Something about this picture bothers me.....

Discussion in 'Family Forum' started by Scott Bushey, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    All the concerns about the behavior and stance of women in the church that has been described has its roots in something. Isn’t it possible that when women are put in any role in the church that God hasn’t commanded, the unhappy results are going to be far-reaching?

    Are the women writing the theological books breaking new ground, or is/was there a minister or recognized male theologian writing who has already said these same things? What is it about the theology written by women that makes it particularly desirable? I’m simply asking because I don’t know and haven’t given this any real consideration.
  2. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Also, Rev. Keister, there does seem to be a difference in the women writing these instructional books and Priscilla’s contributions- Priscilla helped with her husband, and in the context of a warm, live local church with the oversight of elders.
  3. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Discussing doctrine is not teaching. :)
  4. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Maybe in that case it comes down to attitude. :)
  5. bookslover

    bookslover Puritan Board Doctor

    I, too, have been ambushed by auto-correct. I think it hates us.
  6. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Maybe, though I respect my TE enough to know what is improper.
  7. Stephen L Smith

    Stephen L Smith Moderator Staff Member

    I am not sure how you reconcile these statements - Rosaria Butterfield often speaks at women's conferences. Would you utilise Rosaria by getting her to speak at an infomal gathering at your church rather than organise a conference?
  8. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I am confident Lane would not say Mrs. Butterfield does not do conferences that specifically target empowering ladies as a sole goal. Though I believe what has happened with her is marvelous, I do know our pastors should not be constrained by the thinking that one cannot discuss this issue unless they used her as a resource.
  9. greenbaggins

    greenbaggins Administrator Staff Member

    There are many ways to utilize her teaching, and her fantastic books. I'm sure a way could be found.

    No, I would not want anyone to feel constrained. Nevertheless, she is the best merely human, fallible resource we have on the issue. I, for one, would want anyone interested in the topic to become familiar with her.
  10. Cedarbay

    Cedarbay Puritan Board Freshman

    I am not a fan of mothers leaving their kids with babysitters, church nurseries, and particularly their husbands to attend women only bible studies.
  11. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    Some husbands are happy to watch the kids to give their wives a break. Doing this for the purpose of them going to a Bible study seems to be a great reason.

    Although naturally the brunt of caring for children falls on mothers, fathers should be careful not to treat their wives as babysitters.
  12. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior


    You use something to the effect of "where is the scriptural warrant" a lot. Certainly we can discuss the merits--good or bad-- about a women's conferences, but I could just as easily ask you "where is the scriptural warrant for a woman discussing theology with men on an online forum?"

    I say this respectfully and don't have any problems with you contributing here.

  13. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    It seems to me that calls for warrant from Scripture are a good thing as long as the call is accompanied by at least some pointers that are viewed by the one making the call to teach the contrary. After all, to call for the warrant(s), one should have something in mind that led to the call in the first place and not leave it to the reader to scramble about in attempts to read another's mind or determine an agenda not made plain.
  14. Cedarbay

    Cedarbay Puritan Board Freshman

    I appreciate your thoughts.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  15. lynnie

    lynnie Puritan Board Senior

    I am glad that I could talk to my children and their friends, especially teens, with some theological structure. The more that women learn sound doctrine the better.
  16. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I am not Jeri but a man named Earl married to a girl named Tina. If I may rephrase the question. Where is a women allowed to teach others in the auspices of the local congregation?
  17. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    I don't see anything wrong with women learning how to teach God's word as long as they're teaching children and sharing with other women. I wouldn't mind a Bible study where some woman shared with us what she learned in this class.....just don't start acting like you're the teacher of me lol.
  18. a mere housewife

    a mere housewife Not your cup of tea

    I was noticing in Luke 24 this evening how the women were the first to learn of Christ's resurrection. They did not receive this pivotal information from the apostles, but learned it from an angel while seeking Christ directly; and were actually able to convey it to the apostles. The reaction is almost a funny touch. They aren't believed -- the angel doesn't appear to tell Peter when he checks out their story; and the men on the Emmaus road repeat their report with skepticism -- until Christ appears to male witnesses. I'm guessing that this didn't cost the women any significant joy in the assurance they'd received; though it did leave the unbelieving men afflicted for a time with sorrow and doubt.

    This is given somewhat greater emphasis in the gospel of John, where 'come and see' is the invitation Christ issues to the first male disciple, and with which that disciple then calls another. It gets taken up by the woman at the well in bearing witness to Christ with her neighbors. It's a clear theme in the book: the very first person to bear the witness 'I have seen', having spoken with Christ in the accomplished fact of the resurrection, is a woman: Mary Magdalene.

    I think this might trace back to the Exodus narrative where the women are specifically invited to spoil their neighbors (Exodus 11). I think you hear the echo in contexts like Psalm 68, where women at home divide the spoil (and some versions, including YLT, put the company of women who publish the word in the feminine). Men in those contexts would suggest an ongoing militaristic endeavor. The presence of the women highlights in a literary way that the victory is so complete.

    Women do have a significant place in bearing witness to Christ. This doesn't mean there is no difference. The women were not in the office of apostle. It rather invests dignity in the difference -- Christ's victory is so complete that the women, the unordained women, could be the first to divide the spoil. A woman's witness bearing to her Creator has been invested by Himself (in His greatest victory) with huge value -- even to ministers. We have a place in which we are directly taught of the Lord, and a witness that is of great joy to the church; and yet it seems that the very dignity preserves the differences between male and female.

    We are all supposed to be teaching one another (Col. 3:16). It's to my own loss if I guard myself against learning from anyone.

    Note: I wrote this off the top of my head, and going back again in my reading to John, realised I needed to be more precise. I'm sorry ...
    Christ invites the first followers toward the end of chapter one with an invitation to 'come and see' (v. 39). The next day he finds Phillip, calling him to follow. Phillip goes and invites Nathaniel with the language 'come and see' (v.46). This 'come and see' language gets echoed through the book to Mary Magdalene's 'I have seen' in 20:18 in her encounter with the risen Christ. -- I love that Jesus' first words in the book are 'What are you seeking'; and after the resurrection his first words are, 'Whom are you seeking?' But the preface to the whole 'seeing' theme that begins with Jesus' first invitation is John the Baptist's prophetic vision -- the last prophet -- in which he 'has seen' the Spirit descending like a dove, and testifies to the identity of Christ (vv.32, 34).
    I love that the first scene with Jesus in the book is of people following (the scene with Andrew and another disciple), and the last scene with Jesus is an only more insistently doubled, emphatically personal call to follow (the scene with Peter). ' You be following me.'
  19. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    Sometimes I get the feeling that the Babylon Bee folks are lurking about our site:


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