Sin deniers

[lifelong_sinner]

Hello all. I am trying to understand something about 1 john 1:8, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

As i read that, i firmly believe that john is saying that no matter what, no matter where we are in our sanctification, we will still sin. Its is unavoidable.

But why then are there those who believe they have perfect self control and that they can stop sinning? Is this an issue of they are deceived, or do they only believe in the 2 commandments Jesus said to do?

Speaking of not sinning anymore, what i wouldnt do to go half a day without sinning. I figure i sin at least twice a day before i ever get out of bed, between my stupid alarm clock and my job. And then theres the morning traffic.

 

[RobertPGH1981]

I always took some of these statements to be a distinction between willful sins, and sins from the heart.

Physically murdering and hating ones neighbor. Coveting desire versus physically stealing. Having ill will towards somebody versus slandering them. Most of these sins are the ones that Paul mentions that those who do such things will not enter the kingdom.

However, double-check this because I haven't studied it out.

 

[83r17h]

But why then are there those who believe they have perfect self control and that they can stop sinning? Is this an issue of they are deceived, or do they only believe in the 2 commandments Jesus said to do?

Sometimes people are merely mistaken, and this is out of non-willful immaturity or ignorance (whether about themselves, the meaning of Scripture, or the extent of law and sin). Sometimes they are prideful and have deceived themselves. Other times they are facing one particular sin which they find themselves unable to fight, but also unable to reconcile with their self-conceived identity. There are various problems which result in various forms of perfectionism.

It's also important not to isolate that verse. There's a series of three oppositions (the chapter division between ch 1 and ch 2 is in an unhelpful spot). Consider (NKJV):

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The overall thrust is that there is only one answer to sin: the work of Christ. And trusting Christ is trusting him with a confession of my guilt before him, knowing that he as a just judge is perfectly justified in condemning me - but yet he has promised to forgive and cleanse me instead. The answer is not my action (my own attempt to deal with sin, ignoring it, doesn't fix it). It is Christ's action.

In each of the three cases, there is an empty profession. It is spoken, only rhetorical, but it is a lie which doesn't match reality. Each empty profession doesn't need (or want) Christ. The first denies Christ as needed for mediating our fellowship with God, the second denies Christ as needed for cleansing our nature and works, and the third denies Christ as needed to pay the penalty and purchase our redemption. But I can't solve any of the three problems (alienation from God, sin in my nature and works, and the penalty for sin) on my own. Christ alone solves them.

The passage doesn't explicitly talk about achieving perfection or not. But it comprehends the topic of perfection as an immediate implication: perfection is not (and cannot be) an achievement. It is only a gift. And, a gift that plainly belongs to the state of glory (1 Cor 15 helps here), not the present. Hence John's later statement that even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our own self-condemnation. But the potential for self-condemnation can't exist if perfection is an element of the present Christian life. So the remaining presence of sin is certainly an implication of this passage, but I don't think the primary focus.

I think this way of arranging the verses also helps easily show how 1 Jn 2:2 is not supporting universal atonement. Rather, it is supporting (as Candlish argues) the exclusivity of Christ as the solution to sin. It shows Christ is the answer, not our work. And Christ is the only answer, for everyone. No one's work contributes to fixing the problem.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

Hello all. I am trying to understand something about 1 john 1:8, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

As i read that, i firmly believe that john is saying that no matter what, no matter where we are in our sanctification, we will still sin. Its is unavoidable.

But why then are there those who believe they have perfect self control and that they can stop sinning? Is this an issue of they are deceived, or do they only believe in the 2 commandments Jesus said to do?

Speaking of not sinning anymore, what i wouldnt do to go half a day without sinning. I figure i sin at least twice a day before i ever get out of bed, between my stupid alarm clock and my job. And then theres the morning traffic.

I've came across some on other christian forums who have claimed they no longer sin, and a friend of mine that I've known for 30+ years a few weeks ago claimed on FB to have not sinned in 20-something years. My wife saw it and told me about. And to think, about 30 years ago I tried my best to date her but she chose another guy. Talk about dodging a bullet.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

But to answer your question @lifelong_sinner

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.[1 John 1:8 NIV]