Scriptural Support for Cosmic Treason

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RobertPGH1981

Puritan Board Sophomore
Hello All,

I was reading up on the concept of Cosmic Treason and eternal punishment. It stems from the claims from non-believers stating that God is unjust for punishing sin eternally when the sins were in a finite amount of time. I am looking for scriptural support on the following statements by R.C. Sproul below. I realize they minimize the seriousness of their sin but am looking for additional scriptural support to backup my claims.

I was reading an article by R.C. Sproul titled 'How Can an Infinite Hell Be Just When Our Sins Are Finite?" When R.C. says, "Hell lacks the common grace of God, the restraining grace of God. It is true that even the sinners below confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, but they do so with clenched teeth, seething with rage. It is true that their knees are bowed, but only because our Lord has broken them with a rod of iron. They hate God and curse Him for eternity."

I am looking up scriptural support to back up the claims made in this paragraph, or if you have better verses and/or articles please pass them along.

God bless,

Rob
 

jw

Administrator
We strongly reject the idea that "finite" sins do not deserve a mere man's eternal punishment, the chasm between infinite and finite, Creator and creature, being impassible. Really no need to defend Mr. Sproul's statement, if one understands the more foundational problem with denying the eternal punishment of men for their finite sins.

God -being perfection and infinite- sinned against, is a God ever angry against those sins . . . unless paid for by a Perfect Mediator, namely, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who was both God and Man, and -therefore- capable of suffering once and for all for the sins of the elect.

Only Christ could fully satisfy the Father's wrath against sin, as there is no other suitable mediator. Ergo, a man without Christ, is a man without ability to pay, hence, his "payment" will last for all eternity, and the smoke of his torment will go up for ever.

Westminster Larger Catechism:

Q. 38. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death; give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience and intercession; and to satisfy God’s justice, procure his favor, purchase a peculiar people, give his Spirit to them, conquer all their enemies, and bring them to everlasting salvation.

Acts 2:24-25; Rom. 1:4; Rom. 4:25; Heb. 9:14; Acts 20:28; Heb. 9:14; Heb. 7:25-28; Rom. 3:24-26; Eph. 1:6; Matt. 3:17; Titus 2:13-14; Gal. 4:6; Luke 1:68-69, 71, 74; Heb. 5:8-9; Heb. 9:11-15.

Q. 39. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature, perform obedience to the law, suffer and make intercession for us in our nature, have a fellow-feeling of our infirmities; that we might receive the adoption of sons, and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.

Heb. 2:16; Gal. 4:4; Heb. 2:14; Heb. 7:24-25; Heb. 4:15; Gal. 4:5; Heb. 4:16.

Q. 40. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God and man in one person?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator, who was to reconcile God and man, should himself be both God and man, and this in one person, that the proper works of each nature might be accepted of God for us, and relied on by us, as the works of the whole person.

Matt. 1:21, 23; Matt. 3:17; Heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 2:6.​
 

Ryan&Amber2013

Puritan Board Junior
It's interesting as I have never understood the gnashing of teeth reference as one of hatred and anger towards God, but of being in a state of absolute dread and terror. My understanding comes from when I was younger, I suffered with severe asthma. I would lay in my bed at night sometimes, so scared because I could barely breathe. In my fear, I would gnash and grind my teeth all night, trying to make it through. I remember, even days after, my jaw would be soar to chew because of the pressure in clenching when I was suffering.
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
"Hell lacks the common grace of God, the restraining grace of God."

If I may ask....Does the sinner in hell have some type of life in hell? in my opinion they do, and even though they rather cease to exist they still do not recognize this is a common grace God bestows upon them in that place.
 

RobertPGH1981

Puritan Board Sophomore
It's interesting as I have never understood the gnashing of teeth reference as one of hatred and anger towards God, but of being in a state of absolute dread and terror. My understanding comes from when I was younger, I suffered with severe asthma. I would lay in my bed at night sometimes, so scared because I could barely breathe. In my fear, I would gnash and grind my teeth all night, trying to make it through. I remember, even days after, my jaw would be soar to chew because of the pressure in clenching when I was suffering.

It could be all of the above... I googled weeping and gnashing of teeth and it says Pain, Anguish and Anger. I always thought the pain and anguish part but never considered the anger part.
 

RobertPGH1981

Puritan Board Sophomore
If I may ask....Does the sinner in hell have some type of life in hell? in my opinion they do, and even though they rather cease to exist they still do not recognize this is a common grace God bestows upon them in that place.

