Should laymen preach the word on the street?

[Jimmy the Greek]

I think Baptists tend to have a less restrictive view than Presbyterians.

1689 LBCF XXVI:11. Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.

 

[LadyFlynt]

What if we change the name of the event from "street preaching" to "lay witness" or "Street witnessing."

If a man stands up in a street and preaches the gospel this is street preaching. If a man walked upto a passer by and handed out a tract and engaged in a comversation, that is witnessing. The laity can do the latter not the former.

I believe this is why Tom stated that it's a misnomer. Here when "street preaching" is mentioned, it is typically the latter...going out and talking with people, giving away tracts or Bibles, finding out their physical needs and providing some basics for them and giving comfort, and when possible directing them to a Bible believing church. I've never met a "street preacher" yet that has stood on the corner and preached.

 

[AV1611]

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

If he has a gift then he should seek ordination and become a presbyter.

 

[Davidius]

Could you please site scripture to support your position?

The point is rather simple, only those who have the gift of preaching should preach. Now do all have this gift? No, therefore not all should preach. Those who have the gift should be equiped and called by God. This is recognised by the Church and so these men are ordained and sent to preach. The only office of the Church that has the authority to preach is the pastor, therefore it is wrong for a lay person to preach the gospel.

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?" (1 Corinthians 12:29)

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11, 12)

"And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" (2 Timothy 2:2).

An overseer must hold "fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers" (Titus 1:9)

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

Yes, and he's perfectly right to do so. If he had the gift to preach, he'd be a preacher, wouldn't he?

 

[tcalbrecht]

I like the way Calvin puts it. Any person might be a witness, but ministers have been 'commissioned' and are therefore 'ambassadors'. That seems to be what Paul is saying because he makes the distinction between 'you' (the Corinthians) and 'us' (Gospel minsiters).

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation;

The message of Paul seems pretty clear: We have all been reconciled to God therefore we all are given the ministry of reconciliation. The language is inclusive, not exclusive, referring to Paul and his readers. With all due respect to Messrs Calvin and Henry, I don’t see how you can get an "us/you" distinction from reading the entire passage.

While it possible for there to be particular aspects of the ministry of reconciliation that are unique to gospel ministers, you won’t find that emphasis here.

 

[reformedcop]

Shouldn't a distiction be drawn between "Street Preacher" a layman who is proclaiming the gospel loudly on a street corner and a teaching elder who has the responsibility of the well being and feeding of his flock?

The street preacher is addressing mostly unbelievers; while the teaching elder is expositing the Scriptures to his flock.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

What dost thou think of John Bunyan?

Should the tinker have been stopped and warned that he was not a Preacher? J

ohn Owen sure thought he was gifted in Preaching.

*bump*

I have heard some preachers that are ordained who should never preach. They would bore bark on a tree to death.

And I have heard some young men in Baptist churches through the years who are not ordained but were wonderfully gifted and right on.



Again, What think ye of our old Puritan Bunyan?

 

[KMK]

What dost thou think of John Bunyan?

Should the tinker have been stopped and warned that he was not a Preacher? J

ohn Owen sure thought he was gifted in Preaching.

*bump*

I have heard some preachers that are ordained who should never preach. They would bore bark on a tree to death.

And I have heard some young men in Baptist churches through the years who are not ordained but were wonderfully gifted and right on.



Again, What think ye of our old Puritan Bunyan?

I think we are discussing what is 'ordinary'. I am not sure about the circumstances of Bunyan's situation but it is possible that God had him doing exactly what He wanted. Same with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. Ordinarily their ministry should be under the authority of a church but I no that we don't live in ordinary times.

 

[AV1611]

I have heard some preachers that are ordained who should never preach.

I have heard some men who have been ordained who did not possess the gift required.

And I have heard some young men in Baptist churches through the years who are not ordained but were wonderfully gifted

I am sure you have. All that would mean is that they should seek ordination.

Again, What think ye of our old Puritan Bunyan?

I do not know much about him, other than to say he is not above being wrong.

 

[AV1611]

Shouldn't a distiction be drawn between "Street Preacher" a layman who is proclaiming the gospel loudly on a street corner and a teaching elder who has the responsibility of the well being and feeding of his flock?

There should be no distinction, the minister of the gospel is to do both whilst the lay person is to do neither.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

If he has a gift then he should seek ordination and become a presbyter.

OK. I'll go along with that.

