Taking a 4 day drive accross America with an Arminian

[InSlaveryToChrist]

They know it was all God, they just understand it differently. They think they have the ability to choose it. That doesn't mean they don't think God enabled them to. Many of them are just confused on these things.

I've never thought of it before, but after having reflected a while on what you said above I realized that we can become so irrationally blind that we can believe simultaneosly that salvation is all of God's grace and yet that salvation is dependent on our choice to believe in and follow Christ -- because, in our blindness, we are unable to see the contradiction we are making. But then again, I don't believe our faith can be authentic, if we do see the contradiction between our premises -- for that is to go against conscience, which is no safe business! And not only that, we are then fully aware that we are attributing some of the honor of our salvation to our virtue and merit, as opposed to Christ.

I was an arminian for probably a year after getting saved..I was an arminian for a year... but I was saved for that year.

I have the same experience.

Many arminians are saved, and very very few people are saved knowing and believing the doctrines of grace.

Amen.

 

[Scott1]

After you've shared the Scriptures, and come back to them in the ordinary course of discussion, here is one illustration:

Two views of salvation
Man is at the bottom of a pit and cannot get out. God sees the man in the bottom of the pit, has compassion on him and throws the man a life line to climb out. The man must hold on tightly to the rope as God pulls him out.

Man is at the bottom of a pit, dead. God sees the man, and climbs down into the pit. God puts the lifeless body on his shoulders, climbs the wall, and carries him out. God lays him down on the ground above, and breathes life into him.

 

[NB3K]

Many arminians are saved, and very very few people are saved knowing and believing the doctrines of grace.

Amen.[/QUOTE]

Whatever the case may be, the fact remains that one is saved by GOd's Grace and nothing else.

 

[VictorBravo]

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but you ought to rethink your words. Consider some of the most effective preaching ever recorded:

Act 2:36-24
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Is not the word "repent" a word demanding a decision? It's a rethinking, certainly. And the command "save yourself." Are we to think Peter just got it wrong?

Peter does say this promise is for those whom the "Lord shall call." Nevertheless, he also preaches a command to these miserable wretches.

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3539
Citing in TDNT: 4:975, 636

Yes it does mean to change one's mind. But if one is born again by the Holy Spirit, repentance is a sure thing. When they have eyes that see, ears that hear, and a heart of flesh to understand they will all turn to Christ and he will heal them and their sins will be forgiven.

Mar 4:12 so that "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."

Right and correct. But my point was that I thought your statement was overbroad. You said:

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works.

Peter's direct aim in his preaching was to get miserable wretches to change their mind. He knew he couldn't do it for them, that it was of God. But still, in a very real sense, he "preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision." He acted as if his preaching were a means. And I'm sure we can agree it was of the Gospel.

 

[NB3K]

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works. It is only by grace and grace alone are we saved. I want everyone to know the Grace of God! Because it is by the grace of God that we obtain a peace that surpasses all understanding!

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but you ought to rethink your words. Consider some of the most effective preaching ever recorded:

Act 2:36-24
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Is not the word "repent" a word demanding a decision? It's a rethinking, certainly. And the command "save yourself." Are we to think Peter just got it wrong?

Peter does say this promise is for those whom the "Lord shall call." Nevertheless, he also preaches a command to these miserable wretches.

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3539
Citing in TDNT: 4:975, 636

Yes it does mean to change one's mind. But if one is born again by the Holy Spirit, repentance is a sure thing. When they have eyes that see, ears that hear, and a heart of flesh to understand they will all turn to Christ and he will heal them and their sins will be forgiven.

Mar 4:12 so that "they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."

Right and correct. But my point was that I thought your statement was overbroad. You said:

For I believe with my whole heart that the Gospel that is preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision is no Gospel at all but of works.

Peter's direct aim in his preaching was to get miserable wretches to change their mind. He knew he couldn't do it for them, that it was of God. But still, in a very real sense, he "preached in order to get the miserable wretch to make a decision." He acted as if his preaching were a means. And I'm sure we can agree it was of the Gospel.

