Taking a 4 day drive accross America with an Arminian

[NB3K]

Brothers

I am leaving for Las Cruces, New Mexico this Saturday. I will be riding with my Uncle (who is my aunt's husband no relation to me but marriage) who is an Arminian.

I will have four days with him stuck in a car driving from Baltimore, Md to the above mentioned destination.

Any suggestions on Evangelising to him?

I will be taking both my kindle and ipad so I will have a great amount of resources with me to quote from. I want to make the best of this trip for the advancment of Christ's Church.

All suggestions will be very helpful.

 

[Ne Oublie]

Tell him everything you have done to be saved, all the prayers and steps and faith you have and then read the scriptures that contradict and ask him if your making any sense.

 

[SolaScriptura]

He's an "Arminian?" What do you mean?

To each their own, but my initial thought is don't "evangelize" him. Just enjoy his company, and chat about whatever comes up. If the issue of Calvinism/Arminianism comes up I recommend relaying how it was that YOU came to see the doctrines of grace as being true and commend them to him for consideration.

Resist being confrontational. 4 Days is a long time to be stuck in a car with someone who you've alienated or angered.

 

[CharlieJ]

I'm not sure spending 4 days convincing Arminian family members that they're wrong is the best way to advance Christ's Church. I'm more sure that forms of the word "evangelize" should not be used toward people simply because they're Arminians. I'm definitely sure that turning a road trip into a forced multi-day theological debate without the knowledge and consent of the other person (again, family member) is a major breach of relationship.

I don't think it's wrong to bring it up. I just don't think your primary thought when getting to spend time with your family should be correcting their doctrinal errors.

 

[NB3K]

He's an "Arminian?" What do you mean?

Resist being confrontational. 4 Days is a long time to be stuck in a car with someone who you've alienated or angered.

I mean I will be the servant of one that is on the opposite side of the "theological" divide.

I know 4 days is a long time to be with one that I could anger or alienate. This is the reason why I posted this as a call for help to those that have been in the Reformed Faith longer than I.

---------- Post added at 12:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 PM ----------

Wow I am amazed that no one has an approach which would be helpful to explain the doctrine of grace without it being a turn for the worse. BTW, this is the husband of my aunt and he would be the one to minister to first. If I were to go around him and talk to his wife that would be a breach of relationship. Husbands are suppose to teach their wives not the other way around.

---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

I'm not sure spending 4 days convincing Arminian family members that they're wrong is the best way to advance Christ's Church. I'm more sure that forms of the word "evangelize" should not be used toward people simply because they're Arminians. I'm definitely sure that turning a road trip into a forced multi-day theological debate without the knowledge and consent of the other person (again, family member) is a major breach of relationship.

I don't think it's wrong to bring it up. I just don't think your primary thought when getting to spend time with your family should be correcting their doctrinal errors.

I told my Pastor yesterday that the only family that I consider family is the Church. My family (according to the flesh) doesn't even consider me family, but only when they want something.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Wow I am amazed that no one has an approach which would be helpful to explain the doctrine of grace without it being a turn for the worse.

Um, I did give you an approach that would be helpful.

 

[NB3K]

Wow I am amazed that no one has an approach which would be helpful to explain the doctrine of grace without it being a turn for the worse.

Um, I did give you an approach that would be helpful.

yes but He may not even know that the doctrine of Grace is.

and I have no clue how to present it and where to go and not go because I am so green in the faith.

 

[PreservedKillick]

I'm in agreement with the general run of this thread. I would say focus the discussion on Christ and answer questions and gently clear up misconceptions about Reformed theology if they come up, rather than making it a debate. Debating my family when I was new to Reformed doctrine went absolutely nowhere and was unedifying for all involved.

I wouldn't use the term "evangelize" either, but perhaps something like the discussion between Charles Simeon and John Wesley in the first chapter of Packer's Evangelism and the Sovereigntyy of God?

 

[NB3K]

I'm in agreement with the general run of this thread. I would say focus the discussion on Christ and answer questions and gently clear up misconceptions about Reformed theology if they come up, rather than making it a debate. Debating my family when I was new to Reformed doctrine went absolutely nowhere and was unedifying for all involved.

I wouldn't use the term "evangelize" either, but perhaps something like the discussion between Charles Simeon and John Wesley in the first chapter of Packer's Evangelism and the Sovereigntyy of God?

