Seminary Students on Food Stamps

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Bill The Baptist

Puritan Board Graduate
I have just recently started attending seminary and my family and I have just moved into campus housing. I was a little shocked to discover that virtually all of the students with families are receiving food stamps. I personally have mixed feelings about that, however I do understand how difficult it is to make ends meet while going to school full-time, especially with five children. It is very difficult to work a regular full-time job and still manage the work load. Most of the students have two or three part-time jobs which gives them the flexibility to work around their school schedule, but do not pay alot. The school of course does not have student loans and most of the students receive little if any ecclessiastical support. My question is this, is it right for a seminary student to accept government assistance while they are in school? And if not, what other choice is there for someone with such a large family?
 
Yes. If the programme exists & you qualify, participate.

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good.
 
I would take all the assistance you need. In fact, I'm a little confused. Why not take it (other than pride)? :think:
 
Not everyone is blessed with family $$$ or grants to pursue studies they cannot easily afford.

I understand and somewhat share your concern though, but I wouldn't say anything.
 
I don't have a problem with government assistance. The problem is with people taking it who don't actually need it (i.e. people who are fully capable of working and earning the money)
 
I would take all the assistance you need. In fact, I'm a little confused. Why not take it (other than pride)? :think:

I tend to agree that you should take whatever assistance you can, but I also understand that some would have a problem with it based on the fact that you are perfectly capable of supporting your own family if you hadn't chosen to attend seminary.
 
I tend to agree that you should take whatever assistance you can, but I also understand that some would have a problem with it based on the fact that you are perfectly capable of supporting your own family if you hadn't chosen to attend seminary.

with that logic, then no one should receive any kind of assistance because everyone would be capable of supporting themselves/their family if only in a different circumstance.
 
I tend to agree that you should take whatever assistance you can, but I also understand that some would have a problem with it based on the fact that you are perfectly capable of supporting your own family if you hadn't chosen to attend seminary

That is making the assumption that one was perfectly capable of supporting their family.
 
with that logic, then no one should receive any kind of assistance because everyone would be capable of supporting themselves/their family if only in a different circumstance.

With THAT logic, everyone should receive assistance because they are capable of putting themselves in circumstances where they cannot support their family.

The real question here is whether the welfare benefits are a means provided so that you can meet God's call to the ministry, or is the lack of ability to attend without government assistance an indication that you haven't been called to go to seminary as a full time student at this time.
 
with that logic, then no one should receive any kind of assistance because everyone would be capable of supporting themselves/their family if only in a different circumstance.

With THAT logic, everyone should receive assistance because they are capable of putting themselves in circumstances where they cannot support their family.

The real question here is whether the welfare benefits are a means provided so that you can meet God's call to the ministry, or is the lack of ability to attend without government assistance an indication that you haven't been called to go to seminary as a full time student at this time.

You make some good points, but the reality is that without the benefits of a wealthy family or financial support from your church or loans, it would be impossible for most men with a wife and kids to support to ever attend seminary. Perhaps seminaries should reconsider their policies on student loans. Most of these institutions are eligible to participate in the federal student loan program, but choose not to because they do not believe it is wise to encourage debt. I think they are absolutely right, but they do not leave students with many options other than to resort to things like public assistance.
 
public assistance is a miilion times better than thousands of dollars in student loan debt.
 
it depends on their circumstances; they may need it, they may not. But part of the circumstance is their attitude and orientation toward it. A right, or a gift? A temporary situation, or "as long as I can get it"? While this is not stealing, strictly speaking, Ephesians makes the point of saying get a job so you can provide for others instead of taking what is not yours. I'd think receiving something as a temporary gift with the understanding that you will soon providing for others, can be justified.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 PM ----------

While this is not stealing, strictly speaking

Insofar as it is enforced by the government, that is. Since the funds for securing the food stamps are only received under coercion; i.e. taxation.
 
Grateful my family was able to help pay my way through school, even though I wasn't very focused for the earlier years.
 
Those "programs" are merely a redistribution of other's wealth through an inefficient, self seeking bureaucracy as middle man.

I found out, after graduating from college that I "qualified" (to have bureaucrats force others to pay for me), but I was convicted enough, based on the way I was raised not to go near that. It never even crossed my mind.

Interestingly, there was a time in graduate school I earned even less than in college- but somehow I never went to the government.

Did, one time, go to the church, they helped me part way with a dentist, then I made payments, but never to the government.

I'm very glad my parents raised me with a couple key principles- no body owes you anything, and life isn't fair.

Curiously, this has made me more conscious of my dependence on God, more thankful for what I do have, more likely to save and work for things I want (like college).

Most curious of all, it has made me more generous with what He gives me, and more disgusted at attempts by government to subterfuge that. (To God be all the glory)


... By the way, this kind of thinking has lead full circle in the United States. We now have a generation of people who think it a crisis to not be able to buy a 3,200 square foot *starter* home, pretty much regardless of their ability to pay. And in two short years we have mortgaged 1.5 trillion dollars of government debt to pay for that false expectation.
 
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public assistance is a miilion times better than thousands of dollars in student loan debt.

