Sabbath Day Questions...

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Mindaboo

Puritan Board Graduate
Brad and I are getting into a routine and getting our preparations under control as far as preparing for the Sabbath. It has been a lot of work, a lot of thought and effort that I do hope is honoring and pleasing our Lord.

My questions would primarily be for people with children. Do you allow your children to play or do they study? My youngest is nine and all of them are capable of studying the scriptures. My understanding of the WCF is that they should forsake all play and normal activities on Sunday. My children constantly get invited to other Christian's homes to play, but we are convicted that maybe shouldn't be happening. Those other families allow their children to do things we don't think are permissable. What do you do in those situations? Do you allow them to go play? We have not. They have six other days to have play dates. My other question pertains to our Sunday night activities at church. We only meet one Sunday a month for evening activities. The teens group seems to be focused on playing games rather than a Bible study. They have a group that goes out and does acts of mercy within the community and some times they are planning those things. Wednesday nights they do a Bible study that is very good. If they were doing that I wouldn't have a problem with it. Would you allow your children to participate? Why or why not? I have always thought that churches are dumbing down our children by making everything about having fun. My children can grasp things at times that are difficult for me, so I think we don't set the standard high enough.

Please don't get the wrong impression about my church. I love my church deeply and my pastor is one of the most godly men I have ever met. I do however know that our view is the minority, meaning we are the only family I know of that even attempts to observe the Sabbath. I am not looking to change my church, just simply to follow what I think the scriptures teach.

Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Am I being legalistic in my approach to the Sabbath? Please don't turn this into a debate about whether or not we should observe the Sabbath or not. I am convinced that we should. I just want to understand if I am approaching this correctly or not.
 
Mindy,

I think you should try and "change your church." I don't think there's anything wrong with that if it's done in the right spirit.

My kids are very young yet (3 and 4) and we try to tailor our Sabbath activities to their capacities. They are allowed to play quietly for part of the day. We let them have one hour of TV (some kind of Christian DVD.) When they get older we will wean them off of that and onto the Bible and Christian books. First reading them to them, then allowing them to read for themselves. We always try to emphasize to them what a blessing and a joy the Sabbath Day is, and try to mirror that in our own countenances.

Your kids are old enough to begin making use of the Day, and I would press them towards that goal. I would not allow play dates on a Sunday.

As regards your church, perhaps you can
1. Ask your pastor to begin a Sunday evening worship service or at least a Bible study. If he's unwilling, maybe an elder can lead it.
2. Ask that the wonderful Wednesday bible study be held on Sunday evening instead, and the games and goofing be held on Wednesday night.
3. Volunteer to do whatever needs to be done to remove obstacles to Sunday Evening worship being instituted in your church
4. If that fails, gather your family for your own Sunday evening worship. Better to keep the Sabbath in your own home than to break it in the church.
5. Pray lots that the Lord would change hearts regarding the blessed Day and its inestimable value.

Blessings,
 
Two Things:

1. If your church is holding a Bible study on Wed nights already, it doesn't seem like it would be really inconvenient for them to change the night to Sunday night instead. That seems like a request you could make respectfully to the elders that wouldn't require lots of extra work on their part.

2. Obviously, this could not happen every week, but possibly, your children could occasionally ask their friends to your house and they could engage in an activity that would meet with your approval? Something like a mercy activity, perhaps a hike where you could focus on God's creation etc. I had friends when I was young whose parents had similar scruples about the Sabbath and they did this. My parents did not have similar scruples against recreation (and neither do I), but I certainly didn't mind going to friends' houses and doing these things - I often enjoyed it.
 
Our children play. In fact, we have a small playground at church were the kids all go out for a while after service. We have no Sunday evening service, instead we have fellowship lunch and then dismiss. Sometimes one of the families in the church will offer a cook-out at their home and invite everyone. But usually we go home to our families.

We view the Sabbath as a day of worship and rest. We rest from non-essential work, and enjoy the day that the Lord has made. My husband and I often take our children to a park after we leave church, just to get out and enjoy creation. We often watch TV and take naps as well. It has never occurred to me that children would not play on the Sabbath.
 
