Synergy 2004??? (women's conf.)

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Chuck,

I do pray at times for a husband but I pray more than anything that I would BE CONTENT with the Lord's will for me - whatever it may be - even if it is singleness. You seem to think that is a curse....I disagree STRONGLY...I don't think that makes me a feminist. But if it does - well perhaps the Lord is pleased with it.

Today, I am wedded to Christ - and I am pleased to be His alone - and to question that, or view it as a curse is discontentment I think.

Perhaps someday he'll give someone "charge" over me - but I pray it will never be a man who would discourage my zeal and longing to learn and be used.

You ask if I am preparing to be the best helpmate I can be - yes I am. I believe that knowing GOD (theology) is THE BEST prep. any woman can do. If you think that something else a wife does for her husband is more important than that, perhaps you might reevaluate your own priorities. I'm not trying to be difficult - just trying to be real here...

about shamefacedness - it is one of the words Paul commands women to be in the passage where he says they should be modest etc. and that they shouldn't teach men. personally I take it to mean that women are not to be aggressive in their actions towards men - ie, flirtatious and forward as men are to be initiators in relationships with women. You seem to disagree since you think I should, as a single woman, seek a man to marry. What would you advise?
 
Karen, I'm an older woman, a believer for 18 years. I love Reformed theology. I'm not married, and my father, who was for all intents and purposes an unbeliever, died in 1984, 2 years before my regeneration. If I relied on any man to teach me, I'd still be an idiot. The one reformed church here is fairly new and VERY small. The Spirit distributes to each one individually as He wills (1cor12:11). That may be why theologians write books, and women can read.

This whole issue has been a problem for me, and the major reason I'm not regularly attending an OPC church at the moment. I don't see a Scriptural warrant for submission to men in general, not even believing men. I should submit to the Lord, and sit at his feet. I should submit to my pastor...and that's why I'm picky about choosing one. I should submit to my husband, if I had one.

Mormon elders regularly make their way to my door. Mostly for spirited debate about theology. If I were to submit to them, they might never hear the gospel. They have my phone number, and they know they won't convert me, but still they like to visit. Strangely, their ideas about women's roles parallel the views I've seen from men in this group.

My question to the elders here is this, "Is it usurping authority for a woman to tell the truth in Christ and quote the Scriptures to a man? If God brings an unbelieving man to my door, am I allowed to present the gospel to him, seeing as how nobody else in my house will do so?"
This goes way beyond a focus outside the home. This is a focus on eternity. I thought that was a good thing!

In the Lamb, Bee
 
1 Cor 7:34 "... And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband." Paul obviously did not view a single woman as cursed, or as not fulfilling her entire purpose in the church.

Kay, I think you are to be very commended for seeking to be content above seeking a husband. One of the ideas that actually is associated with feminism is the idea that a woman is somehow less if she is unmarried. It is still definining a woman by what she is in the world, and not by what she is in Christ. In Christ, you have all things: and you can be content with that. I am sure God will never give you second best, whether that means you remain single or get married. Seeking God's will may mean the exact opposite of seeking a husband. This is what the Christian Romances in the bookstore never tell you! Christ is the hero of our "story"; and sometimes you realise that even more after marrying. (Though I have to add here that I adore my husband, and have to be careful that I don't "enthrone" him too much in my heart, rather than the reverse).

Just a suggestion for something you could do as an unmarried woman with a passion for theology: organize a Bible study with other women & teenage girls. They may love to attend something like that, but not have the time to organize it themselves. See if you can get other women involved in studying and presenting certain parts of the discussion. Even a handful can be such an encouragement to each other.




[Edited on 3-22-2004 by a mere housewife]
 
[quote:ccf2c17d9d]
Just a suggestion for something you could do as an unmarried woman with a passion for theology: organize a Bible study with other women & teenage girls. They may love to attend something like that, but not have the time to organize it themselves. See if you can get other women involved in studying and presenting certain parts of the discussion. Even a handful can be such an encouragement to each other.
[/quote:ccf2c17d9d]

This is an excellent idea! Especially with the teenage girls. Young women (as well as young men) are having their faith challenged everyday and need other experienced women to help them along as mentors.
 
Melissa,

What a neat perspective you have to offer!!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!!

As far as submission...yeh I'm all about submission to father, pastors, husband and whatever males are in leadership over me. However, yeh...the idea of submission to random believing men is an odd one when trying to figure out how that would work practically. I mean we are all to submit to one another in love - but what does that mean/entail? I'm not quite sure...
 