Ok I am in total agreement to both points. I have found that telling people that they are wrong only brings anger and heated debate.

 

[greenbaggins]

Wow I am amazed that no one has an approach which would be helpful to explain the doctrine of grace without it being a turn for the worse.

Um, I did give you an approach that would be helpful.

yes but He may not even know that the doctrine of Grace is.

and I have no clue how to present it and where to go and not go because I am so green in the faith.

First of all, prayer is absolutely essential here. Pray and pray and pray some more about this time, that it may be profitable. Second, I agree with the others not to force the issue of Calvinism and Arminianism into the conversation. Thirdly, since he is older than you are, do more listening than talking. Try to understand his position "from the inside," by trying to put on his shoes. Again, assuming that the topic comes up naturally, try to find out how and why he believes what he believes. Fourthly, if an opportunity arises for you to share the doctrines of grace with him, do it more by asking questions, and not loaded ones, either. Try to pitch it as mutual exploration of the Bible, rather than a debate. A debate will usually only raise his defense mechanisms. Don't put him on the defensive. This will only polarize him further. What God has done in your life is usually a helpful way to go with this as well, since you can easily phrase your experience in terms that are not combative.

 

[NB3K]

Wow I am amazed that no one has an approach which would be helpful to explain the doctrine of grace without it being a turn for the worse.

Um, I did give you an approach that would be helpful.

yes but He may not even know that the doctrine of Grace is.

and I have no clue how to present it and where to go and not go because I am so green in the faith.

First of all, prayer is absolutely essential here. Pray and pray and pray some more about this time, that it may be profitable. Second, I agree with the others not to force the issue of Calvinism and Arminianism into the conversation. Thirdly, since he is older than you are, do more listening than talking. Try to understand his position "from the inside," by trying to put on his shoes. Again, assuming that the topic comes up naturally, try to find out how and why he believes what he believes. Fourthly, if an opportunity arises for you to share the doctrines of grace with him, do it more by asking questions, and not loaded ones, either. Try to pitch it as mutual exploration of the Bible, rather than a debate. A debate will usually only raise his defense mechanisms. Don't put him on the defensive. This will only polarize him further. What God has done in your life is usually a helpful way to go with this as well, since you can easily phrase your experience in terms that are not combative.

Thank you

 

[Jack K]

If you are a consistent Calvinist, you have more reason than he does to be a humble and patient Christian. So above all else... be gracious, slow to speak, not argumentative, preferring to focus on your own shortcomings rather than on his. Four days together in a car means there is no effective apologetic unless these character traits are present to witness to the transformative power of the gospel of grace.

 

[LeeD]

Great advice given in this thread. Another good conversation would be to share the truths surrounding the atonement that God has revealed in the Scriptures. A right view of the atonement can go along way in open a brother's eyes to the doctrines of grace.

 

[Sviata Nich]

Perhaps listening to an audio teaching, like Sproul's "Willing to believe" (if he's up for it)? Very respectful and well done. But above all, pray.

 

[Frosty]

If you are a consistent Calvinist, you have more reason than he does to be a humble and patient Christian. So above all else... be gracious, slow to speak, not argumentative, preferring to focus on your own shortcomings rather than on his. Four days together in a car means there is no effective apologetic unless these character traits are present to witness to the transformative power of the gospel of grace.

This. Well said, Jack.

 

[NB3K]

Perhaps listening to an audio teaching, like Sproul's "Willing to believe" (if he's up for it)? Very respectful and well done. But above all, pray.

I have that book on my kindle. It was awesome!

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

Don't try to force the conversation. That will't imagine imediately put him on the defensive and you will end with poor results. LEt the conversation come up naturally. I can't imagine that 4 days stuck in a car together that you won't have any chance to discuss your doctrine. But ALWAYS be kind and gracious. He is family and a brother in Christ. No need alienating yourself and offending over this.

 

[Rich Koster]

Scan the dial for some of the "religious" AM radio stations across the midwest and use them as conversation starters. There will probably be a few points you both agree upon when it comes to bad doctrine being spread from them and build some discussion upon that.

 

[Scott1]

Pray the night before.

Right up front, share the gospel. Don't delay.

Explain from a few Scriptures, e.g.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The Bible tells us we have all sinned.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God.