I'll just read Calvin's Sermons on Ephesians. And I'll stay in prayer on this matter and I'll seek the Lord's will. If it is the Lord's will I will teach the doctrine of Grace to my uncle by professing my own conversion and how I used to be like him and I had no victory over sin until I finally gave up and fell into the everlasting arms of my Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Philip]

If it is the Lord's will I will teach the doctrine of Grace to my uncle by professing my own conversion and how I used to be like him and I had no victory over sin until I finally gave up and fell into the everlasting arms of my Lord Jesus Christ.

And what if he says "amen"? There's nothing in that language that an Arminian would disagree with. It sounds like the kind of thing John Wesley would say.

 

[NB3K]

If it is the Lord's will I will teach the doctrine of Grace to my uncle by professing my own conversion and how I used to be like him and I had no victory over sin until I finally gave up and fell into the everlasting arms of my Lord Jesus Christ.

And what if he says "amen"? There's nothing in that language that an Arminian would disagree with. It sounds like the kind of thing John Wesley would say.

idk how would you handle the situation?

 

[nicnap]

Jason, I think what the people here are trying to say is this: you just need to extol the goodness of God, and His great riches and mercy toward you. Everyone here believes in doctrines of grace as much as you do, and adamantly want others to hold them. But here's the rub; you are not going to change your uncle, even by clever argumentation and "irrefutable Scripture proof." Just as it is grace that saves, it is grace that sanctifies and brings men and women to a fuller understanding of the gospel. There is no need to name the doctrine of predestination to your uncle, or say unconditional election, etc. If it comes up, you simply discuss it from the Scripture, and say, "Isn't God gracious to save undeserving sinners?" Your uncle will not buck at that -- no Christian would. If he does, or he tries to offer some refutation of it, take him to Scripture. Let the names of those doctrines come later. This should be natural, not confrontational.

There has been plenty of good advice here, take time to consider what these folks are counseling -- they've been around the block a time or two.

 

[jwithnell]

This is a road trip! You will see some awesome country! This is a great opportunity to get to know each other better, to explore common interests, to share a good time. People are usually a lot more open to discussing their theological perspectives when they have a good relationship. Lord willing, this guy isn't going to die and fall off the face of the earth next week. Share a good, general discussion, and when points of difference arise, follow the great advice you've received from other responders. In the future, you may have the chance to build on your discussions.

 

[Philip]

If it is the Lord's will I will teach the doctrine of Grace to my uncle by professing my own conversion and how I used to be like him and I had no victory over sin until I finally gave up and fell into the everlasting arms of my Lord Jesus Christ.

And what if he says "amen"? There's nothing in that language that an Arminian would disagree with. It sounds like the kind of thing John Wesley would say.

idk how would you handle the situation?

I wouldn't end up in that situation because I wouldn't frame the question in terms of salvation---when I converse with Arminians, I do so with the assumption that they are fellow believers in Christ, unless I have some evidence to the contrary.

 

[steadfast7]

My cheeky suggestion to get the ball rolling: before you start your journey on the road, pray, "Lord, bring me to a place where I can exercise my free will to make good driving choices that will save our lives in the event of a major collision on the road."

 

[BJClark]

I would also change the attitude that comes across in the words..."stuck in a car with"

You should count it a blessing that God is giving you the opportunity to get to know your uncle and yes, even a fellow Christian better. What a joy and a blessing that alone can be.

Years ago I took a trip from Idaho to Florida with a gentleman friend of my mothers that I barely knew, I was wanting to drive home and visit my family, and he was insistent I not drive across country alone. I had my own apprehensions as I'd only met him once before (but, he was wanting to marry my mother, so I learned to look at it as an opportunity to get to know him better)

During that trip across country he and I became good friends, and over the years he became more like a father to me and a loving grandfather figure to my children, even after my mothers death he continued to be an active part of our lives until his own death. Me and my children miss him greatly and it was in the relationship that grew out of that trip that opened the door for us to have many talks about Christ and salvation and God's grace towards us.

