Should Seminaries Reinstate Dress Codes?

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I'm probably the last person who should comment on how to dress in seminary (Dr. @Alan D. Strange knows me well enough). I don't come from classy roots, but I find myself more and more wanting to dress nicely for church. In general, I'd like to dress myself to better reflect a care for my appearance. Not that I want to be vain and prideful, but I want to present myself in a more mature manner. My background being what it is, I tend to prefer wearing nice blue jeans (not torn or anything of the like) and a polo shirt. An outfit like that is casual and put together, in my opinion. Slacks with a button down would also be comfortable. When I'm at church, I exclusively wear attire appropriate for the pulpit. I wouldn't be opposed at all to something of dress recommendation for seminary (instead of a code that might burden others).
 
It should also be noted that dressing casually doesn't necessarily mean dressing cheaply. People spend lots of money on replica football jerseys, for example, and other items of casual dress. And yet trousers and a shirt- which can be bought quite cheaply- are somehow "exclusive" and place "burdens" on people. It seems spending lots of money on clothes is fine so long as one looks like a slob whilst wearing them.
 
Of course, but more importantly I think it’s rather important that people dress formally in church. When asserting this, the inevitable “why” is almost always asked.

The reason is as follows; in Western society it is the custom to show respect to people and/ or an event by dressing nicely. We see this in courtrooms, weddings, funerals and so forth. When we approach God in corporate worship, how much more important is it to show reverence than those other events?

I firmly believe that how we dress says a lot about how we feel about God.
 
Of course, but more importantly I think it’s rather important that people dress formally in church. When asserting this, the inevitable “why” is almost always asked.

The reason is as follows; in Western society it is the custom to show respect to people and/ or an event by dressing nicely. We see this in courtrooms, weddings, funerals and so forth. When we approach God in corporate worship, how much more important is it to show reverence than those other events?

I firmly believe that how we dress says a lot about how we feel about God.
Right. And this is universal to mankind. Even in remote parts of the world, there is still ceremonial attire setting those occasions apart.

I don't think there needs to be a one-size-fits-all approach to dressing nicely. How people dress for particular occasions will most certainly look different depending on where you are in the globe. In other words, it is appropriately customary for me to wear a suit here in the Midwestern USA. It might be appropriately customary for me to wear leather sandals, an Hawaiian shirt, and slacks elsewhere. The beautiful thing is the common denominator of it all. I want to honor Christ and set this time apart particularly to worship him in Spirit and Truth.
 
Not to detract from the OP. To apply it there, for me, is to recognize the importance of my task as a seminarian. I won't hold it against any who dresses down. God forbid I do; for I would be an hypocrite. As I said, I would probably be one of those people at different times (I tend to wear shorts even when it snows). But I also see myself in state of growth (I hope) and transition.
 
Right. And this is universal to mankind. Even in remote parts of the world, there is still ceremonial attire setting those occasions apart.

I don't think there needs to be a one-size-fits-all approach to dressing nicely. How people dress for particular occasions will most certainly look different depending on where you are in the globe. In other words, it is appropriately customary for me to wear a suit here in the Midwestern USA. It might be appropriately customary for me to wear leather sandals, an Hawaiian shirt, and slacks elsewhere. The beautiful thing is the common denominator of it all. I want to honor Christ and set this time apart particularly to worship him in Spirit and Truth.
Agreed, this actually reminds me of when I was struggling with understanding 1 Corinthians 11 in regard to head coverings. I wasn’t convinced that it was just cultural, as Paul cited creation. After consulting with my Pastor, he walked me through how it was a cultural custom that portrayed a biblical truth; not unlike modern last names and wedding bands (headship and monogamy) or braziers (modesty).

Not meant to derail the thread as I know there’s different opinions on that, but my point is that dressing properly in corporate worship is a modern custom that portrays a biblical truth (reverence and fear) and thus is proper.
 
Ministering in an Australian (Tasmania) context, all I can add is: what a strange discussion! Even when I was a seminary student in Canada back in the 90s, on an ordinary day most students would be wearing a nice clean pair of jeans (blue or black) and a nice clean shirt (whether a t-shirt or one with a collar). The only exception would be on days when we'd lead chapel or giving a sermon proposal. Then it would be suit and tie, or at least dress shirt, dress slacks and a tie.
 