Yet, God tells us we must obey Him to go to Heaven.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

There is only one person who perfectly obeyed God, and who died a perfect death on the cross to pay for that sin.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The gift of salvation cannot be earned, it is a free gift that we access by faith.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

If we receive Christ as Savior and Lord, we can know we are saved.
I John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And in this life, Jesus is Lord, and we must obey Him.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Leave the results to God.

Follow up based on His response, interest and questions over your 4 days. Refer back ocassionally to the first day's scripture promises.

Have some Dr. Sproul tapes to play.

Do your research in advance, find a church if the Lord's Day is along the way. Or, if in Las Cruces, attend Lord's Day services with them.
*|* Grace Covenant Church

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

Also, don't "overdo" it, you have lots of idle time to talk about other things or detour to things he is interested in.

Don't forget to pray as things come up, pray for him, difficulties along the way, etc.

But, every day, in the ordinary course, weave in what is in your life, our Lord, His Word, your life.

 

[NB3K]

Pray the night before.

Right up front, share the gospel. Don't delay.

Explain from a few Scriptures, e.g.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The Bible tells us we have all sinned.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God.

Yet, God tells us we must obey Him to go to Heaven.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

There is only one person who perfectly obeyed God, and who died a perfect death on the cross to pay for that sin.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The gift of salvation cannot be earned, it is a free gift that we access by faith.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.

If we receive Christ as Savior and Lord, we can know we are saved.
I John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And in this life, Jesus is Lord, and we must obey Him.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Leave the results to God.

Follow up based on His response, interest and questions over your 4 days. Refer back ocassionally to the first day's scripture promises.

Have some Dr. Sproul tapes to play.

Do your research in advance, find a church if the Lord's Day is along the way. Or, if in Las Cruces, attend Lord's Day services with them.
*|* Grace Covenant Church

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

Also, don't "overdo" it, you have lots of idle time to talk about other things or detour to things he is interested in.

Don't forget to pray as things come up, pray for him, difficulties along the way, etc.

But, every day, in the ordinary course, weave in what is in your life, our Lord, His Word, your life.

So you are basically telling me to search for points of agreement?

 

[Scott1]

You said evangelizing an Arminian....

 

[NB3K]

You said evangelizing an Arminian....

I mean with the doctrine of Grace.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

I think some of you are overthinking evangelizing. There's no reason to hold back from sharing the Gospel (i.e. evangelize) with someone you think haven't heard/grasped it yet. If it comes off as offensive or rude to the person, then it is HIS problem, not yours. In doing so you're simply showing your concern for another soul, which is unobjectionable behavior. We cannot change the fact that sometimes our fellow Brothers and Sisters do not hearken to our (or better, God's) exhortation and rebuke, but get hostile to the Word of God. This is where the work of the Holy Spirit takes place (if He so desires).

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." (Prov. 27:5)

But before you proceed to exhorting or rebuking your uncle, make sure he, by his own words, affirms he is an Arminian and believes such and such. Try to make him convinced that it is the Word of God that speaks against him, and not just your own words.

 

[NB3K]

I think some of you are overthinking evangelizing. There's no reason to hold back from sharing the Gospel (i.e. evangelize) with someone you think haven't heard/grasped it yet. If it comes off as offensive or rude to the person, then it is HIS problem, not yours. In doing so you're simply showing your concern for another soul, which is unobjectionable behavior. We cannot change the fact that sometimes our fellow Brothers and Sisters do not hearken to our (or better, God's) exhortation and rebuke, but get hostile to the Word of God. This is where the work of the Holy Spirit takes place (if He so desires).

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." (Prov. 27:5)

But before you proceed to exhorting or rebuking your uncle, make sure he, by his own words, affirms he is an Arminian and believes such and such. Try to make him convinced that it is the Word of God that speaks against him, and not just your own words.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

I think some of you are overthinking evangelizing. There's no reason to hold back from sharing the Gospel (i.e. evangelize) with someone you think haven't heard/grasped it yet. If it comes off as offensive or rude to the person, then it is HIS problem, not yours. In doing so you're simply showing your concern for another soul, which is unobjectionable behavior. We cannot change the fact that sometimes our fellow Brothers and Sisters do not hearken to our (or better, God's) exhortation and rebuke, but get hostile to the Word of God. This is where the work of the Holy Spirit takes place (if He so desires).