Karen,

Go to the conference, girl. :thumbup: Nobody said you can't BOTH prepare yourself for being a homemaker AND attend an occasional ladies conference. Besides, Carolyn James would be disappointed if you didn't go. :cool:
 
Heidi,

Thanks for your kind words!!!

A friend of mine and myself are hoping to start a "book club" sort of thing at my church where we're hoping to get some ladies together to discuss different theological works. I'm pulling for an abridged version of the Institutes (I'd say the whole thing but I realize that is a daunting task haha). There are some neat women at my church whom I think will have a lot to offer and benefit from something like this! Hopefully some younger women will take an interest and the Lord will increase the hunger in their hearts for Himself!
 
hahaha, Craig - I missed your post I guess b/c I was posting at the same time...yeh I'M SO GOING and I can't wait to meet Mrs. James...SHE ROCKS!

She told you she'd be devastated eh? :smug_b: haha...
 
I suggest you apply your theology to what you love to work at (calling, vocation). "To work is to pray" That is God's will also. So as a single lady. Be a lady (I am sure you are) in all that you do. Apply His word in all that you do. Working for our Lord is not some kind of mission field that a church "lets" you work in. Working for God is your daily life. When you wake up ready to work, not sleep until 12:00 or even 10:00. Take care of your body, it is the Temple of our Lord, eat right, exercise... Keep your living area clean and organized, don't be a slob. God is a god of order. Help your parents out. Help your neighbors out. Make your church beautiful. Go to work with a skip in your walk and a working spirit. Point out or better yet fix injustices in your work place. This takes MUCH theological knowledge. TITHE!

Apply your theology to your hobbies. Learn, write down, draw, paint, music, carve, mold, grow, cook... "for beauty and glory".

These are applications for the kingdom of God. You will meet people through them and spread the meaning of the Lordship of Jesus. studies can be ....blah blah blah.
 
good points halliday - and as Piper says I can even drink orange juice to the glory of God...:yes:
 
This is actually a good topic because womens roles are so goofed up nowadays. In the old days a woman didn't leave the home until she was given to a husband in marriage. So what about today?? Everything is so different. And am I not correct that when a girl is still in the home that her father is responsible to God for her salvation and then her husband is responsible before God for her salvation once she is married?? The man has all this responsibility which is why we as wives are to submit to them. And what do you do when you have a father who is not reformed and is unaware of or not interested in knowing all of the doctrines of the Bible??

Kay I don't know the answer exactly either but the things mentioned on how you could minister like the crisis pregnancy center or nursing homes etc. sound really good.
 
Understanding Submission

One quick note - the role of submission for women is a role for a wife to her own husband. She is not to be submissive in the same sense to anyone else on earth!!

Eph 5:22-24; Col 3:18; 1 Peter 3:1-6

I am currecntly preaching a series of messages on the roles God has designed within the family, and this is a key point to understand. Submission is a willful act of deference by a wife to her husband as the God ordained head of the home. It is not a woman doing whatever any other man tells her to do!

In the first message several weeks ago we dispelled a few myths about submission.

Submission does NOT mean:

1. The husband is the final authority in the home (1 Cor 11:3).
2. The husband makes all decisions alone (Eph 5:21).
3. The wife must do everything her husband tells her (Acts 4:18-20; 5:28-29)

(a) Coercion to Sin - if God says no and the husband says yes
(b) Disobedience to God's Word - if God says yes and the husband says no
(c) Imposition of Physical Harm

4. Submission is demanded by the husband (this defeats the very definition of the word submission).

In our study we defined submission as:

What submission means - being a helpmate

a) The Meaning - A voluntary response to God's Word and Will in giving up one's independent rights to other believers in general and to ordained authority in particular. In the family, this is the yielding of the wife to her own husband so that she might overcome sin and the curse and serve the Lord by being a true helpmate to her husband.

b) The Manner - as to the Lord

1) As you submit to your husband, you are also submitting to Christ.
2) You cannot be obedient to Christ without being submissive to your husband!
3) This is "fitting" - Col 3:18 (proper, appropriate - Philemon 8: [i:acd5b6d5d5]legally binding[/i:acd5b6d5d5] - a command from God to the wife)

c) The Motive - the husband is the head of the wife (created order)

1) A Body without a Head is Dead
2) A Body that does not respond to the Head is deformed, injured, dysfunctional

d) The Model - as Christ is the Head of the Church

e) The Magnitude - in everything


We will be studying over the next few weeks the role of women within the church and then the workplace. There are definite ministry opportunities for women within the church, but we must be careful to follow the Biblical roles given for those opportunities.

And one last note - barrenness is not always a curse! Neither is singleness. You can do a search on the PB where we have discussed these things before.