I firmly believe that how we dress says a lot about how we feel about God.
At best, it's only ever a negative indicator, that is to say, manifestly unkempt appearance may indicate a lack of reverence or due sense of God's presence.

That one is what many here would regard as properly attired in itself means nothing. In my decades of ministry not only in the local church but in the broader church, I can assure you that the most egregious impenitents I've encountered were appropriately attired. It's not uncommon, in fact, to find an abusive or adulterous man wearing a suit. I think that this word of caution, and the reminder that God looks on the heart, needs to be remembered in this conversation.

Let me put it this way: my greatest struggle is not dressing appropriately (since @J.L. Allen appealed to me, I'll reference him for this!), but thinking, speaking, and behaving in a godly manner at all times. For me at least, the former is easy, while the latter is the great struggle of my life. Thanks be to God that salvation is all of grace and that we seek to live righteously not so that we will earn his favor but because we already have his favor in Christ.

Peace,
Alan
 
At best, it's only ever a negative indicator, that is to say, manifestly unkempt appearance may indicate a lack of reverence or due sense of God's presence.

That one is what many here would regard as properly attired in itself means nothing. In my decades of ministry not only in the local church but in the broader church, I can assure you that the most egregious impenitents I've encountered were appropriately attired. It's not uncommon, in fact, to find an abusive or adulterous man wearing a suit. I think that this word of caution, and the reminder that God looks on the heart, needs to be remembered in this conversation.

Let me put it this way: my greatest struggle is not dressing appropriately (since @J.L. Allen appealed to me, I'll reference him for this!), but thinking, speaking, and behaving in a godly manner at all times. For me at least, the former is easy, while the latter is the great struggle of my life. Thanks be to God that salvation is all of grace and that we seek to live righteously not so that we will earn his favor but because we already have his favor in Christ.

Peace,
Alan
Certainly I did not mean to infer that dressing properly is an attempt to earn His favor in the salvific sense. The things you listed are of course things we all must strive for, while not neglecting what I had mentioned. If we are cognizant that we are approaching the Living God, in the presence of the angelic host, we are much less likely to be wearing sweatpants, t- shirts, ball caps and so forth.
 
I'm sure such situations could be accommodated. That is not what is being spoken of here. We are talking about one's general attire when on campus. But I would say that many students at regular universities have jobs whilst studying but don't wear their uniforms to class.
Sure it wasn't all the time, but I often sat beside people wearing fast food uniforms or something similar that would go to work immediately after class ended.
 
We expect men to dress seriously to business meetings for lesser matters (and lawyers are expected to dress very seriously)
It's probably rare these days that lawyers would wear a coat and tie except for court or an important meeting with a major client. There may be some "white shoe" law firms that still wear suits and ties in the office.
 
Of course, but more importantly I think it’s rather important that people dress formally in church. When asserting this, the inevitable “why” is almost always asked.

The reason is as follows; in Western society it is the custom to show respect to people and/ or an event by dressing nicely. We see this in courtrooms, weddings, funerals and so forth. When we approach God in corporate worship, how much more important is it to show reverence than those other events?

I firmly believe that how we dress says a lot about how we feel about God.
Exactly! The Puritans and the Anglicans argued about this in the 17th century: the Anglican argument was: "You are going to meet a king; therefore, you cannot freely compose prayers and meet in simple buildings that look like houses - you must be properly attired, and use prepared courtly language and meet in ornate buildings that are fit for a king". The Puritans response was "Yes but that king is my father, so I can come before him simply, with the words I have, in a simple building. Of course, there is a sense that both sides are right, as the Puritans well understood, but I think we're missing an important piece of the Biblical picture here, and it is strange on this Board that it is the Puritan piece! The Puritan pursuit of plainness certainly applies to how we dress for worship, along with other areas.

