Discussion in 'Spiritual Warfare' started by mattbauer, Oct 18, 2005.

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  1. mattbauer

    mattbauer Puritan Board Freshman

    I had a question. From the catholic point of view i know that suicide is considered well wrong, sinfull etc, and thus people who commit suicide go straight to hell, they do not pass go.

    My grandfather committed suicide almost 2 years ago now at a pretty old age of 72ish i believe... can't remember (We weren't close)

    Just wondering if anybody knows maybe what the bible has to say about this or possibly the traditional reformed thought on suicide.
  2. Saiph

    Saiph Puritan Board Junior

    King Saul basically commited suicide, and he is listed in Hebrews 11.

    Nevermind, I just checked again and he is not.

    [Edited on 10-18-2005 by Saiph]
  3. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Roman Catholicism is Arminian/semi Pelagian to the core; they do not trust in Christ, but their works. Anyone whom dies under this lie will surely perish. I pray your granddad was not trusting in himself or his works to save him; mine did!

    The reformed hold fast the doctrine of Justification by faith alone.

    Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
    Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

    Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
    Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
    Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

    Tit 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
    Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
    Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
  4. VirginiaHuguenot

    VirginiaHuguenot Puritanboard Librarian

    I believe this is incorrect.

    I would recommend reading Samuel Miller's The Guilt, Folly and Sources of Suicide.

    [Edited on 10-19-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
  5. ChristopherPaul

    ChristopherPaul Puritan Board Senior

    Suicide is abominable just as any sin is to a holy God.

    To desire death is not wrong in itself for the Christian. Elijah prayed that he would die knowing that his present state was nothing compared to being in the presence of God. Paul certainly battled with living for the sake of doing Christ's work or just dying and being with the Lord. Samson took his own life, but is mentioned in Hebrews 11.

    The fact of the matter is, suicide is not the unpardonable sin. I would suspect those who do take there own life, but cannot conclude that they are damned because of that act alone.
  6. Anton Bruckner

    Anton Bruckner Puritan Board Professor

    If a person truly believes in Christ, I believe that suicide cannot undo what Christ has done. But I vehemently oppose suicide eventhough I can understand that a person who commits such more than likely was not of a sound mind, but mostly depressed and dejected.

    One of my cousins died and his funeral is saturday. I think he committed suicide eventhough he died of AIDS. I think the natural dejection and depression that came as a consequence of finding out he was suffering this disease threw him into a pit of shame, depression and utter hopelessness, hence he was not motivated to seek treatment, he hid his disease and suffered and died in silence. It's hard to condemn a person who committs an act of suicide under such a state of mind eventhough they can never justify their act of taking their life which God gave them to use for His honor and glory. But this is what I know, that whoever trusts in God, really trusts in God, no matter his slip ups God mercies will preserve eternally. This is what I believe the "Sure Mercies of David" refers to.
  7. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

  8. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate

    What about Samson? :tombstone:
  9. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    While I do not believe suicide is the unpardonalble sin, Samson did pray if it be God's will.
  10. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    I'll have to read that. Looks good.
  11. cupotea

    cupotea Puritan Board Junior

    There's a part of me that wants to agree with your suspicion, but I'd probably go a bit further and conclude that suicides are, indeed, damned. This conclusion comes only after a very long period of prayer and thought, for my mother committed suicide.

    Granted, there MAY be other circumcstances involved, but I cannot help but conclude that suicide is, at least, quite selfish. And I suspect that it is often done to deliberately hurt the survivors.
  12. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    My understanding of the Roman position is this;

    I. Suicide is murder

    II. Murder is a mortal sin; one needs to go to confession and be absolved.

    III. A sucessful suicide cannot do this, as he/she is dead, therefore...

    While I believe, just my opinion, that genuine mental illness can be a mitigating factor, the mood of a suicide is usually anger and rebellion against God's providence and is not what I'd expect of a mature Christian. However, the person may be a Christian who hasn't experienced much sanctification yet...
  13. WrittenFromUtopia

    WrittenFromUtopia Puritan Board Graduate

    Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

  14. Mike

    Mike Puritan Board Freshman

    The Roman Catholics are right and wrong here. They are right that suicide is wrong. It is a sin. Particularly, it is the sin of murder. However, it is not the only sin around! We are all people who sin, and are saved not by not sinning at our death, but rather by the grace of God, through faith.

    If, in a moment of weakness and duress, or whatever the cause, a Christian commits suicide, that doesn't change the fact that he is a Christian, washed in the blood of Christ, and completely secure in His salvation with Christ as his Surety. Our faith, in short, is not in a lack of sin but in the obedience and death of Jesus Christ.

    There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus?

    Now, I'm not saying that suicide is not so serious a sin that it is odd to see it by a Christian. However, it alone (like any sin) does not mean that a person has no hope of salvation: their hope and ours is nothing but the Blood of Jesus.
  15. ChristopherPaul

    ChristopherPaul Puritan Board Senior

    From Foxes Christian Martyrs of the World:

  16. rmwilliamsjr

    rmwilliamsjr Puritan Board Freshman

    it is a big issue for me:

    i think the best essay i found online is Tony Warren's at:

    where he writes:
    btw, thanks for the Samuel Miller link, i keep a page of suicide links and this goes right to the top.

    [Edited on 2-13-2006 by rmwilliamsjr]
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