Soccer/Football question for you Brits

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Tripel

Puritan Board Senior
I don't understand all of the heated argument regarding a British football team at the Olympics next summer. Can someone explain? I get that each of the home nations is proud of their particular country and team, but why all of the opposition to having a joint team for this one Olympics?

For example, if you are Welsh, wouldn't you like to see some of your countrymen competing in a somewhat-major international competition? I don't mean to belittle the Welsh national football team, but they are truly a longshot to make it beyond qualification at any Europa Cup or World Cup. So wouldn't you want a guy like Gareth Bale representing your country on the British Olympic team?

And why is it that the English seem to be in favor of the British team, but the other home nations are furious at the thought? I would think, if anything, it would be the English who are opposed to the idea, since any British team is going to be made up mostly of English players.

Anyone???
 
aaarrrgggghhhh!!!!!!!!!
you don't UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

(and not being a guy, I'm not even into football)
 
It's not what I'd want, so much as what is going to happen.. at least until zebras (or the Toon Army) change their stripes.
Consider the mental trauma going on at this very moment in many an English breast over Andy Murray, the British Wimbledon hope. They don't actually know quite what to hope for,- that he wins, as a Brit? or that he gets his comeuppance, as an obnoxious Scot?
 
It's not what I'd want, so much as what is going to happen.. at least until zebras (or the Toon Army) change their stripes.
Consider the mental trauma going on at this very moment in many an English breast over Andy Murray, the British Wimbledon hope. They don't actually know quite what to hope for,- that he wins, as a Brit? or that he gets his comeuppance, as an obnoxious Scot?

Two questions:

1) Your comment about the Toon Army changing their stripes totally escaped me. Are you referring to Newcastle?

2) Do any of the home nations have an ounce of loyalty or patriotism to the UK? I mean I get that you might hate each other when competing against each other, but what about when competing against the rest of Europe or the world? I just don't get how the English would be anything BUT excited to see Andy Murray have success. I know he's Scottish, but you're all part of the UK.

Yes, I know....I'm an ignorant American.


Edit:
Nevermind about #1. I get it. I now see you were just using a figure of speech.
 
Here's a song that explains it all probably better than I can:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8 (I can't get the link to work)

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

sorry, that last bit looked as if I was posting a link then adding "by the way, it won't actually work"!
That link will work, I meant that the "link" facility wouldn't. I couldn't do it neatly without the URL showing
 
Currently within the United Kingdom there are four countries that can participate in qualifying for the World Cup.(England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales). However in the past there has been pressure put on FIFA by other participating nations that, rather than having four different representatives, there should only be one team (ie) representing the UK.
Should it be decided that a British football team compete at the Olympics in London in 2012, this would strengthen the case of those countries within FIFA who would want the a similar representation to apply and be replicated for the World Cup. Understandably the four nations want to retain their separate identity and participation in the World Cup - hence there is little clamour for a British Football team at the next Olympics.
 
The best solution would be to have an EU team representing all of Europe in the Olympics.
 
....hence there is little clamour for a British Football team at the next Olympics.


Well I find the whole thing silly. Either compete in all competitions as the UK, or compete in all competitions as individual countries.

I get that Scotland is proud to be Scottish and that Wales is proud to be Welsh, but there are worse things than uniting with England and Northern Ireland to compete against the rest of the world.
 
I get that Scotland is proud to be Scottish and that Wales is proud to be Welsh, but there are worse things than uniting with England and Northern Ireland to compete against the rest of the world.
I suppose the differences just go too deep. You have a huge country in which all kind of ethnicities blend more or less happily; but then they've all had to tear themselves at some point away from their homelands, so they're all more or less on the same footing. we have a tiny one in which three or four ethnic and cultural strands, each fiercely married to its own little patch of soil, have been glaring at each other since the Norman Conquest (or in some cases longer). You aren't allowing for the strength of a cultural identity undisturbed for a thousand years. I'm proud to say that on the mainland at least, we no longer go in for actual warfare or even stealing each other's cattle (though the Welsh had a fit of burning down the properties of English landlords a few decades ago). Surely we can indulge in a little harmless partisanship now and then.
Hope you listened to that song I linked. I think it sheds light :)
 
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John is right that this specific issue has nothing to do with whether Scots, Welsh and Irish are content to compete under a Union Jack. The athletes in other sports will do so quite happily. In Rugby, there is no problem with supporting the British (and Irish) Lions which amazingly enough includes northern and southern Ireland. It is true that there is some media ignorance and bias in Britain which irks the non-English. But in the case of football the key issue is continued representation of the four home nations as separate entities in international events. And in sporting terms primary loyalty lies with the individual home nations not the British Isles, even among those who would stauchly oppose independence. Anything that might jeopardize that is (rightly in my opinion) seen as undesirable.

I know that this is not easy for Americans to understand. Perhaps a simple (though very imperfect) analogy would be between a sports fans feelings about his local football team and for the NFC or AFC in the all star game. There is just not the same emotional attachment to the larger entity.
 
Hope you listened to that song I linked. I think it sheds light :)


Yes, I listened to it. I'm sure it's funny to Brits.
All I got from it is that the English think everyone else is screwed up. Maybe that's the point. I didn't quite understand what all they were saying about each country. I probably need to listen again.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

But in the case of football the key issue is continued representation of the four home nations as separate entities in international events. And in sporting terms primary loyalty lies with the individual home nations not the British Isles, even among those who would stauchly oppose independence. Anything that might jeopardize that is (rightly in my opinion) seen as undesirable.


I understand the strong desire to retain the individual home nations in football. What I don't understand is:

A) Why be opposed to a one-time unification for the sake of the Olympics that you happen to be hosting? I know that you would not feel as strong an attachement to such a team, but I would think it would at least be fun to have some of your own footballers in the Olympics for a change.

