Should I learn a Trade?

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Ben,
So even with a college degree you don't think you could find suitable work to provide for yourself and a family? Seems like part-time teaching would be an option or even tutoring considering your degree. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about tradesmen, but I just dont know if I believe that a brand-new apprentice tradesman or one with a few years experience will make more than someone with a college degree. Aren't the big-time earners those who own their own businesses or are the foreman, etc? Again, I don't have any hard evidence, but I feel confident that your average locksmith makes less money than a college-educated schoolteacher. I'd suggest trying to get experience in a field more closely related to your degree. Or continue your experience in the job you most recently held. There is good money to be made in a law firm. Have you considered training to become a legal assistant?
 
Ben,
So even with a college degree you don't think you could find suitable work to provide for yourself and a family? Seems like part-time teaching would be an option or even tutoring considering your degree. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about tradesmen, but I just dont know if I believe that a brand-new apprentice tradesman or one with a few years experience will make more than someone with a college degree. Aren't the big-time earners those who own their own businesses or are the foreman, etc? Again, I don't have any hard evidence, but I feel confident that your average locksmith makes less money than a college-educated schoolteacher. I'd suggest trying to get experience in a field more closely related to your degree. Or continue your experience in the job you most recently held. There is good money to be made in a law firm. Have you considered training to become a legal assistant?

I'm not saying I couldn't find work; and teaching would definitely be my ideal plan B. The only potential challenge is that while I am doing a degree in education it is not one that would be recognized by any public schools or some private schools. So if there was a private school (or especially a Classical school) I could probably get work but my options are more limited. Again, I'm not afraid I'll starve, but I think diversifying your skills as an individual is wise and I do think we miss out on something when we lose the ability to work with our hands.
 
If you want to sacrifice a tad I hear the oil fields in the Dakotas are the place to be to earn a good amount of money which could probably finance your entire future studies.

One caution on that (and the Texas oil fields). Things were really booming at $100.00 a barrel. Folks are beginning to at least think about cutting back at $75. And if oil drops to $60, there will probably be a collapse in new activity, although the producers will continue to pump from holes already in the ground.

So excellent advice 6 months ago needs to be approached with a bit more caution today.


I hear ya, though I strongly suspect the only way to reach 60 dollars a barrel is to ramp up production in the fracking. From your lips to God's ears on the 60 a barrel. :)
 
As one who had to learn a trade later in life, my advice would be to do so while you are young and more fleet of mind and have more flexibility in your life, IF you think it is necessary. But more to the point of the OP, I think you would be better counseled by Elders who know you and your situation. The relative strangers on the PB can do little more than offer opinions based on our own frames of reference. The Lord has given us the Local Body to assist in such life decisions. The entirety of internet wisdom is a poor substitute, at best, for the counsel of men who know and love you in Christ.
 
As one who had to learn a trade later in life, my advice would be to do so while you are young and more fleet of mind and have more flexibility in your life, IF you think it is necessary. But more to the point of the OP, I think you would be better counseled by Elders who know you and your situation. The relative strangers on the PB can do little more than offer opinions based on our own frames of reference. The Lord has given us the Local Body to assist in such life decisions. The entirety of internet wisdom is a poor substitute, at best, for the counsel of men who know and love you in Christ.

Wise words.
 
Hi Ben,
As another avenue to consider, I workded as a security guard during my days as an undergraduate and in graduate school. While it did not pay great ($10/hour), it was worth it because I would essentially study for the entire 8 hour shift. This meant that I got my work and studies done at the same time, which enabled me to be completey present for my family while not at work. Also, when you are sitting at a desk and cannot leave, there is nothing to distract you. I would get tons of reading, writing, and just plain reflecting done. It may be something to consider as there is virtually no training, pays decently, and jobs are readily available.
GM

Is that only night shifts?
 
I think that the wisdom of the counsel of James Helbert (Southern Presbyterian) cannot be overestimated.

The reason that you need to consult local advice is that those who know you and your circumstances best can best advise with respect to such. I say this because your various replies seem to indicate that you think that it would, in most any case, be good for a man in preparation for gospel ministry to have a trade, both for more profitable earnings (and thus also lessening debt) as well as to be able to work with his hands. While both of these have their own virtues, it is simply not the case that anything like a universal rule can be laid down here. This is why local consultation is needed.