So please change your thinking of 'being stuck in a car with him" to one that you are being given an opportunity to really get to know someone, and who knows you may even learn a lot from him, as opposed to you 'teaching' him something.

 

[NB3K]

Brother's

I am back! Everything worked out according to God's will. I never forced "calvinism" down anyone's throat. I only quoted Scripture to my aunt and uncle whenever they would say something that contradicted Scripture. And there was no fighting.

The only problem is that I do not think my relatives are converted. They do everything according to the way they want things done. Like the translate the Bible according to their own liking. They told me that we do not need any doctrine but only to choose Jesus. To them the only thing that matters is whether or not you have chosen Jesus for you personal savior.

So instead of seeking to teach election to them, I spent my time explaining that the work of God's grace in the heart of His children was monergistic and that unless the Lord works in the heart of a sinner, there is no hope for that sinner. When my aunt disagreed, I just went to the Scriptures. I also explained to her in a humble and graceful manner that what she believed is the reason why there was a Protestant Reformation.

All in all I enjoyed their company. Even though there may not be fruit right away, I am completely sure I sowed the seeds of God's gospel, and now it is up to the Holy Spirit to move and work. Please pray for my aunt and uncle that the light shines in their darkened hearts and that it exposes their error and not blind them in a stupor.

For instance when my aunt said that we must use our freewill to chooses Jesus I simply quoted Isaiah 65:1

Isa 65:1 I was ready to be sought by those who did not ask for me; I was ready to be found by those who did not seek me. I said, "Here am I, here am I," to a nation that was not called by my name.

My aunt read this out aloud and she looked completely dumbfounded when she finished reading it.


---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 AM ----------

If you are a consistent Calvinist, you have more reason than he does to be a humble and patient Christian. So above all else... be gracious, slow to speak, not argumentative, preferring to focus on your own shortcomings rather than on his. Four days together in a car means there is no effective apologetic unless these character traits are present to witness to the transformative power of the gospel of grace.

This. Well said, Jack.

What's up with you avatar? Joel Osteen??? It's Your time LOL.... Only a heretic would teach such garbage, or maybe he isn't even a heretic, but a wolf! I think it's funny, but it is all so sad, because that is the attitude of many professing believers. What is in the gospel for me (according to the flesh).

 

[pianoman]

Being an Arminian doesn't keep someone from being the elect, and therefore, not being born-again. They just have different theological and soteriological views. Although their views may not be correct 100%, I believe we will see many Armenians in Heaven. Just talk about Jesus or anything else that comes up, and enjoy your uncle's company, brother.

 

[Philip]

Being an Armenian doesn't keep someone from being the elect

Indeed---the Armenian Orthodox Church is one of the oldest Christian bodies in the world. Or were you trying to say "Arminian"?

Seriously, it's an easy spelling mistake to make.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Being an Armenian doesn't keep someone from being the elect, and therefore, not being born-again. They just have different theological and soteriological views. Although their views may not be correct 100%, I believe we will see many Armenians in Heaven. Just talk about Jesus or anything else that comes up, and enjoy your uncle's company, brother.

Actually, being elect does not equal being born-again. There are elect who are still unbelievers. But I also expect to see many Arminians in Heaven. However, that sort of Arminians will be ones who are unable to see the contradiction of their soteriology, namely, that if salvation is all of grace, man cannot contribute to his own salvation. As to those Arminians who see this contradiction, they have two options: it's all glory to God or it's some glory to man -- you cannot have them both (now that you're aware of your contradiction)! One is, then, forced to become either reformed in his soteriology, or to become an enemy of God's glory and the Gospel. But then it's good to remember that we (outsiders) cannot tell for sure what sort of Arminian a person is, only God can search the heart of man.