"Western society" is by no means one culture, even within the US. "Decent attire" is different in Jackson, Mississippi than in Oceanside, CA, which in turn are different from Sioux City, Iowa, so dress that is sensitive to culture is going to vary. And cultures do change over time: no Puritans ever dressed in suits and ties, so that cannot be the only permanent expression of proper church attendance garb. It will take wisdom for us all to dress appropriately to convey a message that doesn't get in the way of the gospel - and, as Alan pointed out, far more important than our attire is our hearts if we want to be found faithful before God.
 
Speaking of lawyers, there are no such standards in law schools, and there weren't a quarter century ago. Maybe one somewhere did have them. But wearing jeans to class was common where I went. I don't remember whether or not I or others wore T-shirts or if I normally wore a polo type shirt with a collar. I'm not totally sure if even all of the profs wore a coat and tie. Maybe they did.

Most lawyers only wear a coat these days when going to court. (Many never go to court.) Maybe they'll put it on when meeting with a "high powered" client who would be dressed that way. As Edward said, maybe there is some "white shoe" corporate firm somewhere (such as Wall Street?) that requires a jacket to be worn in the office, but it is not the norm in most offices. Business casual would be more typical.
 
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I agree with a dress code although I have not been to seminary and I try and dress more formal at church, perhaps it will rub off on some. We have become so casual in our dress and it seems to be the norm. People would never show up to jury duty wearing what they do to church (or they would be sent home), there is more respect for a county judge than The Judge.

I try to always wear a suit and tie when preaching, but there are times when I have not due to heat. When I was in the prison ministry we preached inside a prison with no A/C, in South Texas in the summer (where we are routinely 95-100). I have also not worn a suit coat inside elsewhere when temps were so high (due to poor A/C) that my profuse sweating would have been a great distraction to the congregation (I am not exaggerating).

And I have to comment on that Navy officer who gave the speech at UT. His advice on making the bed every morning is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard, but since he is a SEAL people think it was profound. I guess he needed something for his speech.
 
"Excuse me, uh Mr John Baptist, you should really dress more appropriately around here, be better groomed, don't you think? And stop eating bugs too, we have a canteen you know."
 
For the record, when I preach on Sunday mornings... I'd say 90% of the time I wear a suit sans tie, the other 10% of the time I remove my jacket. This despite my Session having given me permission to go as casual as business casual.
Don’t worry about the 10% as currently, by your avatar photo, it looks like you have a full woolen jacket on your face at all times so I guess your “covered”.

P.S. I like your face jacket
 
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Was his dress out of place for the day? I suppose we can go naked since Isaiah did so. Verses like Ex 20:26 give me the idea that I should have more reverence.
"Excuse me, uh Mr John Baptist, you should really dress more appropriately around here, be better groomed, don't you think? And stop eating bugs too, we have a canteen you know."
 
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I agree with a dress code although I have not been to seminary and I try and dress more formal at church, perhaps it will rub off on some. We have become so casual in our dress and it seems to be the norm. People would never show up to jury duty wearing what they do to church (or they would be sent home), there is more respect for a county judge than The Judge.

I try to always wear a suit and tie when preaching, but there are times when I have not due to heat. When I was in the prison ministry we preached inside a prison with no A/C, in South Texas in the summer (where we are routinely 95-100). I have also not worn a suit coat inside elsewhere when temps were so high (due to poor A/C) that my profuse sweating would have been a great distraction to the congregation (I am not exaggerating).

And I have to comment on that Navy officer who gave the speech at UT. His advice on making the bed every morning is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard, but since he is a SEAL people think it was profound. I guess he needed something for his speech.
Do you mean to say that people wear suits and ties and fairly formal dresses to jury duty there? (Most men probably do not own a suit these days.) Or are you saying that the situation is so degraded in the churches that people are wearing tank tops and cut off shorts and "wife beater" undershirts or whatever? (That's the kind of stuff that's banned for jury duty.) Around here, people pretty much dress the same way for church as they would for jury duty. Those who wear a coat and tie to church typically would not wear that to jury duty.
 
Do you mean to say that people wear suits and ties and fairly formal dresses to jury duty there? (Most men probably do not own a suit these days.) Or are you saying that the situation is so degraded in the churches that people are wearing tank tops and cut off shorts and "wife beater" undershirts or whatever? (That's the kind of stuff that's banned for jury duty.) Around here, people pretty much dress the same way for church as they would for jury duty. Those who wear a coat and tie to church typically would not wear that to jury duty.
There are stricter requirements for jury duty, no shorts, no flip flops etc (yep, and that’s common in church). No suit requirements yet though for jury duty.
 