In some cases, it would be, or might prove, useful; in other cases, it would be a waste of time for a man entering into the sort of work for which he is clearly most fitted. Only those that know you best and can also make the most honest and intelligent assessment of you and your gifts are those who views matter in such a case as this.

Peace,
Alan
 
I felt the same way you did before going to Seminary. While I wanted to devote the whole of my time to the ministry I wanted to learn a trade in case I found myself in a church that could not support me full time. This proved to be wise. I also wanted to work with my hands and became interested in house painting. I did this the summer before going to seminary. Upon graduation I found myself in the full-time ministry. However, I switched denominations and found myself out of the ministry for a couple of years. During this time I picked up painting again and started my own business. Now I am back in the ministry but in a small church that cannot afford a full-time minister. While I look forward to giving the whole of my time to the ministry, my present situation works for me. Now I only paint three days a week and hold office hours at my church during the off days.
 
Hi Ben,
As another avenue to consider, I workded as a security guard during my days as an undergraduate and in graduate school. While it did not pay great ($10/hour), it was worth it because I would essentially study for the entire 8 hour shift. This meant that I got my work and studies done at the same time, which enabled me to be completey present for my family while not at work. Also, when you are sitting at a desk and cannot leave, there is nothing to distract you. I would get tons of reading, writing, and just plain reflecting done. It may be something to consider as there is virtually no training, pays decently, and jobs are readily available.
GM

Is that only night shifts?

No. In fact, I never worked the night shift. I didn't think that it would be prudent with a family. Each post has its own requirements, and I would just ask for one that it would be okay for me to read at.
 
But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful

I would submit that the inverse is true. Taking on debt so one can graduate from seminary at a young age is far worse than taking a bit of time, learning a trade that will enable you to support your family while in seminary and perhaps enable you accept a call to a smaller, less wealthy church.

Read Post #15 - http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/should-i-learn-trade-85232/#post1063164


I am not just answering Ben's question, but a larger question of many who today think that a minister must have some sort of business experience, trade/real world experience, or a fall back plan before entering the ministry. But in my answer I address also what Ben is dealing with particularly and yours that you bring up. If it is necessary (and right) to bring about the following of God's call that you have to take on a trade (not learn a trade), then you should do it in so much as it brings about the following of God's call. To learn a trade just to learn a trade and thus postpone the calling of God in any unneedful way, is sinful.

While I know where you are coming from you're really overplaying your hand. How is learning a trade while going to seminary sinful? He is pursuing his calling what lets differentiate between callings, is it internal or external? It is probably internal? How long would he have to wait for a call to a church?
What he is doing is wise considering the fact that many who were trained to be pastors aren't even pastoring though they aspired to do so and likely still do. What if things don't quite work out at the church? What is he to do then? How will be provide for his family?
Yes, God is in control but just because one pursues pastoral ministry doesn't mean the journey won't be hard or a free pass.
 
How is learning a trade while going to seminary sinful?

I didn't say that.

He is pursuing his calling what lets differentiate between callings, is it internal or external?

This is a man in my presbytery, and I believe his church session has seen gifts in him to pursue pastoral ministry, so there is internal but also some external.


What if things don't quite work out at the church?

If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.
 
If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.

I suppose this comment needs to be parsed fairly closely. You are correct in that if God has called a man to a particular ministry, then it is going to work out per God's plan. But that doesn't mean that a pastor is never going to be left holding the bag at some point, perhaps even through no fault of his own. Thus, in a temporal sense, things haven't worked out, and a prudent pastor will have prepared himself so that he can support his family through such times.
 
If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.

I suppose this comment needs to be parsed fairly closely. You are correct in that if God has called a man to a particular ministry, then it is going to work out per God's plan. But that doesn't mean that a pastor is never going to be left holding the bag at some point, perhaps even through no fault of his own. Thus, in a temporal sense, things haven't worked out, and a prudent pastor will have prepared himself so that he can support his family through such times.

I agree, and I've been in that situation.
 