I'm not American, so I'm not being affected directly in this case, but do you really mean that having the public taxed to pay for one's schooling is a "million times better" than you being responsible for paying for your own education? I'm not saying that their aren't extreme cases where it would be the right decision to take a hand-out, but where does personal responsibility come into play?
 
well obviously if one can pay for their own schooling, then they shouldn't take government assistance. I thought I made that clear in a previous post. But if the assistance is available, then I would take it. And as a taxpayer it doesn't bother me one bit that people get assistance when they truly need it.
 
Socialism is evil in all of its forms. It is a violation of the eighth commandment. Where are the churches that sent these men to seminary?
 
Accepting foodstamps sounds like good stewardship. Take every penny you can find, become an expert in government subsidies so you might instruct others to do likewise.
 
How do we define whether someone truly "needs" the assistance?

If some is capable of doing without government assistance, but taking the government assistance means he can spend more time with his family and on his studies, and he fulfills the spirit of the requirements set out by the government for the assistance, isn't it a good thing to take the help?
 
SBC Seminaries jettisoned student loans back in the 90s. They make you think they're giving you the gold in Fort Knox by signing your deferral papers from undergrad loans. Now, they will loan short-term money at high interest if you have an emergency, but not to go to school.

It's a specious argument to say that if you don't have all the money to go to seminary, you're not called. So God only calls the financially well-off?

And just for the sake of argument, for all those saying you should turn aside Food Stamps, would you turn aside public education? Pell Grants for undergraduate study? State subsidy grants for undergrad work? Tax credits for buying certain items? Tax credits/deductions of any kind? All these things are paid for at some level on the public dole. I get the point as a libertarian (small "l") but maybe my viewpoint is different from having been there and knowing the sacrifice you make just by showing up.

I know pastors who are on food stamps. Should they refuse them? Should any Christian? Why differentiate because the person is a seminarian?
 
Lots of good points on both sides on this thread.

One thing to keep in mind is that the current model for higher education in this country is not sustainable. Most universities are no longer able to deliver a product which is worth the cost. And the same may be true for seminaries. The current seminaries are trying to adapt by decentralizing their delivery so that you can continued to be employed and be a part time student at your hone locale rather than be a full time student with part time jobs in a distant city.

Does anyone have a handy list of all of the cities where you can get at least a BR education?
 
Does anyone have a handy list of all of the cities where you can get at least a BR education?

Every city. Liberty online has provided a way for anyone to get an undergrad in religion and this degree is accepted at most if not all major seminaries.
 
Socialism is evil in all of its forms. It is a violation of the eighth commandment. Where are the churches that sent these men to seminary?

Rev. Underwood- I couldn't agree more! I have seen too many Reformed guys struggle to pay bills, or buy things like starters for their 34 year old cars, or radiators, or even something simple like a gift for their 5 year old's birthday. I say my own father and our poverty growing up, while I saw the Southern Baptists pay guys (put them on staff) and pay their seminary. The SB's seemed to always treat their seminary students better then the Reformed churches I knew. Probably all a money issue, but I knew too many guys who thought poverty was next to godliness.
 
You didn't just equate the slaughter of innocent lives with a govt issue debit card to buy cereal, did you?
 
I don't think the question is "Are food stamps lawful?" Clearly, they now are (though I don't believe they were ever in the minds of the Framers, but that's my opinion). The question was "Is this ethical/moral/right?"

Thank you for clarifying your post.
 
Every city. Liberty online has provided a way for anyone to get an undergrad in religion and this degree is accepted at most if not all major seminaries.

I wasn't clear in my post - I was referring to a seminary education. That clarification aside, I wouldn't include Liberty as being broadly reformed.
 
This is a difficult issue. I believe that the whole "food stamp" system is flawed. The Seminary student would not NEED the foodstamps in the first place, if his money was not being taken and redistributed to others. Even a person with a relatively low income, pays in excess of 20 percent of his or her income to taxes. Social Security (which the younger will never see), Medicare (which the younger will never see), sales tax, property tax, and state income tax, are all HUGE drains on a person. Believe it or not, despite what they are "labeled" for, the recent budget debates have brought to the forefront that the great majority of this money is going to welfare programs, medicare, etc. that is for OTHER people, other than the recipient.

In other words, the so called "hand out" that MOST food stamp recipients are getting, is actually nothing more than a return of their own money!! This of course does not apply to those doing nothing.

Now, putting all of this aside, the questions you must ask are #1 Is receiving food stamps in such a situation sinful? I believe the answer is a resounding "No!" If you are forced into a horrible (I believe) semi-socialist system, because the government is ripping a gargantuan amount of money from your paycheck, it is not wrong to submit to that system and take some of your money back. If that is the case, NONE of you better take tax deductions...

#2 The question is "whose money is it?" Why, the money is the Lord's. And for whatever reason (judgment, perhaps?) God has allowed our country to dip its toes into socialism. Food stamps, then, are absolutely God's provision!

So, in conclusion, I have no problem with ANYONE taking food stamps, Seminary students or no. In fact, I encourage everyone I know of, to let go of their pride, and accept some of their money back through WHATEVER program they qualify for. The amount of money they receive, in most cases, could never possibly match what they paid in. The government makes sure of that. If we are going to live in a "semi-socialist" system, then our Christian duty is to submit to that system until God decides to free us from it.
 
accepting food stamps to get an education in a field that you aren't guaranteed any type of job and if you get a job aren't guaranteed any type of reasonable pay seems odd. The whole seminary model is broken. churches don't supports and seminaries dont educate in areas that need to be taught. :2cents:
 
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