What do you mean by they cease to exist? The story that comes to mind is the Rich man and Lazarus. See Luke 16:19-31 and statements made by Jesus describing hell as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

RobertPGH1981

Puritan Board Sophomore
We strongly reject the idea that "finite" sins do not deserve a mere man's eternal punishment, the chasm between infinite and finite, Creator and creature, being impassible.

I am really trying to get to the root of this statement through scripture. I recognize a mediator is necessary but, I am trying to demonstrate this through scripture alone.

EDIT: In other words trying to tag versus to statements being made. Its self explanatory but the claim is that its not just for God to punish man for eternity. I am taking that and trying to demonstrate why its Just.
 
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earl40

Puritan Board Professor
What do you mean by they cease to exist? The story that comes to mind is the Rich man and Lazarus. See Luke 16:19-31 and statements made by Jesus describing hell as a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth.

All I was pointing out it is a common grace the sinner is still alive in hell.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
they still do not recognize this is a common grace God bestows upon them in that place.

This first quotation may not be directly to the topic but hopefully it will be helpful It's from question from Fisher's Catechism which is a sub-question of the Westminister Shorter Catechism question 4. What is God?

Q. 40. How is he [God] present in hell?
A. In a way of tremendous power and justice, upholding the damned in their being, that they may lie under the strokes of his vindictive wrath for evermore, Psalm 90:11; Matt. 25:46.

In my reading of Scripture, I do not see anything of common grace in hell. Nor do I know the state of the heart of the damned. But as to remaining alive through all eternity being in any way a grace or mercy, I beg to differ. These are the same people who wanted desperately to die at the Lord's coming. Anialation is the blessed hope of the unbeliever.

Luke 23:29a-30
29a For, behold, the days are coming
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

Revelation 9:6
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
My mistake I misunderstood. In their state wouldn't it be better if they didn't exist anymore?

We all need the eternal perspective in this area. Better for who is the question. Our Lord providentially wills all that passes is for His glory, which includes those who are in hell and are alive manifesting to creation the justice of God. I understand to call such "grace" seems odd, but if one understands His glory is manifested in suffering (Jesus as the example) one can almost understand it is a blessing to have God manifest His judgment to all in the afterlife. Also the fact of the matter remains in that all creatures live, move, and breath by His grace as it says in Acts. which in my opinion does not change after one physically dies.

PS. I totally agree, for the sinner in hell, it would have been better if he never was born.
 
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De Jager

Puritan Board Sophomore
Hello All,

I was reading up on the concept of Cosmic Treason and eternal punishment. It stems from the claims from non-believers stating that God is unjust for punishing sin eternally when the sins were in a finite amount of time. I am looking for scriptural support on the following statements by R.C. Sproul below. I realize they minimize the seriousness of their sin but am looking for additional scriptural support to backup my claims.

I was reading an article by R.C. Sproul titled 'How Can an Infinite Hell Be Just When Our Sins Are Finite?" When R.C. says, "Hell lacks the common grace of God, the restraining grace of God. It is true that even the sinners below confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, but they do so with clenched teeth, seething with rage. It is true that their knees are bowed, but only because our Lord has broken them with a rod of iron. They hate God and curse Him for eternity."

I am looking up scriptural support to back up the claims made in this paragraph, or if you have better verses and/or articles please pass them along.

God bless,

Rob

A person who is unregenerate is by nature is an enemy of God, hostile to God, and does not want God in their life (1 Cor 2:14, Romans 8:7, Romans 3:11). They heap up sin every day, in fact every day they increase their guilt (Heidelberg Catechism QA 13).

Someone who dies in an unregenerate state continues with their same attitudes toward God. Therefore, even into eternity, they daily increase their guilt. They are guilty of more and more sin as each day passes. Even in Hell, they sin, because they do not love God, and failing to love God, is a sin.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
It could be all of the above... I googled weeping and gnashing of teeth and it says Pain, Anguish and Anger. I always thought the pain and anguish part but never considered the anger part.
When you gnash your teeth, you clench your teeth. It could be in pain, anguish, or anger. Context reveals the proper emotion.

Those in hell never repent of their sins. If they did, they would recognize they are exactly where they should be. Instead they continue to defiantly gnash their teeth with fists upward at God. Their continued sinning, in this sense, warrants their continued punishment. It could be said, the gates of hell are locked from the inside.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
I am really trying to get to the root of this statement through scripture. I recognize a mediator is necessary but, I am trying to demonstrate this through scripture alone.

EDIT: In other words trying to tag versus to statements being made. Its self explanatory but the claim is that its not just for God to punish man for eternity. I am taking that and trying to demonstrate why its Just.
Turretin is instructive:
http://articles.ochristian.com/article3217.shtml
 
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