There are stricter requirements for jury duty, no shorts, no flip flops etc (yep, and that’s common in church). No suit requirements yet though for jury duty.
That's not typical attire for church here (at least not in most Baptist or Reformed churches) but it may be in some of the charismatic megachurches with the "come as you are" ethos. Do people wear shorts and flip flops to your Reformed Baptist church?
 
@bookslover

Richard,

From a quick search, it appears that Master's requires "dress shoes, slacks, and shirt, with a tie." So not suits and not even a jacket (a tie without a jacket is a sartorial faux pas, Congressman Jordan notwithstanding!). That is more, however, than I am aware of elsewhere.

Our seminary does not have an explicit statement of dress like that but rather expects one to be modestly attired and students customarily wear jackets and ties when exhorting in class or chapel. Is this simply curiosity on your part or do you think that some sort of dress code like Master's should be implemented? If so, what is your rationale, particularly in light of what Iain says?

Peace,
Alan

Hi, Alan: This is simply curiosity on my part. I don't have a dog in this fight one way or another. I seem to remember that Talbot Seminary had a suit-and-tie dress code that may have gone back to its founding in 1952, which seems to have faded away by the late '70s. As for Master's, I'm out there on campus frequently (as a haunter of the bookstore [lots of Puritan stuff!] and library) and I see students in full suits all the time (a case of dressing more strictly than the dress code?).

This topic got started because someone posed this question in my Twitter feed. Although the question didn't get a definitive answer, there were lots of stories shared about quirks in dress and attitudes about dress among the participants. One person even shared a story about how the late Morton Smith once marked a student preacher down because he wore a red tie when he preached!

I don't like suits, myself. Yes, they look great on the right person (Cary Grant for the win!), but I just felt constricted on the rare occasions when I wore one. Plus, being fat (no getting around it), I sweat like a pig whenever I wear one. (Do pigs sweat?) I'll be 70 in less than 4 months, and I still don't know how to tie a tie!

As I said, it's just curiosity on my part. By the way, we do have one guy in our church, aside from the pastor, who regularly wears a suit to church. He is, of course, of Dutch extraction. . .
 
I'm no historian but I always presumed that the Americans inherited the suit coat from the British. That sort of thing makes good sense in the U.K. where the weather would encourage a bit heavier clothing. It makes much less sense in the southern part of the United States where a typical summer high temperature is likely to be in the mid 90's. I have no problem with dressing so as not to offend local customs, but I do think that some consideration should be given to practical concerns, such as the cost of a suit, the normally impoverished state of seminary students, long walks to and from parking lots in the summer, and that sort of thing.

What I am adamantly opposed to is a rule such as that imposed upon me as a midshipmen in an ROTC program at the University of Minnesota. We were required to wear a Navy uniform in the dead of winter. The white cap worn as part of the dress uniform does not cover one's ears and we had midshipmen suffer frostbite walking to and from classes in temperatures down to -30 degrees. I'm all for teaching future officers how to wear a uniform, but requiring them to dress inadequately in sub-zero temperatures is patently absurd and only fosters rule-breaking, resentment, cynicism, and lack of respect for leadership.

Perhaps because of my experience in the military, I am opposed by nature to rules. Those directly tied to the moral law of God are one thing, but those beholden to bureaucratic whims, changing social norms and so forth are another. It has been my experience that an unspoken policy that people should dress appropriately is generally sufficient and that dress codes are normally adopted as a last resort to deal with people who lack commons sense or common decency.

Not only that, but once imposed, a dress code is just one more thing that those in leadership positions are required to enforce and, inevitably, the enforcement varies from leader to leader, from subordinate to subordinate, from day to day, from year to year, etc. The fewer the rules the better.

I would advise establishing a culture that encourages people to dress appropriately and trust people to do the right thing. The rare person who cannot catch on or refuses to do so should be counseled on a one to one basis.
 