We homeschool, and the weekdays are pretty full. Six other days for play dates? I don't see how. We also drive almost half an hour to church, so the nicest way for my daughter to play with church friends is to invite various ones back Sunday. Sometimes the parents have come for dinner, but usually we drive them home later and give the other parents a break.

I like it when the church feels like extended family. I want my kids to hang out with kids from church. My son is hanging out now at another home with older kids. I love having kids over on Sunday and them feeling like part of a big family.

If you do school all week and bible every day, I don't see the problem with playing Sunday afternoon. Creativity is a good thing. The girls here made a big fire and roasted hotdogs and played outside in the sunshine. I would see more forced bookwork all day as breaking the sabbath. School all week and more on Sunday? That's work.

Obviously there is no clear rigid set of rules on the sabbath, but I thank God my girl feels like part of the church family, and having kids over sunday facilitates that.
 
Generally, if your church is doing something not quite right, perhaps allowing or encouraging recreation and entertainment on the Lord's Day, I would likely:

1) seek the counsel of some mature believers in the church
2) let your concern be known, in the form of a request for counsel and input from at least two elders
3) if the activity is a "primary" kind of violation, I would probably quietly abstain from the activity
4) if the activity was more "incidental," I would probably overlook it, but also look for opportunities in the ordinary course of things to engage it with people.
 
Mindy, I don't have any children, but I hope it's okay that I am still commenting.
First, no I do not deem it acceptable for children to go "play" at their friends house on the Lord's day. I will not let my children do that and they will understand from an early age why they will not do so and why they won't play group sports, scouting, or any other activities along those lines on Sundays. It is not because we are prohibiting those activities in a witholding sense, but rather we are setting those activities aside for the privilege of giving the day over to the Lord.

With that being said, I do not think one has to completely outlaw children's activities of every kind. We must remember that the key issue is a heart issue. God wants our hearts completely given over to Him on the sabbath. Due to the nature of children, especially young ones, they simply cannot read/do bible studies for 10 hours straight all day. But this doesn't mean that they cannot worship God and keep their heart and mind focused on Him for the day. For example, perhaps they could play with their legos/blocks and make bible scenes out of them. Or they could play games that are bible games. You could go for a walk with them and practice memory verses/catechism. The point is that the focus remains on the Lord throughout the day. This is the huge difference is how you spend Sunday and how you spend the rest of the week. I would fear that if young children were made to sit still and listen to reading all the first half of the day, then the second half of the sabbath would be worthless in that they would be far too restless to pay any attention to anything else. Restless, grumpy children would also make it difficult for you and Brad to enjoy your worship/study time too.

As for the second question regarding the teens, no I would not want mine to spend Sunday evening playing games, even if it is at church. I would not be divisive about it , but I would lovingly explain to the pastor/elders ahead of time that on the Sunday evenings when the teen group chooses to play games instead of study God's Word or do the mercy ministry, your teens will not participate. I would have them join you in whatever you and Brad are choosing to do for that Sunday evening instead. Again, as long as you are not being divisive or causing a big stink about it (and it in no way sounds like you are) then I see no reason why your pastor would have a problem with you and Brad obeying your consciences and leading your family in the way you deem best.

BTW, I love how you are genuinely concerned in properly honoring the Lord's Day and I love how you desire for your children to also. I look forward with great anticipation for the day my wife and I get to spend Sundays with our children.
 
My pastor at my home church in Canada has special Noah's ark toys that are set aside for his children for the Sabbath.
 
Mindy, I agree with your interpretation of the WCF.

I do know of a family that does not allow their three-year-old to play on the Sabbath. She doesn't seem to have a hard time with it--just takes it as a matter of course. With two church services, two family worship times, meals, a nap, and being read to (Bible stories) by her big brothers, she stays occupied. She does have her "baby" (doll) that she keeps with her all day, and she is allowed to "take notes" in church.

Personally, I don't take it quite that far; my three-year-old may play with his Legos or blocks on the Sabbath, though he has to play quietly so as not to disturb the peace and restfulness of others' Sabbath. At some point in the day, I read him Bible stories; and he often takes a nap on the Sabbath (not usually on other days).

