a book by Don Richardson on Islam. Whereas Richardson was constantly looking for 'redemptive analogies' in tribal religion, gateways of understanding and god-placed keys to reaching these cultures, he concludes that there is no such thing in islam because Islam is a Satanic counterfeit of true relion.

Amazon.com: The Secrets of the Koran: Revealing Insights into Islam's Holy Bible (9780830731237): Don Richardson: Books

Ths book took a lot of flack, but I think it is mostly a good book. I hear even many evangelical missionaries speaking of the "glorious religion" of Islam, but the more I am acquainted with it it seems, instead, like a poison which sours rational minds and ruins otherwise beautiful cultures.

 

[KMK]

I believe that the practice of meeting on the first day of the week for the early disciples, both in the NT and in the early church, is more than merely descriptive but is normative.

But, is my first day of the week the same as everyone else' in the world? Does the whole world universally agree upon which day is the first?

 

[Pergamum]

Ken,

Interesting.

If I were in a tribe that held to a 10 day a week calendar (3 weeks in a month I guess), right now I would be leaning towards re-teaching them a 7-day week.....based on the creation pattern.

 

[KMK]

What if they considered Wed to be the first day of the week?

As far as a 10 day week, has there ever been a culture in the world that has held to anything other than a 7 day week?

------------

According to Wiki there have been other cycles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week#.22Weeks.22_in_other_calendars

 

[elnwood]

I was in a country where roughly half the churches met on Friday and half met on Sunday.

From what I understand, Friday worship had little to do with contextualization, and more to do with the pragmatic issues of meeting on a day in which the society at large considers a work day.

We are fortunate to live in a country where Sunday is generally reserved as a non-work day.

 

[Scott1]

What if they considered Wed to be the first day of the week?

As far as a 10 day week, has there ever been a culture in the world that has held to anything other than a 7 day week?

------------

According to Wiki there have been other cycles: Week - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh sure, rebellious creatures have tried to pattern time on other than the normative example of God creating and resting in seven days.

The Communists tried a 10 day week with no break, similarly the French revolution tried to "re-invent" time. They collapsed. The point is, they were not doing so on the basis of the normative example of God's people.

If they were Christian, they would be celebrating along with other Christians on the same day, the first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day.

It's possible calendars got mixed up and life patterns disrupted since, say, the apostolic era. Yet, we know God has had a people and a faithful witness throughout time. God has not ever been without a people.

So, a false religion demanding worship on an other day than Christians worship is no cause to change, nor justify their "day."

 

[KMK]

If they were Christian, they would be celebrating along with other Christians on the same day, the first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day.

My question has to do with whether the first day of the week for Christians in America is the same as the first day of the week for every other people group in the whole world.

 

[Pilgrim Standard]

What if they considered Wed to be the first day of the week?

As far as a 10 day week, has there ever been a culture in the world that has held to anything other than a 7 day week?

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According to Wiki there have been other cycles: Week - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is really irrelevant in that the scriptures do not indicate that we should worship on the current culturally accepted first or last day of the week of the peoples whom we now live among. It is a specific day that is provided by progressive revelation throughout the scriptures. Obviously on Sat in the OT and on Sun in NT times after the ascension of Christ.

Also note that God is quite aware that the planet is round and the Sabbath is NOT at the exact moment universally amongst the people of the world due to this, although in Heaven the Sabbath Rest will certainly be universally instantaneous as well as eternal as it must be when we are in the exalted state in the physical and spiritual presence of Christ our true Sabbath rest.

 

[py3ak]

If they were Christian, they would be celebrating along with other Christians on the same day, the first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day.

My question has to do with whether the first day of the week for Christians in America is the same as the first day of the week for every other people group in the whole world.

It seems obvious that in the long term they should be assimilated to the practice of their brethren. If some culture considers Wednesday the first of the week, that is no reason for them to vary from the norm of centuries. I realize you can argue that our first day of the week might merely be conventional and not exactly precise (as in the case of Samoa), but it is a very practical way to acknowledge that Christ is Lord of time.

 

[KMK]

This is really irrelevant in that the scriptures do not indicate that we should worship on the current culturally accepted first or last day of the week of the peoples whom we now live among. It is a specific day that is provided by progressive revelation throughout the scriptures. Obviously on Sat in the OT and on Sun in NT times after the ascension of Christ.

No one is denying that. My concern is that we might be Eurocentric (sic) by claiming that our Sat and Sun are exactly as they were thousands of years ago. If we find a group of people in Papua, for example, whose first day is our Thursday do we convince them to change because we know we are right or because we are the majority?

 

[KMK]

I realize you can argue that our first day of the week might merely be conventional and not exactly precise (as in the case of Samoa), but it is a very practical way to acknowledge that Christ is Lord of time.

Agreed. It is interesting that most of the world has always observed a seven day week when 7 is not a factor of either a lunar month or a solar year. Could this be an example of natural law?

 

[Scott1]

If we find a group of people in Papua, for example, whose first day is our Thursday do we convince them to change because we know we are right or because we are the majority?

But, is the example saying that this people group is Christian, or pagan?

If it is Christian, it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the church universal, wouldn't it?

If it is not, what does that prove in your example?

What is the point?

 

[Peairtach]

The Christian Sabbath is so much more forward-looking than the Jewish Sabbath was, that it should be held on the first day of the week. In what sense it is forward looking would merit another thread.

 

[KMK]

If we find a group of people in Papua, for example, whose first day is our Thursday do we convince them to change because we know we are right or because we are the majority?

But, is the example saying that this people group is Christian, or pagan?

If it is Christian, it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the church universal, wouldn't it?

If it is not, what does that prove in your example?

What is the point?

I'm not trying to prove a point at all.

By saying, "it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the church universal," you are really saying, "it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the majority of the church'. My question is, can we really accuse another Christian community of sin because they don't adjust their calendar to that of the majority?

 

[py3ak]

Except that Christian communities don't usually spring up in isolation; they spring up in connection with outreach from established bodies, who will teach them to observe a Christian calendar, especially the week of 7 days with the day of the resurrection as the first and as the holy day of the church.

 

[py3ak]

You would have to go through a secret initiation before I could tell you that. As it is, I may have already said too much.

 

[Pergamum]

Ken,

Those tribes still isolated enough not to know much about Western time are not very careful in time keeping anyhow; as they become moreso, most of them voluntarily adopt a western time system (which I think is global at this stage).

Hypothetically, if a tribe were to maintain a local system of a tribal 7-day week at odds with the global system, they could still synchronize their calenders to honor the Sabbath (which would be taken from the global week). Say for instance their week started on OGG-DAY, which was wednesday, I would still propose they line up their sabbath worship to conform with their global brothers, even if this was on SHMELK-DAY.

---------- Post added at 03:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 AM ----------

If we find a group of people in Papua, for example, whose first day is our Thursday do we convince them to change because we know we are right or because we are the majority?

But, is the example saying that this people group is Christian, or pagan?

If it is Christian, it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the church universal, wouldn't it?

If it is not, what does that prove in your example?

What is the point?

I'm not trying to prove a point at all.

By saying, "it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the church universal," you are really saying, "it would want to maintain solidarity with the Lord's Day in the majority of the church'. My question is, can we really accuse another Christian community of sin because they don't adjust their calendar to that of the majority?

A way to argue that this is not merely a matter of simple majorit would be to make a case that this calendar started at an objective point and place in time, in Jerusalem at that time of the Cross. Therefore, it is not a mere arbitrary deliberation based on majority, but a careful tracking of days since the first sunday of the resurrection.