Phillip
 
[quote:c5136a36b0]
barrenness is not always a curse! Neither is singleness.
[/quote:c5136a36b0]

Phillip

You and I aggree on almost all the women's role issues. Although we may disagree on the concept of the father's continuing authority over grown daughters.

I understand curse this way: If bearing children is a blessing then barrenness must be a cursing. I leave no middle ground. There is either a blessing or a cursing. Some are blessed with salvation others are cursed with damnation; many are blessed with sight and some are cursed with blindness; some are blessed with electric in their home and others are cursed to live without it. Some are blessed with marriage others are cursed with singleness. The gift in singleness is the ability to remain single and not sin. And that is a true gift and blessing, chastity. But when you couple "It is not good that man should be alone" with "every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights" we must say that marriage is blessing and therefore since the opposite of blessing is cursing singleness is therefore a curse. Certainly, it is something that some are called to (ex. Paul) and are gifted (understood as talented) to be able to endure in a holy manner. And they should endure in a joyful manner remembering that their Lord suffered much worse. But that is entirely different than saying that singleness is something that should be looked for and is some kind of Gift (understood as present) and could be thought of as qualitatively better or equal to marriage.

Chuck
 
"The gift in singleness is the ability to remain single and not sin."

This is by your definition. You don't prove that from Scripture, neither do you interact with Scriptures that indicate that a single woman is a gift to the church, in that she can care about the things of the Lord, while the married woman has to care about how to please her husband. Don't you think it is a positive blessing to be able to be more devoted to the things of the Lord? Paul did!

When you couple verses in 1 Cor 7 with "Every good and perfect gift" (the way you interpret it), you could come up with marriage being a curse!

Blessings are not isolated from the context of God's existence and character. There is no "good" thing that does not stem from the fact that God is good. Because of this, things that are difficult can be blessings because they come from above; and things that are naturally a cause for joy (naturally, because they are an expression of the perfect beauty and benevolence of God) can be abused by a rebellious heart and turned into a curse. You are seeing everything as a standing good or evil, dissociated from any context.

Did you read the thread on this subject? PastorWay posted some excellent sermon notes. You interact with none of the verses.

Perhaps this is a touchy subject for me, too: I am, according to you, "cursed" with barrenness. And according to you, I am to give in to the covetousness I feel for other people's children, and not be content in the Lord. Perhaps my husband and I will one day be missionaries to a country where Christians are persecuted: but no, I must not think of this as a blessing in the context of God's wisdom and favor in Christ, but only that I am cursed? You would tell me that He is not only giving me second best, He is giving me worst? So-- according to you, He DOES deal with me after my sin-- not according to His mercy?

Paul did see marriage and singleness as qualitatively different: and he saw singleness as being qualitatively better, because one can be less tied down to the cares of this earth. You contend that marriage is qualitatively better because of some inherent good that it possesses. I find Paul's argument more convincing.

I would rather argue that my marriage has been the greatest blessing to me, because my husband helps me to be more focused on eternity than I could be alone. But I believe it is a gift if someone could be more focused with less energy spent in earthly tasks; and I am happy for them. Our portion is the Lord, not the things of this earth. Our blessing is the partaking of that portion.




[Edited on 3-24-2004 by a mere housewife]
 
mere housewife: I just wanted to give you a hearty AMEN and tell you to PREACH IT SISTER (of course not in the church) :saint:

i was quite shocked by the "singleness is a curse" comment -- and I was so glad you brought up Paul's discourse on singleness v. marriage in 1st Corinthians -- you did a masterful job!! :thumbup:

my dear sister -- your barrenness and my friend kayjay's singleness is a gift from the Lord today -- it may not be true of either of you forever - but for today it is -- and i thank God neither of you are discontent in where the Lord has you today but are seeking to be used by Him in whatever capacity He has for you in this season of your lives!!

Praise the Lord for both of you!! Thank God that theology is for WOMEN TOO!!
 
Heidi et al,

You bring up hard questions. This will take awhile. I will reply back when I have time.