My five-year-old is not forbidden to play on the Sabbath, but I am gradually steering him away from the toys and towards good books and other more appropriate Sabbath activities. He knows which are the Sabbath books and which are not (Sabbath books include Bible stories, moral children's stories, biographies of missionaries, etc.) He also spends part of the day reviewing his memory work, and lately I have discovered that he really likes to play teacher and quiz ME on MY memory work. He's a very active/energetic kid so I find it helpful to take him for a walk before the evening service to burn off some energy (this also helps wake me out of the quiet-afternoon drowsiness that I sometimes experience).

I know a number of kids who are similar ages to yours, Mindy, and their parents do expect them to keep the Sabbath according to the WCF. They do gather in groups and visit after church, but there isn't any running around or "playing." Afternoons are spent quietly reading good books and preparing for Sabbath school (which is held before the evening service). It can be done, and it isn't a burden.

This is probably semantics, but I wouldn't call what our young people do "studying." If you call it studying, it does sound more ominous. :) I would just call it reading. Nothing wrong with asking kids to spend the day reading quietly or resting. Perhaps journaling would be another appropriate activity.

Of course, it's more challenging when others at church don't share your convictions. Been there, done that, so you have my sympathy.

I agree wholeheartedly about churches dumbing things down for the kids. I have often thought that most churches these days underestimate their children. Children are capable of sitting and listening and even understanding in church; of learning and understanding the Bible and quite a bit of doctrine; and even of memorizing large chunks of Scripture and the Shorter Catechism. (I know a few teens who completed the Shorter Catechism long ago and are now memorizing the Larger Catechism.) Having seen what kids can do, I've been disappointed to find that even some of the better churches have Sunday school classes that consist mostly of cutting and pasting.
 
1. Ask your pastor to begin a Sunday evening worship service or at least a Bible study. If he's unwilling, maybe an elder can lead it.

Right now we have an interim pastor and a hurting congregation. I would not want to do anything else right now to inflict more injury to my congregation. I can however go to my interim pastor and ask for direction on this.

2. Ask that the wonderful Wednesday bible study be held on Sunday evening instead, and the games and goofing be held on Wednesday night.

Another problem our church is facing is that we have no building. And I found out last night we actually won't be having any Sunday night activities through the summer. That gives me time to pray, meet with my session, and study more.

3. Volunteer to do whatever needs to be done to remove obstacles to Sunday Evening worship being instituted in your church
4. If that fails, gather your family for your own Sunday evening worship. Better to keep the Sabbath in your own home than to break it in the church.
5. Pray lots that the Lord would change hearts regarding the blessed Day and its inestimable value.
Thank you! That is very helpful advice!
We homeschool, and the weekdays are pretty full. Six other days for play dates? I don't see how. We also drive a
lmost half an hour to church, so the nicest way for my daughter to play with church friends is to invite various ones back Sunday. Sometimes the parents have come for dinner, but usually we drive them home later and give the other parents a break.
I homeschool as well and maybe the difference is that I live within a ten minute range of most of the kids in my church. That makes it easier for me to have kids over any time. I understand your situation is different than mine. My kids are not lacking Christian fellowship. We are part of a small group where the kids play and we often have other kids at our home. There is rarely a day in our week that goes by that we don't have extra as a family, listen to Christian music or hymns, we work on memkids here.

My kids range of age is . I do catechism with them, we read Narnia ory verses and a variety of other things. I don't feel like I am mak16-9. I don't make them, nor do I plan to make them study the scriptures for hours a daying the day a "work" day. I am s to give Him one day out of seven. Our family is enjoying the Sabbath greatly. My main problem is that we are offending other parents when they invite our children to play and we say no. I want to make sure my attitudes are correct.

---------- Post added at 10:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

My cursor won't let me post beyond a paragraph without going goofy. So, if my last post doesn't make sense in the end that is why.
What I was trying to say is that my kids age range is 16-9. I do catechims, read Narnia, work on memory verses and a variety of other things. I don't feel like I am making this a day of work. I don't expect them to study for hours. They are allowed to read missionary biographies and other books. Our family is enjoying the Sabbath greatly. My main problem is becoming the other parents who are offended when they invite our children over to play and we say no. I want to make sure my attitudes are correct.
 