My view is that not everyone is called in to full time ministry. Perhaps I am being tripped up on terminology. I know of many men who are Lay-Preachers. Admittedly, most are not Reformed...

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

The point is rather simple, only those who have the gift of preaching should preach. Now do all have this gift? No, therefore not all should preach. Those who have the gift should be equiped and called by God. This is recognised by the Church and so these men are ordained and sent to preach. The only office of the Church that has the authority to preach is the pastor, therefore it is wrong for a lay person to preach the gospel.

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?" (1 Corinthians 12:29)

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11, 12)

"And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" (2 Timothy 2:2).

An overseer must hold "fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers" (Titus 1:9)

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

Yes, and he's perfectly right to do so. If he had the gift to preach, he'd be a preacher, wouldn't he?

How about a Lay-Preacher? These guys have jobs and don't do full time ministry for whatever reason.

 

[timmopussycat]

Exceptional men are not the rule.

Nor is the antithesis quite so profound as some would make it. There are cases of men with preaching gifts yet lacking pastoral skills and even in Presbyterian circles I believe some denoms recognize the office of evangelist as one who does street preaching although not ordained to a church. Brownlow North was one such example.

 

[Herald]

and seminary trained to preach the gospel

Excuse me. Where do I find that requirement in the scriptures?

*bump*

 

[KMK]

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

If he has a gift then he should seek ordination and become a presbyter.

OK. I'll go along with that.

My view is that not everyone is called in to full time ministry. Perhaps I am being tripped up on terminology. I know of many men who are Lay-Preachers. Admittedly, most are not Reformed...

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

Yes, and he's perfectly right to do so. If he had the gift to preach, he'd be a preacher, wouldn't he?

How about a Lay-Preacher? These guys have jobs and don't do full time ministry for whatever reason.

I think you both need to define what you mean by 'lay preacher'. If the definition of a 'lay preacher' is that they are not called to 'full-time ministry' then I am a 'lay preacher' because I am not a full-time pastor. Or does 'lay preacher' mean someone who is asked by a church to preach but has not been formally ordained? If so, then the fact that a church has asked the man to preach is kind of an informal 'ordination' if only for a limited time. This man is still under the 'covering' of a church so to speak.

 

[KMK]

and seminary trained to preach the gospel

Excuse me. Where do I find that requirement in the scriptures?

*bump*

And, if I may add to Bill's question, what is a 'seminary'? Are all seminaries qualified to train preachers? If not, what are the criteria?

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

When I speak of a Lay-Preacher, I mean someone who has a fulltime living outside of the church and preaches in whatever role the Lord calls him to.

 

[reformedcop]

Shouldn't a distiction be drawn between "Street Preacher" a layman who is proclaiming the gospel loudly on a street corner and a teaching elder who has the responsibility of the well being and feeding of his flock?

There should be no distinction, the minister of the gospel is to do both whilst the lay person is to do neither.

In your opinion ... where is the line between one to one witnessing to unbelievers and preaching? If there is a group of three that a lay person is witnessing to ... is that preaching?

 

[KMK]

So, you assume that a layman cannot have the gift to preach?

Yes, and he's perfectly right to do so. If he had the gift to preach, he'd be a preacher, wouldn't he?

How about a Lay-Preacher? These guys have jobs and don't do full time ministry for whatever reason.

When I speak of a Lay-Preacher, I mean someone who has a fulltime living outside of the church and preaches in whatever role the Lord calls him to.

In my case (and in many others) I have a 'fulltime living outside the church' and am also the Pastor of a church. Certainly it is not ideal, but I don't consider myself to be a 'lay preacher'.

Are you asking if it is possible for God to gift and to send a preacher without also providing a full time Pastorate? Then the answer is yes. Even Paul had to make a living outside the church.

 

[Amazing Grace]

Thus there is a case of extra-ecclesiastical preaching, not just bringing people into the church that already exists, but being used by God to birth the church to begin with.


Your definition above ignores church planting.

Exactly Pergy. This is the result of the error that man must look from the kingdom to the church(building). We have had it backwards for many many years. Our focus should be Go and teach, then have the Holy Spirit direct them to wherever He sees fit. We have spent too much time "churching" people then teaching them. God adds to the church not man.

 

[Amazing Grace]

and seminary trained to preach the gospel

Excuse me. Where do I find that requirement in the scriptures?

You dont....

 

[Amazing Grace]

Exceptional men are not the rule.

