Stone-Campbell Movement

[Marcus417]

This hasn't been brought up in a few years, but I am hoping to start a discussion on this movement, and more specifically and how to interact with them because I am having trouble.

I interact with restoration people on a daily basis, but I am they are so offended by anything "systematic theology" sounding especially reformed theology. they also get really offended if you start using what they see as reformed lingo like predestination, election. god's chosen people, regenerating grace, etc.

I was just wondering if anyone had good ideas on how to show them where they err with out explicitly saying their wrong or using systematic theology talk? any ideas welcome or just a discussion of their theology too would be fine.


In Christ Alone,
Marcus

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Marcus,
Is your chief concern love for these people?

It sounds, from what you say, that there's already a lot of "offense" that's interfering with the situation. Those attitudes can be wholly unreasonable, and sometimes there can be some kind of cause.

You say you want to "show them where they err." OK, again, I just want to know why? Do you love them? Alternatively, which is a greater weight on your heart: your concerns over their souls, or the way something askew in their thinking troubles your sense of order?

If you personally might be an agent-of-change that gets through to the heart of one of these people, that will happen if God wills your effectiveness. It won't be because you figured it out, and threw the switch. They need to be given receptive hearts to hear what you have to say.

The Spirit does work by means, and the means may be you and the knowledge you have gained about theology and about communication. Naturally, people will listen much better to a person they are convinced loves them. And just as naturally they turn away from people they perceive as busy-bodies.

Sometimes, with God working on someone's heart, the man will hear a perfect stranger say just the right thing. And a heart is changed. But again, it is usually a situation in which the listener has no reason to suspect the speaker has an ulterior motive, a desire for control over him. Just a free impartation of the truth.

It could be that the way in which you've sought to share your Reformed convictions with people you genuinely care about has failed (in the natural realm) because the people hearing you get the impression that most of all you want to be their teacher, their guide. And they never asked for it. They don't see you as their natural leader.

One way to help yourself is to stop being especially interested in "showing them where they err" or being the change-agent for their minds and hearts. But rather, letting your love for God, for Christ, and divine truth simply express itself faithfully in every situation. Leave the results to God. Love your neighbor, pray for him, practice telling the truth. It really is all you can do.


By the way, if you tell us a little about the theology and the people you are talking to, it could make the board-dialog easier. Most people don't have real clear religious thought, regardless of what church they belong to. People tend to cling to a small number of simple, fixed postulates, which are their religious anchors. Robust, Reformed theology is intimidating. It may threaten to move one of those vital supports, and people can feel like they will lose whatever faith they have, if that thing goes. This is why genuine love is as important as a new pillar or two.

 

[earl40]

I enjoyed what Pastor Bruce wrote. In saying this I can't help remember what Walter Martin said..."How do you tell people they are on there way to hell...nicely? If you figure it out tell me."

One of the hardest things to do is conveying right belief without coming across as judgmental. Most people will think you are judging their salvation when you may be just trying to help them "gain crowns" or avoid the "loss of crowns". I think it is wise to assume they are generally saved unless they prove otherwise.

 

[Marcus417]

Marcus,
Is your chief concern love for these people?

It sounds, from what you say, that there's already a lot of "offense" that's interfering with the situation. Those attitudes can be wholly unreasonable, and sometimes there can be some kind of cause.

You say you want to "show them where they err." OK, again, I just want to know why? Do you love them? Alternatively, which is a greater weight on your heart: your concerns over their souls, or the way something askew in their thinking troubles your sense of order?

If you personally might be an agent-of-change that gets through to the heart of one of these people, that will happen if God wills your effectiveness. It won't be because you figured it out, and threw the switch. They need to be given receptive hearts to hear what you have to say.

The Spirit does work by means, and the means may be you and the knowledge you have gained about theology and about communication. Naturally, people will listen much better to a person they are convinced loves them. And just as naturally they turn away from people they perceive as busy-bodies.

Sometimes, with God working on someone's heart, the man will hear a perfect stranger say just the right thing. And a heart is changed. But again, it is usually a situation in which the listener has no reason to suspect the speaker has an ulterior motive, a desire for control over him. Just a free impartation of the truth.

It could be that the way in which you've sought to share your Reformed convictions with people you genuinely care about has failed (in the natural realm) because the people hearing you get the impression that most of all you want to be their teacher, their guide. And they never asked for it. They don't see you as their natural leader.

One way to help yourself is to stop being especially interested in "showing them where they err" or being the change-agent for their minds and hearts. But rather, letting your love for God, for Christ, and divine truth simply express itself faithfully in every situation. Leave the results to God. Love your neighbor, pray for him, practice telling the truth. It really is all you can do.


By the way, if you tell us a little about the theology and the people you are talking to, it could make the board-dialog easier. Most people don't have real clear religious thought, regardless of what church they belong to. People tend to cling to a small number of simple, fixed postulates, which are their religious anchors. Robust, Reformed theology is intimidating. It may threaten to move one of those vital supports, and people can feel like they will lose whatever faith they have, if that thing goes. This is why genuine love is as important as a new pillar or two.

I definitely should have been more clear about my situation. I am wanting talk with them because they are my friends. I am not trying to win a theological debate, but just speak the truth to them in a way that won't turn them off to it. I have grown to love these people, but they are very hostile to anything that smells like systematic theology

My main problem is a situation like this. They know I am reformed and so they ask me leading questions and when I respond with the typical reformed lingo, and then they accuse me doing theology instead of being Biblical or that I am focusing on Paul instead of Jesus. They say stuff like Jesus would never believe in Calvin's view of predestination.

The Independent Christian Church has a very shallow theology, but while there are some variations within the movement here is the basic soteriology of the people I am dealing with:

1. They do not believe in any form of Original Sin, but in concupiscence or that God creates man with a tilt towards sin (They don't use the concupiscence but that what they believe)
2. Man can chose God without the assistance of grace
3. Man is justified by faith at the moment of immersion baptism
4. God then gives grace from baptism, which helps the Christian maintain their walk with God
5. Surprisingly most of my friends believe in Once Saved Always Saved

Those are the basic beliefs that my friends defend. Any help would be nice.

 

[Wayne]

This sounds like a good opportunity for you to learn to show the Reformed faith directly from the Scriptures, without the theological labels.

jokingly, "Calvin did it, you can too!"