Locksmithing isn't a high demand trade, does require some intensive training, and expensive tools. And locksmiths don't have helpers, so you'd have to be fully qualified before anybody'd risk hiring you. The HVAC thing may be a good direction to work just as a helper. You'd make a decent wage, it's in high demand, and even if you don't pursue it any further than 6 months to a year, it'd give you good mechanical experience to carry with you into life. A good and patient tech will use his helper for more than just toting things, and will teach him quite a bit over the course of a few months.
 
Here is another idea: why not work for several years before going to seminary so that you can adequately support yourself when you get there without having to worry about taking on a job on the side? Doing this would permit you to give your studies your full attention. Speaking as one who has taught undergraduates, it is generally not a good idea for students' time to be taken up with other things. Okay, seminary is a bit different, especially as many divinity students pursuing ministry are married, but I think you should minimise the distractions as much as possible.
 
Ben,

I hardly ever get any feedback when I suggest this, but I'll give it a shot again anyway.

Another option to consider would be to become a reserve Air Force Chaplain. I say Air Force, because their program seems to be the most enticing, although you could consider chaplaincy in other branches of the Armed Forces. More information is available at this link:

http://www.afrc.af.mil/library/chaplain/howtojoin/candidate/index.asp

Some key benefits? $4500 annual tuition reimbursement after training, 2nd LT pay and benefits and diverse ministry training opportunities.

I know that some people are concerned about the ecumenical nature of chaplains and how that affects their ability to take a stand for the gospel. However, those are challenges that are being faced even by those outside of military service. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. I have over 16 years of military service, I'm currently on active duty with the Navy, and I've encountered and associated with Chaplains of all stripes. Just my :2cents: Take it for what it's worth...

In Him,

Craig
 
As many of you know, I'm currently serving as a Pastoral intern with a Presbyterian church in England for a year but will be returning back home to Wichita, Kansas in June, 2015. There is no doubt in my mind that I am called to the Pastoral ministry; and like many who are so called I feel very at home in the world of ideas. Liberal arts, teaching, theology, etc... all come naturally to me. However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind. I also see the value in learning a trade or skill that I can use were God to ever put me in a situation where I needed to be bi-vocational etc... Practically as well, I'll (Lord willing) be getting married next summer soon after I get back and will need at least a year before I go off to seminary. I'm wondering if having a skill or trade would help me to find part-time work while in school. I also know that tradesmen can often earn more than unskilled jobs, and I think that having a trade would be of help to me just as I live life normally.

To be honest, I've always admired guys who have such a skill or trade. I know some are inclined to look down on construction guys, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc... but I've always felt a bit of intimidation/admiration for guys who know how to work with their hands. Probably this is because I don't have such a skill and I'd like to grow in this area.

All that said - do you think it would be worth the time/money to learn a trade? I'd love to find something that I could learn fairly quickly so that I could have a year or so to actually work in the field and earn some money before heading to seminary in 2016. Is that at all realistic or would I have to do a 2-4 year apprenticeship in something? I'd love to do something like carpentry, or auto mechanics, but I did come across these certifications courses that seem to be quicker options: Air Conditioning Technology, COC - WATC and Automotive Transmissions/Transaxle, COC - WATC

Any thoughts?

I wouldn't rule out "white collar" trades. Real estate sales (or any sales for that matter), EMT, nursing, and so forth are all jobs that are plentiful and force you to work "with your hands." Just a thought.
 
Ben,

I hardly ever get any feedback when I suggest this, but I'll give it a shot again anyway.

Another option to consider would be to become a reserve Air Force Chaplain. I say Air Force, because their program seems to be the most enticing, although you could consider chaplaincy in other branches of the Armed Forces. More information is available at this link:

http://www.afrc.af.mil/library/chaplain/howtojoin/candidate/index.asp

Some key benefits? $4500 annual tuition reimbursement after training, 2nd LT pay and benefits and diverse ministry training opportunities.

I know that some people are concerned about the ecumenical nature of chaplains and how that affects their ability to take a stand for the gospel. However, those are challenges that are being faced even by those outside of military service. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. I have over 16 years of military service, I'm currently on active duty with the Navy, and I've encountered and associated with Chaplains of all stripes. Just my :2cents: Take it for what it's worth...

In Him,

Craig

Thanks Craig, unfortunately I don't meet all the requirements as I haven't finished my college degree and I'm graduating from an unaccredited school anyways. Thanks for your faithful ministry and service. :)
 
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