I totally disagree with this sentiment Joshua. This is the crux of the Grace of God throughout the writ. To take uneducated, vile, sinful, hated people and then give them a gift happens all the time.

Remember God does not choose the qualified, but he most certainly qualifies those He chooses.

Read this please:

MYSTERY BABYLON DENOMINATION
FOREIGN MISSIONS BOARD

To: Rev. Saul Paul
First Christian Church
Antioch, Syria

Dear Mr. Paul:

I have your application for missionary appointment before me, and will be as frank as possible concerning your qualifications as a foreign missionary. We have to be very careful in choosing our missionaries, and our Missions Board has reviewed your case thoroughly. We have decided that it would be unwise to send you to the foreign field for the following reasons:

1. It has come to our attention that you are doing secular work on the side. We do not feel that making tents and full time ministry go together very well. [1Th 2:9] It seems that you do not have enough experience in trusting the Lord for your income. You should make up your mind whether you want to preach or continue your profession.

2. Your previous actions have been very rash and unseemly for a minister. We learned that in a public meeting you opposed Dr. Simon Peter, an esteemed minister with a high reputation. [Ga 2:11-14] We also hear that you refused to compromise with other ministers such that a special council meeting had to be called in Jerusalem to prevent a serious split in the churches. [Ac 15:1-30] We frown on putting ideology before people. For your own good, I am enclosing a copy of Daius' Carnegus book on "How to Win Jews and Influence Greeks." [Ga 1:10, 1Th 2:4-6]

3. You have conflicted with mature Jewish brethren in nearly every city you have visited who simply want to encourage the converted Pagans to be properly circumcised. Mr. Paul, you must know that these men are our most learned sages with a deep sense of the roots and history of our faith. As well, and more importantly, these men control the synagogues you could be ministering in if you would simply tone down your dialog into a more friendly and respectful exchange. [Gal 5:2-12]

4. In checking back, we discovered your Christian education consisted of a three year course in Arabia. [Ga 1:15-20] We find that the Arabian school has not been approved by our accreditation board.

5. Further, you admit to being an unskilled public speaker. [2Co 10:10, 11:6] Paul, surely you must know that people expect fine elocution from men of God, and that as a denomination we stand for the highest levels of excellence in the pulpit. Yet instead of going to much-needed oratory classes you spend your time making tents instead. From your correspondence, you also appear to be spending a considerable amount of time writing letters to insignificant little "churches" that meet in homes. [Ac 28:3-6] Honestly now; do you really think that such misguided activities are what will lead to your success in the world of religion? We strongly suggest that you put down your tools and set aside your pen, and instead practice hand gestures, facial expressions, and voice modulation in front of a mirror for several hours a day until you come up to par.

6. It has come to the attention also that you often emphasize "the power of God" and "the gifts of the Spirit." [1Co 2:3-5, 12:1-7] Also that you speak in tongues a great deal. [1Co 14:18] Surely you realize that such as this only drives off the better class of people, and attracts only the riff-raff. It would be better to tone down those more sensational forms of worship. You sound as though you are "off the deep end." [1Co 3:18]

7. It has been proven to our satisfaction that you had hands laid on you at Antioch with prophecy going forth, [Ac 13:1-3] with none of the Apostles or Headquarters brethren present to conduct this ordination service in the prescribed manner.( i love this one)

8. We see here that you have a jail record in several places. [2Co 11:23-27] If this is true, it puts you in a bad light, for our denomination has always stood for a high standard of civic responsibility. I fear it would damage our reputation to have someone representing us that had served time in jails and prisons. Frankly, Mr. Paul, we seriously doubt you could have been innocent and the judge wrong in so many cases. It just doesn't look right.

9. It seems that you are a troublemaker, Mr. Paul. Several business men of Ephesus have written us that you were the cause of severe loss of business to them and even stirred mob violence. You must learn to cultivate the friendship and influence of men such as these. [Ac 16:16-22]

10. We also have some details of a shameful "over the wall in a basket" episode at Damascus, [2Co 11:30-33] plus a stoning at Lystra, and several other violent actions taken against your ministry. [2Ti 3:11] Haven't you ever suspected that conciliatory behavior and gentler words might gain you more friends?

11. We have learned through channels that following some trouble with a preacher on the island of Cyprus, you began to allow yourself to be known by the Gentile pronunciation of your name rather than the proper Hebrew. [Ac 13:4-11] Yet another conflict, and then a name change. This does not seem to us to be conduct becoming to the ministry.