 

[NB3K]

Being an Armenian doesn't keep someone from being the elect, and therefore, not being born-again. They just have different theological and soteriological views. Although their views may not be correct 100%, I believe we will see many Armenians in Heaven. Just talk about Jesus or anything else that comes up, and enjoy your uncle's company, brother.

Look there is only 1 Lord, 1 Gospel, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism, not many. The Lord Jesus said that there would be many that come and say they are Christ's. And Paul says that in the end many will amass for themselves teachers that will scratch their itchy ears. And the Lord said in Matt. 7 that many will say lord lord did we not do this or that, and Christ says depart from me I never knew you. We are suppose to judge what people say from their mouths. If one is doctrinally wrong then there is something wrong. If one professes to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them and they deny grace from their very lips, than there is something that does not add up.

Their lips ought to confess what is in their hearts. I am sorry, but after talking and LISTENING for over a week, I can say without a shed of a doubt that my aunt and uncle are not believers of what the Scriptures say. Actually they don't even know what the Scriptures say. They need prayer. I need prayer the most, but please pray that the Lord gives them ears to hear, eyes to see, and a heart to understand, so they will turn and be forgiven.

Because I am sure if I would have dug my trench based on Scripture Alone, there would have been war. And the war would not have come from my end, but from the end that has the mind that is set on the flesh, which is at war against God. I did more listening than talking. The only time I talked Scripture was when they said something that totally contradicted Scripture. And they were totally unaware that the Scripture that I quoted was acually Scripture. My aunt loves Kay Arthur and Joyce Mayer. My uncle love TBN, and Charles Stanley, and after listening to Charles Stanley for over a week, I believe Charles Stanley does not know the Gospel.

While I was in the so-called "Bible-Belt" of the south, I noticed that the south is like totally unaware of the Grace of God. All the bilboards are placarded with nothing but LAW. Thou shall not! ect... There was no Grace on those bilboards. Our nation is in the desperate need of the knowledge of God's Grace, because we are illiterate to it.


And not only that, but it seems like the southern churches teach the law wrongly. They beat people with it instead of using it as a schoolmaster to point to Christ and what Christ has done for us.

Does anyone think I have made an accurate judgment of all that I saw and heard? (Speaking of the South and their lack of the knowledge of God's Grace)

 

[AThornquist]

It is easy to claim that someone who differs from you "doesn't understand the Gospel." I'll tell you what, I don't have a very good understanding of the Gospel, even if I think my theological ducks are in a slightly straighter row than some other people. It is that attitude of "Calvinism or nothing" that does a fantastic job of creating barriers rather than breaking them down for the sake of the Gospel.

 

[VictorBravo]

Jason, I am praising God that it went well and you were able to graciously hold to Scripture. It is not my place to evaluate your judgment of their spiritual condition and you are right to ask for prayer for them. I am truly happy that you were able to enjoy their company.

It is encouraging to see a brother grow in grace and wisdom in applying God's Word to daily affairs.

 

[yoyoceramic]

All in all I enjoyed their company. Even though there may not be fruit right away, I am completely sure I sowed the seeds of God's gospel, and now it is up to the Holy Spirit to move and work. Please pray for my aunt and uncle that the light shines in their darkened hearts and that it exposes their error and not blind them in a stupor.

Wonderful Jason, I am glad you had some good conversation with them. Are you praying for an opportunity to disciple or teach them further?

 

[NB3K]

All in all I enjoyed their company. Even though there may not be fruit right away, I am completely sure I sowed the seeds of God's gospel, and now it is up to the Holy Spirit to move and work. Please pray for my aunt and uncle that the light shines in their darkened hearts and that it exposes their error and not blind them in a stupor.

Wonderful Jason, I am glad you had some good conversation with them. Are you praying for an opportunity to disciple or teach them further?

I am just praying to our Heavenly Father that He does to them as He did to me. I am not praying that they stand on every theological letter that I do, but that they come to the knowledge of the Truth. I know I sowed seeds over the field, it is up to the Holy Spirit to breath life in them.

