Self-Love - is it ever ok?

Is self-love ever ok?

  • Yes - when it is appropriately expressed

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No - self-love is by definition inappropriate

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • I am not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • the concept of self-love cannot be derived or explored from this text

    Votes: 4 36.4%

  • Total voters
    11
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I really think it is as simple as a child would understand. It doesn't take a parsing of the term "love." Self-love is the desire for good things for me. I naturally want to be treated well, to be happy, to enjoy life. I naturally want to feel good, to be fed, to be comfortable. Self-tending, self-care, these are all aspects of self love.

Jesus is telling us to transfer that desire to our neighbors. It's a simple concept, and a radical one in practice.

It's not a matter of loving our neighbors with some particular quality of love, or some particular definition of love. It's basically the God ordained motive behind the "Golden Rule."

Of course there are the perversions of love found in all fallen people: narcissism, self absorbtion, vindictiveness (stemming from a desire to be considered the better of another), back-biting (self-preservation run amok), gossip (again, trying to get ahead by trashing others). None of these are being addressed in the command to love your neighbor as yourself. The command doesn't demand reading into it such subtleties.

:2cents:
 
It's ok Todd - repetition is key to learning. No need to get snippy :) - I am truly trying to pull out every iota of meaning from the Word of God. I am not inclined or willing to say or respond to - "it is what it is and that's it, so get over it and give up!", particularly when it does not seem to be - even though it makes me the target of anger and frustration from my brothers.

I am sorry you are frustrated, but as you point out, there is an implicit assumption of some sort of self-love - how that is defined or contextualized may seem plain to you or falls into in the arena of Deut. 29:29, but it seems to me as if there are relevant and useful areas to explore:

Does Christ equate all men's self-love similarly?

Is the sheep's love for themselves the same as the goats'?

Is the good and faithful servants' love for themselves the same as the wicked servant?

JD, you're assuming that Christians do love themselves. I don't think that is a given. In fact, I believe that view has been opposed by Todd, Matthew and myself. I applaud your desire to, "pull out every iota of meaning from the Word of God." In my humble opinion you're trying to milk a dry cow in Matthew 22. Matthew 22 does not exist in a vacuum. I've attempted to shed the light of 1 John 4, Ephesians 2 and Philippians 2 on the discussion, but you keep coming back to your presupposition. It's interesting that you have posted this thread in the exegetical forum. Exegesis is precisely what you have not provided.
 
Question: Did Jesus love his neighbor as He loved Himself?

Are you suggesting that Jesus loved Himself? For what purpose would He need to love Himself?

To continue answering questions with questions:

Do you believe Jesus did not love Himself? Did Jesus hate Himself?

JD, I do not believe Jesus loved Himself. He had no need to love Himself. The godhead exists in perfection. No one member of the godhead needs to validate his own existence through self-love. How can perfection be improved upon?
 
People, this thread isn't going to stay open much longer. Make your closing arguments.
 
Brother Bill - I am not trying to make you angry.

JD, you're assuming that Christians do love themselves. I don't think that is a given.In fact, I believe that view has been opposed by Todd, Matthew and myself.

I think that Christ believes Christians love themselves in some way - otherwise the command does not apply to Christians. How that self-love is expressed is exactly what I am trying to pull out.

I applaud your desire to, "pull out every iota of meaning from the Word of God." In my humble opinion you're trying to milk a dry cow in Matthew 22. Matthew 22 does not exist in a vacuum. I've attempted to shed the light of 1 John 4, Ephesians 2 and Philippians 2 on the discussion, but you keep coming back to your presupposition.

I am not presupposing anything except what the Scripture plainly says - "as you love yourself" - that clearly has an expectation of some sort of love for self. I am exploring if the love for self of a Christian is any different than the love for self of the unregenerate. Also, whatever points you may have tried to bring up in the previous thread probably got buried.

It's interesting that you have posted this thread in the exegetical forum. Exegesis is precisely what you have not provided.

Thanks, Bill - your opinion matters to me and your criticism does, too - please keep in mind that I am your brother in Christ - give straightforward correction as appropriate, but bind it in love, if you don't mind. I will walk away from this discussion with no animosity, I hope you will, too. :)
 
My humble :2cents: is that the very fact that this question is being asked is deeply shameful.
Mike, I think our Brother asked an interesting question he asked in a humble and open-minded manner, I find it odd you find it "deeply shameful" that people explore difficult passages and question on a Theological forum. Should the Brother ask infidels about matters of our Blessed faith? Why not bring it up among fellow believers. Peace Out.
 
A regenerated God-centered self-love.

This is a contradiction in terms because a regenerated God-centred love is not directed towards itself but towards others. It is the point of "object" which your language seems to be overlooking. Self-love has self as the object of the love. The point of the command is to make us look away from our own desires and interests.

Rev. Winzer, I see where you are coming from but I cannot get away from the fact that we are commanded to love others as we love ourselves.

As a Christian, I do not love myself anymore, so what am I to do?
 
JD, I am not angry at all. Everything I have typed as been in the spirit of Christian love.

:handshake:
 
JD, before I close this thread I am going to ask you to go back to Matthew 22 and figure out who Jesus was talking to. Who was He addressing, specifically? See if you conclude if He was talking to a group who, lost in their sin, was trying to trap Him. Then to go to 1 John 4 and see how the believer is to supposed to interact with love.
 
Okay, on that note this thread has served its purpose. Life cycle is over. Thanks to all.
 
It's ok Todd - repetition is key to learning. No need to get snippy :) - I am truly trying to pull out every iota of meaning from the Word of God. I am not inclined or willing to say or respond to - "it is what it is and that's it, so get over it and give up!", particularly when it does not seem to be - even though it makes me the target of anger and frustration from my brothers.

I am sorry you are frustrated, but as you point out, there is an implicit assumption of some sort of self-love - how that is defined or contextualized may seem plain to you or falls into in the arena of Deut. 29:29, but it seems to me as if there are relevant and useful areas to explore:

Does Christ equate all men's self-love similarly?

Is the sheep's love for themselves the same as the goats'?

Is the good and faithful servants' love for themselves the same as the wicked servants'?

My main point, brother, is that there is a limit to what you can get out of a given text. Christ's words, taken as you have, by themselves in a small section of Matthew's Gospel, can only teach so much. Your questions above cannot be answered by the verses you were talking about.

I'm only objecting to your wanting to draw teaching out of Christ's words in this particular place in Scripture that I quite honestly believe, and many here have echoed the same thoughts, is not found there. The doctrine you're trying to find may exist in Scripture - but just not here. It may even be consistent with what is found in these few verses - but that doesn't imply that these verses teach (or even support) that doctrine.

That's all. It's all good.
 
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