Scottish Presbyterian Collar?

[Classical Presbyterian]

It does show reverence. And my Pastor is My shepard. I expect him to act/dress as such....

Wear the Collar, be proud, and lead us sheep!

Why not have a shepherd's staff then?

Frankly, I do not think that there is any NT evidence that the ministry is to be in any extra garb. Those things went out with the Old Covenant.

I only would use a shepherd's staff when working with the kids. Great idea! (But I'd hope I did not look like the dorky guy in the picture...)

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Too late Toby...

 

[Marrow Man]

Why not have a shepherd's staff then?

When I first saw that photo, I instinctively thought of someone at a Benny Hinn "Crusade" tossing away his cane....

 

[R. Scott Clark]

but why is this in "cults/world religions"?

As someone already said, it stemmed out of a Roman Catholicism thought.

Actually the Romans stole (no pun intended) the tab collar from the Anglicans.

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 06:46:13 EST-----

It runs in my mind that Kim Riddlebarger said once on the WHI that he wears a Geneva gown. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, he does. Mike now preaches in a black Genevan gown. I do - when I'm preaching at Oceanside URC or in other pulpits where it is the practice. Danny Hyde preaches in a black Geneva gown.

The real questions are whether there is a ministerial office in the church and whether it is appropriate for the minister to wear some symbol of that office? The Reformed in the 16th and 17th century answered yes to both questions. As far as I can tell the principal reason for abandoning the uniform attached to the office was democratic, egalitarian, second-great- awakening revivalism.

 

[N. Eshelman]

As someone already said, it stemmed out of a Roman Catholicism thought.

Actually the Romans stole (no pun intended) the tab collar from the Anglicans.

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 06:46:13 EST-----

It runs in my mind that Kim Riddlebarger said once on the WHI that he wears a Geneva gown. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, he does. Mike now preaches in a black Genevan gown. I do - when I'm preaching at Oceanside URC or in other pulpits where it is the practice. Danny Hyde preaches in a black Geneva gown.

The real questions are whether there is a ministerial office in the church and whether it is appropriate for the minister to wear some symbol of that office? The Reformed in the 16th and 17th century answered yes to both questions. As far as I can tell the principal reason for abandoning the uniform attached to the office was democratic, egalitarian, second-great- awakening revivalism.

My understanding was that the gown was taken from the academy and was to represent the role of the teacher, and was not related to the office, per se, but a cultural symbol of one who teaches?

This is still seen to some degree in the academy, but mostly during graduation, when men wear their full teaching garb. (Do you have a photo of you in yours that you could share?)

So, I am not sure that it is so much the office, but the teacher, aspect of teaching-elder.

 

[Christusregnat]

Phew, I'm glad my collars are Baptist. I wouldn't want to be in a cult.

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 02:58:24 EST-----

So, I am not sure that it is so much the office, but the teacher, aspect of teaching-elder.

By the bye, as I mentioned here or somewhere else, this is why Paul and Barnabbas were recognized as rabbins in the synagogues: they wore teacher's garb.

Cheers,

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

As someone already said, it stemmed out of a Roman Catholicism thought.

Actually the Romans stole (no pun intended) the tab collar from the Anglicans.

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 06:46:13 EST-----

It runs in my mind that Kim Riddlebarger said once on the WHI that he wears a Geneva gown. Can anyone confirm this?

Yes, he does. Mike now preaches in a black Genevan gown. I do - when I'm preaching at Oceanside URC or in other pulpits where it is the practice. Danny Hyde preaches in a black Geneva gown.

The real questions are whether there is a ministerial office in the church and whether it is appropriate for the minister to wear some symbol of that office? The Reformed in the 16th and 17th century answered yes to both questions. As far as I can tell the principal reason for abandoning the uniform attached to the office was democratic, egalitarian, second-great- awakening revivalism.

Do the TFU have anything to say on the matter Dr. Clark?

And does this discussion have underlying it how we understand the number of offices in the Church? (i.e.- whether or not the Minister is a separate office from the Ruling Elder)

 

[R. Scott Clark]

My understanding was that the gown was taken from the academy and was to represent the role of the teacher, and was not related to the office, per se, but a cultural symbol of one who teaches?

Yes, this is true. Luther adapted the black academic robe in the 1520s. He needed an alternative to priestly vestments. He adapted the black robe, which has ironically come to be known as the Genevan gown. Even more ironically, so much do some Lutherans hate us that they won't wear it! That's just stupid, of course.

This is still seen to some degree in the academy, but mostly during graduation, when men wear their full teaching garb. (Do you have a photo of you in yours that you could share?)

There are some photos on facebook, I think. There might be some on wscal.edu. My doctoral robes are red and blue. My genevan robe is very simple and unadorned.

The loss of distinctive clerical clothing is symbolic of the erosion of the minister's office.

Yes, I favor the three-office view. You can see it defended in John Armstrong, ed. The Compromised Church. Derke Bergsma laid out a version of the three-office view there.

 

[Christusregnat]

And Jesus as well."Rabbi," "Master," "Good Teacher," or examples of him teaching in the Temple, etc. I think there's a way of recognizing Jesus' authority, even if one had not yet met him or seen him teaching in the temple.

Excellent point! I was avoiding the WWJD, because someone would pipe up with Veggie Tales themed music and say "Well, that's cuz He was Messiah" or something like that.

Cheers,