Wearing a tie and jacket has never been an issue for me (there are those who figure that I wear such to mow the lawn!). BTW, if you're going to dress properly in this fashion, Alexander (@alexandermsmith), it is not indifferent whether one wears a jacket or blazer (or a suit) with a tie, even as it is sad to see someone beguiled by the myth of the "short-sleeved dress shirt" (especially with a jacket!).
Though I am a gentile by birth, I must come to the defense of the Dutch Reformed, for many of whom a short-sleeved shirt and tie is the standard summer uniform for worship, especially in churches that have thus far resisted the modern convenience of air conditioning.

During my first summer in a Reformed church, I was reminded of how my own impious upbringing contrasted with most of those in the congregation, when my remark about all the men "looking like Sipowicz" was met with blank stares.
 
Dressing appropriately for class is an act of self-discipline that expresses respect for the subject matter. It thus fosters learning in oneself and classmates and encourages the teacher (that would be me).
 
At best, it's only ever a negative indicator, that is to say, manifestly unkempt appearance may indicate a lack of reverence or due sense of God's presence.

That one is what many here would regard as properly attired in itself means nothing. In my decades of ministry not only in the local church but in the broader church, I can assure you that the most egregious impenitents I've encountered were appropriately attired. It's not uncommon, in fact, to find an abusive or adulterous man wearing a suit. I think that this word of caution, and the reminder that God looks on the heart, needs to be remembered in this conversation.

Let me put it this way: my greatest struggle is not dressing appropriately (since @J.L. Allen appealed to me, I'll reference him for this!), but thinking, speaking, and behaving in a godly manner at all times. For me at least, the former is easy, while the latter is the great struggle of my life. Thanks be to God that salvation is all of grace and that we seek to live righteously not so that we will earn his favor but because we already have his favor in Christ.

Peace,
Alan

Yes God looks to the heart. But as was mentioned earlier, the outside is often a reflection of the inside:

Matthew 7:16: Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Proverbs 27:19: As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man.

In the church today there seems to have been a severing between the heart and the external appearance of the Christian. A man is not just a soul but a soul and a body. The two are so intimately bound together that the disposition of the soul naturally affects the body and the behaviour of the body has an effect on the soul. So how we dress our bodies cannot be separated from the inclinations of the heart. We need only look around us at the vile people we see on our streets today, especially at sodomite parades, for the evidence of this. The manner in which those people dress is a manifestation of the demonic spirit within them. In the past such people may have been restrained by societal norms (or the law, remember that!) to dress in a more acceptable way. But today those restraints are no longer there and they dress in a way which most expresses what is inside them.

Dress is one indicator of a person's character. Of course hypocrites and wicked people can dress smartly. But what has that got to do with the positive dimension of how we present ourselves? You seem to make a distinction between how one dresses and how one speaks (you mention struggling to speak in a godly manner). Many hypocrites never swear. Should one conclude, therefore, that refraining from swearing only has a negative dimension? That there is no positive in refraining from profane language? Or that it's ok to swear because God looks on the heart? Of course not. I would hope no one on this forum would question the claim that one's language flows directly from one's heart. Why not how one dresses? One consciously chooses what clothes to put on. How can it be an indifferent matter?

Exactly! The Puritans and the Anglicans argued about this in the 17th century: the Anglican argument was: "You are going to meet a king; therefore, you cannot freely compose prayers and meet in simple buildings that look like houses - you must be properly attired, and use prepared courtly language and meet in ornate buildings that are fit for a king". The Puritans response was "Yes but that king is my father, so I can come before him simply, with the words I have, in a simple building. Of course, there is a sense that both sides are right, as the Puritans well understood, but I think we're missing an important piece of the Biblical picture here, and it is strange on this Board that it is the Puritan piece! The Puritan pursuit of plainness certainly applies to how we dress for worship, along with other areas.

"Western society" is by no means one culture, even within the US. "Decent attire" is different in Jackson, Mississippi than in Oceanside, CA, which in turn are different from Sioux City, Iowa, so dress that is sensitive to culture is going to vary. And cultures do change over time: no Puritans ever dressed in suits and ties, so that cannot be the only permanent expression of proper church attendance garb. It will take wisdom for us all to dress appropriately to convey a message that doesn't get in the way of the gospel - and, as Alan pointed out, far more important than our attire is our hearts if we want to be found faithful before God.