My aunt and uncle are not Arminian's but Pelagian's. They are totally unaware to the false system of doctrine that they are under. They have never even heard of the five Sola's of the Protestant Reformation. I understand brother's that a knowledge of church history and all the theological systems are not a prerequisite for being a Child of the Most High God, but if the Spirit of God dwells within them than, there should be unity in Spirit and in Truth! That is the Truth whether we like it or not.

 

[jogri17]

May I suggest in locking yourself in a cage to channel James White here

 

[NB3K]

May I suggest in locking yourself in a cage to channel James White here

If you do not mind, can you please elaborate. I am not understanding what you have said.

 

[pianoman]

Being an Armenian doesn't keep someone from being the elect

Indeed---the Armenian Orthodox Church is one of the oldest Christian bodies in the world. Or were you trying to say "Arminian"?

Seriously, it's an easy spelling mistake to make.

yes spelling mistake. sorry

 

[NB3K]

It is easy to claim that someone who differs from you "doesn't understand the Gospel." I'll tell you what, I don't have a very good understanding of the Gospel, even if I think my theological ducks are in a slightly straighter row than some other people. It is that attitude of "Calvinism or nothing" that does a fantastic job of creating barriers rather than breaking them down for the sake of the Gospel.

I never forced "calvinism" down anyone's throat

She told me that she was saved according to her choosing of Christ. That God has given everyone free-will to choose him. This directly contradicts Scripture. I never forced "calvinism" and I did not have the attitude that it is "calvinism" or nothing. Actually I HATE THE TERM CALVINISM! It takes away the glory of God and robs HIm who elected us according to His purpose before the foundation of the world of all honor. The term calvinism is the greatest tool the evil one has at keeping people away from the Gospel.

I simply took what they said and weighed it against what the Scriptures said and then showed them what the Scriptures said. They still denied the Scriptures. All the teacher's of the old school would say they believe in a divergent gospel ie.. one that is unbiblical, or as the apostle would say a gospel which is no Gospel at all. I don't say this proudly, but in a spirit of deep sorrow. It hurt's me to think that my family does not hold to the Scriptures and that they have been tricked into a lie of the evil one. I cried out to the Lord "PLEASE SAVE MY FAMILY!"

If I had the "attitude" that it was "Calvinism or nothing", I would have never given 10 days of my time away from my wife and children to go serve my aunt's husband. But I did serve my aunt's husband because I believed this was a good work that God had prepared for me to walk in. And when I heard what they said, which went against Scripture, I felt compelled to lay before them the Scripture. Now who would sit and allow someone to go on in error unchallenged? If you knew someone in your family that was in great error and God has given you eyes to see and ears to here and a heart to understand, would you simply sit back and say nothing or in all humility try to show their errors in the hope that God would grant them repentance?

I would hope that you would be loving towards them and point them to Jesus Christ and that is all that I did. I never pointed them to "calvinism" but to Jesus Christ and Him crucified!

 

[AThornquist]

It's great to care enough about family to discuss the Scriptures with them. That's not the point (even though the unpleasant task of "having to deal with Arminians" was mentioned). What is frustrating is that more people get pulled into the "they don't understand the Gospel" zone; i.e. Charles Stanley. If you're talking about all of these matters in private, that's one thing, but there are Arminians who search through these boards who may see your simple conclusion on another person's faith and come away with nothing but apprehensiveness. This kind of talk has been quite frequent, and it's probably more detrimental than anything. But, I'll leave this thread now. Carry on.

 

[NB3K]

But, I'll leave this thread now. Carry on

Why leave? Please stay I am encouraged by people like you. SERIOUSLY I AM!

