Sacraments and Ordinances
- Thread starter Osage Bluestem
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I understand that we are proclaim/shew the Lord's death untill he comes. However, who are we proclaiming it to? We take it corporately as a reminder and refreshment to our souls. We come humbled that our savior would die for us, but we also come rejoicing that he has saved us through his death. Are we not to find this time refreshing and receive grace from our God through Jesus Christ? God's grace transforms us, and refreshes us! If we are not affected by the grace of God revealed to us in the ordinances/sacraments, something is wrong.
Prufrock
Arbitrary Moderation
David, let's do some major clarifications here:
1.) Yes, the word "sacramentum" is not in scripture -- prima facie, this is accounted for simply by the fact that it is a Latin word, not Greek or Hebrew (though the word is, indeed, used in Latin translations of the scripture, though perhaps not in the sense that you might imagine). Its original meaning was a military term, involving an oath taken by soldiers at their initiation; over time, the word took upon a religious use, referring to the mysteries and hidden doctrines within a religion (thus the term is used in Latin translations to represent the Greek "mystery"). In modern ecclesiastical usage, the "sacraments" are referred to as sacraments because they (somewhat hiddenly) hold forth the mysteries of the Christian religion. The terms does not refer to a superstition wherein actual power is attributed to physical things.
2.) As I said above, and many others have confirmed for you: the Reformed simply do not teach that the sacraments somehow "impart grace" on their own -- such is not even in keeping with a Protestant understanding of what grace is; and you yourself have referred to grace above as "unmerited favor." The sacraments are one of the means whereby we receive Christ. We receive Christ in the Word -- not by the bare hearing of the Word, as though it magically works something in those who hear it. Rather, we hear the Word preached, and the Holy Spirit works with this Word, and it is "mixed with faith in [us] who hear it," and so is profitable. Thereby we can refer to the Word as a "means of grace." This is how we talk about the sacraments: they are a sign and seal of the covenant. This does not mean that "because we partake of these things, God will on this account give us more grace." Rather, in these "visible words of God," the 'mysteries' of Christ are set before us, as in his Word, and those who are his perceive him in them by faith. Note that Rom. 4:11 refers to circumcision as both a "sign" and a "seal" to Abraham of the righteousness which he had by faith. This is what we plead for. Circumcision, and the other sacraments, are not just something that "we do for God to worship him;" yes, they are a part of our public worship: but they are so as signs and seals for us from God.
1.) Yes, the word "sacramentum" is not in scripture -- prima facie, this is accounted for simply by the fact that it is a Latin word, not Greek or Hebrew (though the word is, indeed, used in Latin translations of the scripture, though perhaps not in the sense that you might imagine). Its original meaning was a military term, involving an oath taken by soldiers at their initiation; over time, the word took upon a religious use, referring to the mysteries and hidden doctrines within a religion (thus the term is used in Latin translations to represent the Greek "mystery"). In modern ecclesiastical usage, the "sacraments" are referred to as sacraments because they (somewhat hiddenly) hold forth the mysteries of the Christian religion. The terms does not refer to a superstition wherein actual power is attributed to physical things.
2.) As I said above, and many others have confirmed for you: the Reformed simply do not teach that the sacraments somehow "impart grace" on their own -- such is not even in keeping with a Protestant understanding of what grace is; and you yourself have referred to grace above as "unmerited favor." The sacraments are one of the means whereby we receive Christ. We receive Christ in the Word -- not by the bare hearing of the Word, as though it magically works something in those who hear it. Rather, we hear the Word preached, and the Holy Spirit works with this Word, and it is "mixed with faith in [us] who hear it," and so is profitable. Thereby we can refer to the Word as a "means of grace." This is how we talk about the sacraments: they are a sign and seal of the covenant. This does not mean that "because we partake of these things, God will on this account give us more grace." Rather, in these "visible words of God," the 'mysteries' of Christ are set before us, as in his Word, and those who are his perceive him in them by faith. Note that Rom. 4:11 refers to circumcision as both a "sign" and a "seal" to Abraham of the righteousness which he had by faith. This is what we plead for. Circumcision, and the other sacraments, are not just something that "we do for God to worship him;" yes, they are a part of our public worship: but they are so as signs and seals for us from God.
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
Then you need to disavow the confession you claim to uphold (or the one you previously claimed to uphold) because both the LBCF and the WCF clearly state that the sacraments are "more than that", or, at least, affirm that you won't be making posts that advocate for your contra-confessional position.
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