You seem to be conflating smart and sober dress with ostentatious or elaborate dress, which no one who has argued for a dress code has done. Indeed casual dress is often more conspicuous than smart/formal attire. The above Anglican argument is very strange. The King (God) has appointed where we shall meet Him: in the means of grace, on the mountain of ordinances, in the assembly of the saints. God has not required us to worship Him in ornamental palaces but He has commanded us to approach Him with reverence and godly fear and to reverence His sanctuary (whatever or wherever it may be). The Puritans rejected the ornamental Anglican approach but I'm sure they were also in favour of sober and smart attire.

It must be stressed that smart/formal attire does not need to be: expensive, ornate, elaborate, made from fine materials &c. A poor man's clothes may be the worse for wear but that does not detract from his desire to dress his best when going before God. And of course it goes without saying that this is not about justifying oneself. That is such a ridiculous notion that it shouldn't even need to be mentioned (but it is often brought against those of us who argue in favour of a certain standard of dress). Any work, any action, can become a snare to the Christian. If we were to avoid all things which could become such we would eschew godliness altogether. But we don't tell someone to break the seventh commandment lest his attempts to keep it lead him to believe his doing so is the ground for his justification.
 
Dressing appropriately for class is an act of self-discipline that expresses respect for the subject matter. It thus fosters learning in oneself and classmates and encourages the teacher (that would be me).
This is of course true. But the question is precisely "What is appropriate attire for a seminary class?" We have had lots of opinions that make it sound as if people think seminaries are full of students with sagging trousers and offensive T-shirts, or that unless you are dressed in a coat and tie you aren't serious about your subject. Meanwhile, Alan and I - I think the only two seminary professors so far in this discussion - have both stated that in our combined forty or so years of seminary teaching we have never found this to be an issue, despite not having a dress code. It is not as if MARS, WSCAL and WTS are "unserious" seminaries, yet the students manage to show up to class faithfully, wearing a variety of appropriate attire, eager to learn. So where is the problem that we need a dress code to fix? Frankly, there are far more pressing concerns that I have for the theological and spiritual health of my students than their sins against fashion -whether contemporary fashion or the fashions of a previous time. I'd rather talk to my students about being gracious and kind to one another, and to those with whom we disagree theologically, which I see as a more pressing issue in our communities.
 
Was his dress out of place for the day? I suppose we can go naked since Isaiah did so. Verses like Ex 20:26 give me the idea that I should have more reverence.
I said it in jest.
But I will say to go beyond the Scriptural mandate of dressing modestly, especially in judging others in regard to what they wear, is dangerous. And I think it's been shown already that dressing in a certain way (beyond modesty) means nothing by the way of spirituality, and the Lord looks on the heart.

By all means, dress smartly. I like dressing smartly. But who are you trying to impress by mandating dress codes in seminaries? Seminarians should be godly, self-conscious, well-informed Christians. If they need a dress code, what kind of people are being let into seminaries in the first place? Is this actually an issue in seminaries?

(P.S. the idea that a trend of wearing shirt and jacket without a tie is to be avoided just because it's a trend of today is absurd to me.)
 
Dress codes often include grooming standards in many seminaries and bible schools. I also oppose these.

The first day I went to my 1-year of awful bible college (I could write a book on that experience), the president approached me about my beard. He said no beards allowed. So I told him he wouldn't let Jesus or Spurgeon into this school (their online program was called the Spurgeon school).

This is ironic as this meme about Catholic schools.
294521224_449275007211993_3622360198793536912_n.jpg
 
Dress codes often include grooming standards in many seminaries and bible schools. I also oppose these.

The first day I went to my 1-year of awful bible college (I could write a book on that experience), the president approached me about my beard. He said no beards allowed. So I told him he wouldn't let Jesus or Spurgeon into this school (their online program was called the Spurgeon school).

This is ironic as this meme about Catholic schools.
View attachment 9321

I think the problem here is that there were pictures of Christ on the walls.
 
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