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." (Prov. 27:5)

But before you proceed to exhorting or rebuking your uncle, make sure he, by his own words, affirms he is an Arminian and believes such and such. Try to make him convinced that it is the Word of God that speaks against him, and not just your own words.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

Oh to be a young calvinist again. Just about every "arminian" will agree that we are saved by grace. It is dishonest to portray your average arminian christian otherwise. If that is what your Uncle believes then that is most important. You are not worried about saving his soul anymore but making him conform to certain doctrines.

 

[NB3K]

I think some of you are overthinking evangelizing. There's no reason to hold back from sharing the Gospel (i.e. evangelize) with someone you think haven't heard/grasped it yet. If it comes off as offensive or rude to the person, then it is HIS problem, not yours. In doing so you're simply showing your concern for another soul, which is unobjectionable behavior. We cannot change the fact that sometimes our fellow Brothers and Sisters do not hearken to our (or better, God's) exhortation and rebuke, but get hostile to the Word of God. This is where the work of the Holy Spirit takes place (if He so desires).

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." (Prov. 27:5)

But before you proceed to exhorting or rebuking your uncle, make sure he, by his own words, affirms he is an Arminian and believes such and such. Try to make him convinced that it is the Word of God that speaks against him, and not just your own words.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

Oh to be a young calvinist again. Just about every "arminian" will agree that we are saved by grace. It is dishonest to portray your average arminian christian otherwise. If that is what your Uncle believes then that is most important. You are not worried about saving his soul anymore but making him conform to certain doctrines.

The Arminian does say that they are saved by grace, but the problem is what we call grace they call the doctrine of the devil. And what they consider to be grace is nothing but "help" to use their free-will to co-operate with the agency of the Holy Spirit. That is not grace.

 

[Reformed Roman]

They know it was all God, they just understand it differently. They think they have the ability to choose it. That doesn't mean they don't think God enabled them to. Many of them are just confused on these things.

I was an arminian for probably a year after getting saved..I was an arminian for a year... but I was saved for that year.

Many arminians are saved, and very very few people are saved knowing and believing the doctrines of grace.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

and if they are saved, that must mean they are in Christ, they believe the gospel, and they have a foundation in that. So this is a time of fellowship. Iron sharpens Iron, and yes, as a Christian he can sharpen you too. If he can't, he's not a Christian, and if he's not, it doesn't matter if he believes in the doctrines of arminianism or Calvinism or any other ism. I like Ben's advice more then anyone's. The LORD blessed you with a good time of fellowship, maybe share how you've grown in the faith. Maybe your testimony, and continue it by how God has worked and what He has shown you. And you could mention the doctrines of grace there. Also be willing to listen to him though, realizing that you can learn something from him too.

 

[Philip]

Any suggestions on Evangelising to him?

Does he trust in Christ alone for his salvation? If that's what he professes, then you shouldn't be worried about evangelizing him. I'm generally not worried about the salvific status of my Arminian friends. My attitude tends to be that of George Whitefield after he fell out with John Wesley over this issue and famously responded to the question of whether he would see Wesley in Heaven with something along the lines of "Of course not, because he'll be so much closer to the throne of Grace that I won't be able to see through the crowd."

Inconsistent theology doesn't necessarily keep someone from the kingdom. Good Arminians are Calvinists who don't know it yet.

 

[VictorBravo]

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but you ought to rethink your words. Consider some of the most effective preaching ever recorded:

Act 2:36-24
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Is not the word "repent" a word demanding a decision? It's a rethinking, certainly. And the command "save yourself." Are we to think Peter just got it wrong?

Peter does say this promise is for those whom the "Lord shall call." Nevertheless, he also preaches a command to these miserable wretches.

 

[NB3K]

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but you ought to rethink your words. Consider some of the most effective preaching ever recorded:

Act 2:36-24
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Is not the word "repent" a word demanding a decision? It's a rethinking, certainly. And the command "save yourself." Are we to think Peter just got it wrong?

Peter does say this promise is for those whom the "Lord shall call." Nevertheless, he also preaches a command to these miserable wretches.

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3539
Citing in TDNT: 4:975, 636

Yes it does mean to change one's mind. But if one is born again by the Holy Spirit, repentance is a sure thing. When they have eyes that see, ears that hear, and a heart of flesh to understand they will all turn to Christ and he will heal them and their sins will be forgiven.

Mar 4:12 so that "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."