Here I was just explaining what happened on the trip that I was on.

there are Arminians who search through these boards who may see your simple conclusion

It was not a simple conclusion that I came to, but a simple cross-examination of what they said and what the Scripture's said. Instead of causing strife in debate, I simply followed after A W Pink when he wrote,

Our first thought was to devote an introductory chapter unto a setting forth the principle errors which have been entertained upon this subject by different men and parties, but after more deliberation we decided this would be for little or no profit to the majority of our readers. While there are times, no doubt, when it becomes the distasteful duty of God's servants to expose that which is calculated to deceive and injure His people, yet, as a general rule, the most effective way of getting rid of darkness is to let in the light.

Pink, Arthur W. (2011). Reformed Classics: The Doctrine of Justification (Kindle Locations 5-9). Reformed Classics. Kindle Edition.

I am learning that debate is not always the most helpful way of spreading the Gospel. That instead of arguing with those who have no life and who are in darkness, if would just be better to open the Scripture's (shine the light on them) and let the Holy Spirit blow His life giving breath upon them.

As for Arminians reading these posts, I hope they will come to the conclusion, that when they read what I post, they will say "Aha here is one who actually stands on the principle of Scripture Alone." And they get led to the King of Glory.

It is people like you that have molded my mind and the way I teach. I am greatly indebted to you all.

 

[JM]

I recently heard a preacher say something like,

"Arminians say, 'I'm saved by grace BUT,' then go about BUTTING all the grace out of salvation."

Pray, know that God's will be done and speak about the scriptures frankly.

 

[Joseph Scibbe]

I recently heard a preacher say something like,

"Arminians say, 'I'm saved by grace BUT,' then go about BUTTING all the grace out of salvation."

Pray, know that God's will be done and speak about the scriptures frankly.

I heard a preacher say "Calvinists don't believe in evangelism because God will just save people". See, I can make general statements about a theological camp without any real honesty. This whole thread has been really sad. I don't like the attitude that "Well, they don't hold 100% to my awesome confession and therefore they aren't saved". The Scriptures teach that there are different stages in the life of a Christian starting with milk and moving to meat. I don't know how long your family members have known Christ but you can't and shouldn't expecct young and immature belivers to be pro theologians. I know you say you may hate the term calvinism but the fact is you are acting in the way that Andrew said. You have shown very little grace toward the growth your family needs to experience. Becoming a "calvinist" often is a long process that will involve a lot of questioning. I would ask how long you have been a...whatever your replacement for the tem calvinist is?

 

[NB3K]

I don't like the attitude that "Well, they don't hold 100% to my awesome confession and therefore they aren't saved".

You cannot find that in my posts on this thread.

You will find me making these kind of statements:

The only time I talked Scripture was when they said something that totally contradicted Scripture.

I am not praying that they stand on every theological letter that I do, but that they come to the knowledge of the Truth.

I don't know how long your family members have known Christ but you can't and shouldn't expecct young and immature belivers to be pro theologians.

My aunt is 60 and she would lay claim that she was born-again in the 1960's and her husband who is 74, would say he has been a christian from his pre-teen years. I never put a bar for them to reach to in the "theological" scale of things, but I just wanted them to see that what they said contradicted not the so-called confessions but the Word of God which we are suppose to conform to. I did it this way so that they will KNOW THAT SCRIPTURE REFUTES THEIR CLAIM! And in doing so there eyes would be opened to the truth. It was never to put myself above them but at their feet in an attempt to spread the Truth.

I know God knows what the intention of my heart was. Even though I have a habit of destroying the way I deliver the truth. This is why I only quoted Scripture Alone, and left my arguments to myself hoping that the Holy Spirit would move and they would come to praise God's Glorious Grace!

I would ask how long you have been a...whatever your replacement for the tem calvinist is?

I have been a Christian since 2007 or 2008. I cannot put a finger on the day that Christ made me alive, but I have known the doctrine of God's Grace for 2 and a half years and even though I mess up and refer it as "Cavlinism" I HATE THE TERM. Calvin was not the first to teach the doctrine of grace. Before him was Augustine, Paul, Jesus, the Prophets and Moses. I would call it The Way! The Truth! And The Life! Call it Christianity 101.