12. You admitted in your application that in the past you neglected such needy fields as Bithynia, just because "the Spirit didn't lead that way," and that you undertook a hazardous journey on the strength of a dream you had at Troas. [Ac 16:6-10] Mr. Paul, surely you don't expect us to go along with such flimsy and fantastic excuses for your seemingly purposeless wanderings.

13. Many times you did not stay long enough, in our opinion, to get a church properly established. You left your converts many times without even a pastor to guide them, and without setting the church in order in some good hierarchical denomination. [Ts 1:5]

14. We hear also from Troas that you preach too long, one sermon lasting almost twenty-four hours, even to the extent that a young man fell asleep and was seriously injured. [Ac 20:7-12] We understand that you claim to have restored his life and raised him from the dead by falling on him and embracing him. What nonsense! We need practical men in the ministry, Mr. Paul, not high strung emotional radicals. Our advice is for you to shorten your sermons considerably. We find that about twenty minutes is the longest a minister can hold the attention of his audience these days. Our motto is "Stand up, speak up, and shut up."

15. It is reported from your home church that you could not get along with your fellow ministers; that John Mark--a commendable young man and nephew of one of our highest leaders--had to leave your party in the middle of a journey; and that you had a sharp quarrel with gentle, good natured Barnabas. [Ac 15:36-40] Now these men are well thought of in Jerusalem and we wonder why you are always having trouble with your fellow workers?

16. We have notarized affidavits from four very popular and influential preachers: Diotrephes, Demas, Hymenaeus, and Alexander; to the effect that it is impossible for them to cooperate with either you or your program. [1Ti 1:20]

17. From what we hear, you seem to think that you have some direct sanction from on-high, boasting about your revelations and that God has chosen you to reveal some "Mystery". [Ep 3:3-4] Can't you realize that any truth that is to be revealed would come through Headquarters to the recognized, established brethren, and that after it had been checked by our Procedure and Doctrine Committee that we would distribute it on to the field workers?

18. Finally, we hear that you claim to be an Apostle. We know nothing of this being passed upon by the proper authoritative channels and wonder how you could back that claim up, when the last Apostle was voted into office right here in Jerusalem. [Ac 1:26] Now that our denomination is firmly established, why do you imagine there would be any need for God to continue the Apostolic gifting?

As you see, Mr. Paul, we feel definitely after close scrutiny of your case, that you are undoubtedly the most unqualified applicant we have ever seen, and my advice for you is to find a church where you can work in harmony, and use your past education as perhaps a Sunday School teacher.

I hope I have prevented you from making a terrible mistake in your life.

Most sincerely yours,

J. Flavios Fluphehead, SECY


All who are called of God can preach, teach, evangelize anywhere and anyplace the Holy Spirit deems necessary. No letters after their name are needed.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do not think "laymen" have to present a three point sermon on the street,or in a public place. However I believe it is sin not to prayerfully seek any and all opportunities to present Christ to a dying world.
As part of that presentation a person could explain the special place that God has given to the word of God ,and how Preacher's are given as gifts to the church. It does not have to be an either ,or , situation.
Explain the christian life, from regeneration and justification, to santification and glorification showing how the word is central to our knowing God and His salvation. Then invite the person to hear the word preached the next Lord's day.

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

LBC 1689, Chpt 26

LBC 1689, Chpt 26

Paragraph 11. Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.

Acts 11:19-21

19 Now those who were scattered after the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to no one but the Jews only. 20 But some of them were men from Cyprus and Cyrene, who, when they had come to Antioch, spoke to the Hellenists, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number believed and turned to the Lord.
NKJV

1 Peter 4:10-11

10 As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV

 

[Yodas_Prodigy]

I think Baptists tend to have a less restrictive view than Presbyterians.

1689 LBCF XXVI:11. Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.

I used this one too. Great Minds think alike!

 

[raekwon]

This has probably been discussed here time and again, but I've gotta say, I find the necessary linkage between "preaching" and ordained office to be artificial and unbiblical. This is one area that I think that the LBCF got it right and the WCF did not.

The power and authority of preaching are not vested in ordination to the office of "minister of Word and Sacrament". The power is from the Spirit of God and the authority is in the Word itself, regardless of whose mouth the message comes from. Now, don't get me wrong. God gifts and calls men to proclaim his Word to and rule his church, and such men are to be ordained to the office of Elder. (It would be foolish of me - an elder - not to believe this!) I understand the desire to protect our pulpits and the preaching office. At the same time, though, these made-up semantic bifurcations between "preaching" and "exhorting", and the unbiblical injunctions against the proclamation of the Word by anyone other than a Teaching Elder are hogwash.