Mindy, maybe when families invite your children over, you can tell them that you appreciate the invite, but you're trying to make Sunday a special day for your family, you have these Sunday activities that you do together, and so you're trying to cut down on visiting with others. I can see why some ppl might be offended if they're interpreting your not allowing your children to visit as some kind of comment on their household being unsuitable. (I know that's not what you're saying, but I can see why someone might take it there). In the end though, if you're polite and kind in your refusals, I don't think anyone should take offense.
 
On the Lord's Day my children play, but we try to center the playing around Christ. Playing can be a wonderful learning mechanism for children.

So when my little girl plays with dolls on Sunday, she might have them be part of a church service....or be missionaries to other dolls who don't know the Lord.
 
Mindy, maybe when families invite your children over, you can tell them that you appreciate the invite, but you're trying to make Sunday a special day for your family, you have these Sunday activities that you do together, and so you're trying to cut down on visiting with others. I can see why some ppl might be offended if they're interpreting your not allowing your children to visit as some kind of comment on their household being unsuitable. (I know that's not what you're saying, but I can see why someone might take it there). In the end though, if you're polite and kind in your refusals, I don't think anyone should take offense.

We have repeatedly explained it isn't personal. Our children play with these kids throughout the week, so I think it is pretty obvious that it isn't personal. We let our children spend the night at their house, have those children here, and try to let them have time to play. Thank you for your advice. I am praying about this.
 
Mindy, maybe when families invite your children over, you can tell them that you appreciate the invite, but you're trying to make Sunday a special day for your family, you have these Sunday activities that you do together, and so you're trying to cut down on visiting with others. I can see why some ppl might be offended if they're interpreting your not allowing your children to visit as some kind of comment on their household being unsuitable. (I know that's not what you're saying, but I can see why someone might take it there). In the end though, if you're polite and kind in your refusals, I don't think anyone should take offense.

We have repeatedly explained it isn't personal. Our children play with these kids throughout the week, so I think it is pretty obvious that it isn't personal. We let our children spend the night at their house, have those children here, and try to let them have time to play. Thank you for your advice. I am praying about this.

Well, in that case, I can't think of why they would be offended! I'm sorry Mindy.
 
I know some kids (my warrant for commenting) who were required to spend their Sundays reading biographies, Foxe's Book of Martyr's, commentaries, etc. They considered Sunday the worst day of the week, rather than the best. Depending on a child's age, at times it seems that honoring the Sabbath, for them, involves mostly not preventing other people from honoring it. Hence a variety of quiet/companionable/active things to do may be of most assistance to them, and most in keeping with Mark 2:23-28; it might be possible to present things to other parents in that light?
 
My questions would primarily be for people with children. Do you allow your children to play or do they study? What do you do in those situations? Do you allow them to go play?

Our children are still young, so maybe it is not as applicable. We like to take them to the park in the afternoon, normally while dinner is being prepared. I took them to the park for 30 minutes yesterday, which proved to be a fine time. The kids were able to enjoy some time in the sun, and my wife was able to finish dinner preparations. We went to the evening service shortly after dinner.

In the past, when family has been in town, we have gone to a cook-out on Sunday afternoon. It isn't optimal, but we often only see family once a year, and it is normally on Sunday.

We should avoid cookie cutter definitions of what can be done on the Lord’s Day.

py3ak said:
Depending on a child's age, at times it seems that honoring the Sabbath, for them, involves mostly not preventing other people from honoring it.

We might not have the same meaning, but this is what we aim for. We make an effort to focus our activities on the Lord, even while playing on the swings (thanking the Lord for the sun...). We do avoid activities that require others to work, such as eating out, though we will do so if we happen to be travelling, and not have family to spend the day with.
 
I know some kids (my warrant for commenting) who were required to spend their Sundays reading biographies, Foxe's Book of Martyr's, commentaries, etc. They considered Sunday the worst day of the week, rather than the best.