Chuck

[Edited on 3-25-2004 by twogunfighter]
 
Chuck,

Thanks for your thoughts/time...though I disagree with you most dogmatically on these issues I appreciate the challenge because though one of us in the end will be wrong - at least the wrong one will help the right one formulate their thinking a bit more, right? :smilegrin: Of course we each think we're right...who knows...maybe we're both wrong haha...

as you contemplate the questions - don't forget this one b/c I think it could be interesting:

[quote:30e920df80]
about shamefacedness - it is one of the words Paul commands women to be in the passage where he says they should be modest etc. and that they shouldn't teach men. personally I take it to mean that women are not to be aggressive in their actions towards men - ie, flirtatious and forward as men are to be initiators in relationships with women. You seem to disagree since you think I should, as a single woman, seek a man to marry. What would you advise?
[/quote:30e920df80]
 
Heidi, Kay

About the gift of singleness:

From Calvin's Institutes
[quote:4fd76758ca]
Then what is their species of vows? They offer God a promise of perpetual virginity, as if they had previously made a compact with him to free them from the necessity of marriage. They cannot allege that they make this vow trusting entirely to the grace of God; for, [u:4fd76758ca]seeing he declares this to be a special gift not given to all, (Matth. 19: 11,) no man has a right to assume that the gift will be his.[/u:4fd76758ca] Let those who have it use it; and if at any time they feel the infirmity of the flesh, let them have recourse to the aid of him by whose power alone they can resist. If this avails not, let them not despise the remedy which is offered to them. [u:4fd76758ca]If the faculty of continence is denied, the voice of God distinctly calls upon them to marry.[/u:4fd76758ca] By continence I mean not merely that by which the body is kept pure from fornication, but that by which the mind keeps its chastity untainted. For Paul enjoins caution not only against external lasciviousness, but also burning of mind, (1 Cor. 7: 9.)
[/quote:4fd76758ca]

[quote:4fd76758ca]
Did you read the thread on this subject? PastorWay posted some excellent sermon notes.
[/quote:4fd76758ca]

I stated that I agreed with Phillip so I don't know why I ought to interact with his verses. I only tried to qualify what I meant by curses because it was becoming evident that I was trying to say something that was different than what you all were talking about. After reading back through the thread, I think that we aggree on alot about the role of women. I think that if our argument is about my definition of the word "curse" then the discussion is really a little superfluous. I certainly realize that some (a very few) men and women are really called to be eunuchs. I will stipulate "curse" as having been an innapropriate and inflammatory word to have used in my argumentation here. I stand by my posts up until the infamous "curse" post.

All I meant by seek a husband was pray, be available, be presentable, go to church functions etc where Godly men may be found. To a certain extent Ruth shows us how a woman might seek a husband if God puts the right one in her path. She got all dolled up (modestly I am sure) and hung around where he was. I absolutely do not think that you ought to be running around asking men out or meeting them on Eharmony.com.

I should have ceased argumentation when I said that I would numerous posts ago. So now I am........for real :bigsmile:.

Chuck

[Edited on 3-26-2004 by twogunfighter]
 
TwoGun,

Thanks for explaining. When I asked if you had read the thread, I wasn't referring to this one, but to the thread about Barrenness being a curse, which was a few months ago. I should have made that clear. It was a very helpful thread, in the whole area of curses/blessings.

Thanks also for your sincere attitude.
 
Chuck,

Great...I'm glad you retracted the sweepingness of your statement. As far as well....what you said below -

[quote:9a9fdbd56e]
All I meant by seek a husband was pray, be available, be presentable, go to church functions etc where Godly men may be found. To a certain extent Ruth shows us how a woman might seek a husband if God puts the right one in her path. She got all dolled up (modestly I am sure) and hung around where he was. I absolutely do not think that you ought to be running around asking men out or meeting them on Eharmony.com.
[/quote:9a9fdbd56e]

I do pray and In my humble opinion am quite presentable etc. etc. but b/c I am determined to be content with the Lord today I don't go to church functions with the specific purpose to meet men. Know what I mean?

I guess I just think there is quite a difference between being available as you say (which I think is fine) and...well...hunting (which happens often - and it doesn't meant that the girl does the asking out. plenty of single Christian women are extremely flirtatious and forward in their interactions.) Sorry, I know it seems like I'm debating over minutia now...I just have always had very strong convictions about not being the initiator with men/relationships in any sense. I'm a big Elizabeth Elliott fan - I know she's not reformed per se but I think she really has a good perspective on womanhood.
 
All

I have a grave confession to make. I have been a hypocrite for longer than a year now. I have been pretending to have knowledge that I do not possess. So here goes:

I have no idea what In my humble opinion means! :eek: Can anyone tell me??? :D
 
HAHAHA its ok Chuck it took me FOREVER to figure it out

it means "in my humble opinion" which - is the ironic part because I said "in my humble opinion i am VERY presentable" haha...

i always like to try to soften the blow of my own arrogance with phrases like "In my humble opinion" haha...:lol:
 
Glad to be set straight I thought that everyone was saying "I'M Highly Outraged." Couldn't understand why you all were so mad:biggrin:
 
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