Paul rejoiced in the preaching of Christ, even by those who did so in envy and rivalry. Are we wiser than Paul?

 

[AVT]

Coming from a Reformed denomination, I can understand why we take preaching seriously and why we guard our pulpit . Our denomination examines thoroughly those who preach and teach. Reason #1. We don't want God's word and people's mind polluted by liberalism. #2 We don't want to divide the body of Christ #3. We hold Reformation truths that many
don't hold anymore.(This puts us in the smallest minority but we have the most powerful
truths)...of course I am bias and I believe it's true.

We hold those who preach highly accountable.

But can laymen share the Gospel -of course yes, in words and in deeds. There's no limit to our personal witness as we live as salt and light.

I drilled 20-30 kids on the Gospel and lo and behold, many kids could understand salvation in Christ and forgivenes of sins. Kids in return were trained to share the Gospel story with other kids. I believe that God's word will not return to Him void. Many kids were saved!

It could be argued that seminarians and the "professioanals" in the Reformed faith in the 20th Century did more harm to the pulpit than laymen ever did - liberalism and heresy have usually been from the top-down in recent reformed church history...even among those who were Confessionalistic and all that.

That's why our denomination examines thoroughly graduates of so called "Reformed seminaries". It is not a guarantee that just because they went to a Reformed Seminary that they can preach. Pastors and even teaching elders are thoroughly examined not just by one person but by the Board and by the Presbytery. We know that all men are fallible but we have the best system of screening applicants. It is just the proper thing to do
...and the best way to care for the Body of Christ.

We also have a great system on how to remove someone who has proven
incapable .

 

[KMK]

I think Baptists tend to have a less restrictive view than Presbyterians.

1689 LBCF XXVI:11. Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.

I used this one too. Great Minds think alike!

This has probably been discussed here time and again, but I've gotta say, I find the necessary linkage between "preaching" and ordained office to be artificial and unbiblical. This is one area that I think that the LBCF got it right and the WCF did not.

The power and authority of preaching are not vested in ordination to the office of "minister of Word and Sacrament". The power is from the Spirit of God and the authority is in the Word itself, regardless of whose mouth the message comes from. Now, don't get me wrong. God gifts and calls men to proclaim his Word to and rule his church, and such men are to be ordained to the office of Elder. (It would be foolish of me - an elder - not to believe this!) I understand the desire to protect our pulpits and the preaching office. At the same time, though, these made-up semantic bifurcations between "preaching" and "exhorting", and the unbiblical injunctions against the proclamation of the Word by anyone other than a Teaching Elder are hogwash.

Paul rejoiced in the preaching of Christ, even by those who did so in envy and rivalry. Are we wiser than Paul?

I agree that the LBC is an improvement over the WCF. But I don't think they are that different in this area.

If the LBC read this way: "yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, ..., may and ought to perform it." then I would agree with you.

But the LBC specifically says that those who are 'gifted' and 'fitted' are also "approved and called by the church". Isn't that exactly what ordination is? the stamp of approval by the church that this preacher is 'gifted' and 'fitted' and 'called'?

 

[raekwon]

That's a good point, Ken. I wasn't as careful as I should have been in my reading.

So, now I'll say that I disagree with the LBCF's wording as well . . . approval and calling by the church are good and important. The church is the means by which God calls men to the service of the preaching of the Word. I don't deny that by ANY means. What I deny (like I said earlier) is the idea that the power and authority of preaching come from that ordination. They do not.

 

[KMK]

That's a good point, Ken. I wasn't as careful as I should have been in my reading.

So, now I'll say that I disagree with the LBCF's wording as well . . . approval and calling by the church are good and important. The church is the means by which God calls men to the service of the preaching of the Word. I don't deny that by ANY means. What I deny (like I said earlier) is the idea that the power and authority of preaching come from that ordination. They do not.

I appreciate the candor.

However, if I may be so bold to point out that what you say above is exactly what I think the LBC is getting at: a denial that power comes from the church (because it comes from the HS), but that the church is the vehicle for recognizing who has been empowered with 'calling', 'fitting', and 'gifting'.

For example, when you were ordained, it was not the church vesting you with giftedness, calling, and fitting. Your ordination was in fact the church publically recognizing that you had been gifted, called and fitted by the power of the HS.