Children who do not yet know the Lord will probably find the Sabbath a burden (as will unregenerate adults). This does not mean that they should not be expected to keep it.
 
Indeed, the Sabbath laws bind all, saved or unsaved. But why do you assume the children were unregenerate?
 
I know some kids (my warrant for commenting) who were required to spend their Sundays reading biographies, Foxe's Book of Martyr's, commentaries, etc. They considered Sunday the worst day of the week, rather than the best.

Children who do not yet know the Lord will probably find the Sabbath a burden (as will unregenerate adults). This does not mean that they should not be expected to keep it.

I have been regenerated as long as I can remember, but as a young boy, I would have grown to despise the Sabbath had I been forbidden to play and forced to read the Bible and commentaries all day.
 
Indeed, the Sabbath laws bind all, saved or unsaved. But why do you assume the children were unregenerate?

Well, I'm just thinking of my own son, who grumbles about family worship, church, and Sabbaths. As far as I know, he does not yet know the Lord. Also, I remember my own youth pre-conversion. I would think that a child who does know the Lord could find delight in a Sabbath kept according to God's will.

The fourth commandment is addressed not only to adults, but to sons and daughters. As Matthew Henry says on this commandment, "In this...it is expected that masters of families should take care, not only to serve the Lord themselves, but that their houses also should serve him, at least that it may not be through their neglect if they do not."

I don't know why expecting children to keep the Sabbath is considered "forcing." I would call it "training up a child in the way he should go."

It's not like I expect my son to sit stock still on a couch with his hands folded on his lap, reading Calvin's Commentaries. He reads interesting books written for children, and he is allowed to stand on his head while doing so if he wishes (he does like to read while upside down). Once he gets over his grumbling about not being allowed to jump on the couch, wrestle with his brother, etc. he does enjoy his reading. I haven't yet raised a child who didn't like to read (and I don't intend to :p ) so I can't picture this being such a burden as some of y'all are making it out to be.
 
I'm not a parent, so I should butt out of this thread. But just one last thing - not every child (or adult) enjoys reading. Its a real struggle for some. I would hesitate to say that one needs to spend the Sabbath reading to keep the Sabbath- its simply not restful for many people. (I'm thinking of one of my siblings in particular)
 
Well, I'm just thinking of my own son, who grumbles about family worship, church, and Sabbaths. As far as I know, he does not yet know the Lord. Also, I remember my own youth pre-conversion. I would think that a child who does know the Lord could find delight in a Sabbath kept according to God's will.

The fourth commandment is addressed not only to adults, but to sons and daughters. As Matthew Henry says on this commandment, "In this...it is expected that masters of families should take care, not only to serve the Lord themselves, but that their houses also should serve him, at least that it may not be through their neglect if they do not."

I don't know why expecting children to keep the Sabbath is considered "forcing." I would call it "training up a child in the way he should go."

It's not like I expect my son to sit stock still on a couch with his hands folded on his lap, reading Calvin's Commentaries. He reads interesting books written for children, and he is allowed to stand on his head while doing so if he wishes (he does like to read while upside down). Once he gets over his grumbling about not being allowed to jump on the couch, wrestle with his brother, etc. he does enjoy his reading. I haven't yet raised a child who didn't like to read (and I don't intend to :p ) so I can't picture this being such a burden as some of y'all are making it out to be.

Part of the childish condition is that you have fewer resources with which to control the demands of nature - hence, diapers! Since eating when you're hungry is a Sabbath activity defended by Christ, in the text I cited previously, the Sabbath laws ought to be understood in such a way that they don't oppress nature (though they will oppress sin, as you can see in Nehemiah). Therefore in training your children to keep the Sabbath (which is very laudable) wisdom must be exercised so that an adult standard of control over nature is not imposed on children (e.g., you don't require a newborn to stay awake the whole day because the LC condemns laziness). I think that was the mistake of the parents of the children I mentioned, and it seems like an easy mistake to make. Part of the responsibility of parents honoring the Sabbath is not to make it miserable for others. Of course, the fact that others have made that mistake doesn't mean anyone here will; but it can hardly hurt to be aware of the possibility.
 