B) How would unification for the sake of the Olympics jeopardize your standing with FIFA? Hasn't FIFA given its blessing on it? I don't see why FIFA would all of a sudden say "You know, we're going to just scrap all of this history and force you to start competing as a unified British team." Why would FIFA care? I know people theorize that FIFA is anti-English, but even if that were the case, such a change would only result in a stronger team.
 
I should probably add that I'm not questioning the Brits' football loyalties -- rather, just trying to understand. Please be patient with my ignorance!
 
Yes, I listened to it. I'm sure it's funny to Brits.
All I got from it is that the English think everyone else is screwed up. Maybe that's the point. I didn't quite understand what all they were saying about each country. I probably need to listen again.
oh dear. I should have remembered that we have different senses of humour. I hope you got that it was tongue-in-cheek? Just to be clear:
1) That song is actually sending up the English ..not the nations that apparently get a slating in it
2) yes, to many people over here though maybe not all, it's hilarious

---------- Post added at 04:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 PM ----------

...interestingly, Flanders and Swann did tour the US, probably in the 60's sometime, and their humour (which is all in that sort of vein) was very well received indeed
 
oh dear. I should have remembered that we have different senses of humour. I hope you got that it was tongue-in-cheek? Just to be clear:
1) That song is actually sending up the English ..not the nations that apparently get a slating in it
2) yes, to many people over here though maybe not all, it's hilarious


Oh, don't worry. My confusion isn't over the sense of humor. I much enjoy the British sense of humor and am fully aware that the song was tongue-in-cheek. I meant to say that I didn't understand the references they were singing about. I'm not familiar with the various stereotypes you have about each other.
 
I will NEVER support a GB football team. I know if one was to come about there would be 8 English players and one each from Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It would never be called GB or UK but as the English use England as a synonym for Britain it would be called England playing all their games at Wembley. The concern is, as has been stated above, there have been suggestions in the past to have a UK team in FIFA rather than the 4 separate countries. This would be seen as the first step down that road.

What has angered people over yesterday's announcement was that the British Olympic team (which I would and do support in all other areas) management spoke to the English FA giving them management of a GB team and pronounced it as a done deal.
 
No fan of soccer, didn't even watch one game of soccer last year here in SA with the WC, much to boring. The young boy who picked up the soccer ball and started running with it, knew what he was doing (1880's at a place called Rugby, in England, I think). Rugby, now there's some huge battles going on, I really enjoyed the British Irish Tour here in SA in 2009, when our local boy, Morne Steyn, kicked the winning penalty in the second test, from 55 meters out, in the last minute for the Boks, to clinch the series ... "to send the (BIL) homeward to think again!" :banana:

But more important matters: I can indentify with Jenny and other Scots/Welsh/Irish/English, etc. who love their own people's identities and cultures. Part of the problem of many 'modern christian worldviews' is that they sacrifice the 'many' for the 'one', that is to say, because we all Christians (one), therefore the cultural differences and varieties are 'not important', and we all must be 'one' in everything, even language and culture. "UK/GB Olympics" probably means "England" and the Scots/Irish/Welsh must serve 'England's cause' in the Olympic games. I am all for each country and people having their independentism as far as possible, if that is what they want.

Yes, I am a bit favoured towards the Scottish people, but hey, what can one do if they deliver such great bravehearts as William Wallace, John Knox and Eric Liddell !
 
not much to add here.

The other associations fear that co-operation in a GB team will destroy them. FIFA says it won't. But I think they are wise not to trust the corrupt and slimy FIFA.

They have said that their players are free to compete if they want to and I expect that, for example, Gareth Bale will be invited to take part. But the whole management will be by the English FA.

If tiny nations with populations of under 100000 are allowed to be FIFA nations, it seems crazy that the home nations, each with millions, should lose their places.
 
The best solution would be to have an EU team representing all of Europe in the Olympics.

I think we've got enough Euro-disasters already!

But that is the point. European Parliament. European courts having the last say. So the whole UK becomes analogous tp US states. (Should California have an Olympic Team? Texas?) and England, Scotland, Wales, and Ulster become mere subregions. (Should Houston have an Olympic team? It's bigger than Northern Ireland in both population and area,)
 
Edward;

But that is the point. European Parliament. European courts having the last say. So the whole UK becomes analogous tp US states. (Should California have an Olympic Team? Texas?) and England, Scotland, Wales, and Ulster become mere subregions. (Should Houston have an Olympic team? It's bigger than Northern Ireland in both population and area,)

forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what your trying to say, but why should the various countries need to be under England? Why not allow them to have their own teams? The key here is "countries" they are all individual countries..unlike Texas and California (which are states w/in a country already under one flag), it has nothing to do w/ or should have nothing to do w/ population size. Scotland/Ireland/Wales and England are all separate nations why shouldn't they have their own individual team competing?

What about the English Territories will this team also consist of members from the various Territories? Or will they be allowed to have their own teams compete?

Why should the British Territories have more than one team while Ireland, Scotland and Wales (which are not even BT) are forced to combine teams?
 
The best solution would be to have an EU team representing all of Europe in the Olympics.

I think we've got enough Euro-disasters already!

But that is the point. European Parliament. European courts having the last say. So the whole UK becomes analogous tp US states. (Should California have an Olympic Team? Texas?) and England, Scotland, Wales, and Ulster become mere subregions. (Should Houston have an Olympic team? It's bigger than Northern Ireland in both population and area,)

Watched a documentary from Peter Hitchens when he went over the history and problems of the European Union, one of the briefings givin to the British Prime Minister in the early 1970's said that the United Kingdom would be less independent than any U.S. state.
 
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