I'm not a parent, so I should butt out of this thread. But just one last thing - not every child (or adult) enjoys reading. Its a real struggle for some. I would hesitate to say that one needs to spend the Sabbath reading to keep the Sabbath- its simply not restful for many people. (I'm thinking of one of my siblings in particular)

Kathleen, please don't butt out. I personally enjoy reading your post.

I will just say this, all four of my children are proffessing faith and even if they weren't I am still called to raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I have not made this a burden for them in anyway. We have read exciting books about missionairies. They are allowed to have their neighborhood friends over. They teach those kids hymns and they sit and listen to me read Narnia. We allow the neighborhood kids, because they are unsaved kids from broken homes who are suffering and hurting. Those kids come and quietly sit with us, sing, listen to the sermon or whatever we are doing. If they don't they are asked to leave.

My children enjoy the Sabbath. I am just asking as I try to work out in my own mind what is honoring the Lord.
 
I don't think I made it clear, but my point was that you don't necessarily have to read to honor the Sabbath You could listen to hymns, sermons, have a conversation about the sermon etc. Reading is certainly a good way to spend the day, but for those who struggle with it there are other options - and we shouldn't forget that.

Edit: Mindy, its nice to know I'm not being a pest!
 
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I'm not a parent, so I should butt out of this thread. But just one last thing - not every child (or adult) enjoys reading. Its a real struggle for some. I would hesitate to say that one needs to spend the Sabbath reading to keep the Sabbath- its simply not restful for many people. (I'm thinking of one of my siblings in particular)

Oh, absolutely. In our house, we are all of the bookish sort, so reading is an obvious choice for our Sabbath afternoons. But conversations, singing, going for a walk, sermons or books on tape--all would also be excellent ways to spend the day (and we do those things also).
 
No such thing as a perfect local church. How to obey the sabbath (or as I prefer to call it the Lord's day for theological reasons though sabbath is acceptable language properly understood) is largely a matter of personal Christian conscience. I would encourage to walk in humility with your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and obey according to your conscience and do not judge other families who do not share your convictions and through humility and demonstrating what you believe to be true win them over. That was how I came to become a reformed Sabbatharian.
 
No such thing as a perfect local church. How to obey the sabbath (or as I prefer to call it the Lord's day for theological reasons though sabbath is acceptable language properly understood) is largely a matter of personal Christian conscience. I would encourage to walk in humility with your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and obey according to your conscience and do not judge other families who do not share your convictions and through humility and demonstrating what you believe to be true win them over. That was how I came to become a reformed Sabbatharian.

The problem with that is we do not go by "conscience" really.

We go by what God has commanded His creatures to do.

(And He has a lot to say about one day in seven).
 
As far as getting the church to change it's position on the observance of the Sabbath you may have a problem if they do not subscribe to a confession that calls for adherence to it. Not to say that you should not, just saying it will be very difficult to get support. If your church does not confessionally subscribe to the Sabbath you may want to get some of the men in the church involved in getting it added to either an existing confession if one exists or to have the constitution of your church amended to include it.
 
Asking the session and pastor what their view of the Lord's Day might be helpful. And realizing that many families define day of rest differently might help. One thing you could encourage is starting a monthly or biweekly church lunch (potluck) at church after the morning service.
 
Asking the session and pastor what their view of the Lord's Day might be helpful. And realizing that many families define day of rest differently might help. One thing you could encourage is starting a monthly or biweekly church lunch (potluck) at church after the morning service.

I am pretty sure I already know where each stands, but intend on asking them if they have taken any exceptions just so I do know. I am getting into a deeper study of the WCF and would like to know what they have taken exceptions to. I am not looking to change anyone's mind. I don't talk to people about it unless they ask.

We do have a monthly luncheon and it is a nice time of fellowship. Our church doesn't have a building so our fellowship times are determined by the school we meet in.

I am just learning these things myself and understand that not everyone will agree with me. I am okay with being in the minority. I want to walk in obedience and do what the Lord commands.

In the end my main concern is glorifying the Lord with our day. I just started reading The Lord's Day by Joey Pipa and am studying that along with his study guide on the WCF. I know the Lord will guide and direct me in His way.
 
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