The Apostle Paul's Forgetfulness

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blhowes

Puritan Board Professor
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

I was just wondering if anybody has any thoughts about these verses? It almost seems like, in verses 14 and 16, that he's saying, "I baptized Crispus and Gaius, and also the household of Stephanas. Other than them, I can't remember if I baptized anybody else at Corinth"

It just strikes me as an interesting statement, considering his learning and how sharp his mind was.
 

rgrove

Puritan Board Freshman
Some of the smartest people I've ever met have been equally forgetful in the darndest ways... I work in the I/S field and have met some incredibly smart people at I/S stuff. But they were lucky to remember to put their shoes on in the morning before coming to work. That may be an extreme example, but I expect the Apostle may just have just forgotten details in the boatloads of baptisms he probably performed over his years of ministry.

[Edited on 9-9-2005 by rgrove]
 

andreas

Puritan Board Sophomore
*I was just wondering if anybody has any thoughts about these verses? It almost seems like, in verses 14 and 16, that he's saying, "I baptized Crispus and Gaius, and also the household of Stephanas. Other than them, I can't remember if I baptized anybody else at Corinth"

Here he tells us that he baptized another house but after that he could not remember whether he baptized any others. Baptism was not his primary function for the churches.

(a) For Christ sent me not to baptize, (b) but to preach the gospel: (c) not with wisdom of words, (d) lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.1 Cor.1:17

andreas.
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by blhowes
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

I was just wondering if anybody has any thoughts about these verses? It almost seems like, in verses 14 and 16, that he's saying, "I baptized Crispus and Gaius, and also the household of Stephanas. Other than them, I can't remember if I baptized anybody else at Corinth"

It just strikes me as an interesting statement, considering his learning and how sharp his mind was.

Let's remember the context of his statements: in-fighting in the church @ Corinth over who's teachers were the best. All the bickering over (perhaps paedo/credo baptism?)was jeopardizing the life of the church and proclamation of the Gospel. Paul's point is dividing over baptism is not as important as preaching the gospel. (Hmmmm, sound familiar?!)

1 Corinthians 1:10--17
Divisions in the Church
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I follow Paul," or "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Cephas," or "I follow Christ." Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.


Kinda reminds me of things like: "I follow Van Til," or "I follow Gentry," or "I follow Bahnsen," or "I follow ______________ ."

:book2:

Robin
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
The "eloquent wisdom" reference in v. 17 is pointing to those "super apostles" teachers who were showmen...show-offs, arrogant, self-confident and witty in their expounding.

That reference should put us on-guard against "showmen" like Doug Wilson or Vincent Cheung, et al. Impressed with their own eloquence, " they "empty the cross of Christ of its power!"

:detective:

r.

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Robin]
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by Robin
All the bickering over (perhaps paedo/credo baptism?)was jeopardizing the life of the church and proclamation of the Gospel.

I don't even think paedobaptism is that old -- it's part of the early medieval church...
:bigsmile:

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Puritanhead]
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Does anyone have other examples of Paul demonstrating his finiteness (it would be helpful in an argument I am pursuing).

One other example:

2 Corinthians 12:2-3

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows -- such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man -- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows."
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Originally posted by Robin
All the bickering over (perhaps paedo/credo baptism?)was jeopardizing the life of the church and proclamation of the Gospel.

I don't even think paedobaptism is that old -- it's part of the early medieval church...
:bigsmile:

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Puritanhead]

Obviously, it was not the same argument, BUT he IS implying that his readers were getting HUNG-UP on baptism...so much that it was risking the Gospel.

THIS is the point!

r.
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by poimen
Does anyone have other examples of Paul demonstrating his finiteness (it would be helpful in an argument I am pursuing).

One other example:

2 Corinthians 12:2-3

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago -- whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows -- such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man -- whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows."

Finitude? It's better (I think) to emphasize humanity.

The above verse seems to express wonder and humility NOT forgetfulness. Oh, and I just love this one....

Gal. 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

Space doesn't permit the reprint of Galatians here...but one must read it from beginning to end to detect the attitude, tone and urgency Paul has for his beloved congregation in Galatia. Though he loves them, he is seriously vexed by their semi-apostasy. Like Luther, Paul is very earthy in his language; openly exasperated, furious, heart-broken. He pulls rank by stating his qualifications of authority; rebukes yet encourages. By chapter 5, he's overwhelmed with outrage.

Imagine if a pastor in our time spoke this way? ??? Is it loving to tell someone (after having yelled at them) in danger of hellfire to "go ahead and cut-it-off"? I wonder what Paul would say to the FV guys?

:cool:

r.
 

BJClark

Puritan Board Doctor
--All the bickering over (perhaps paedo/credo baptism?)was jeopardizing the life of the church and proclamation of the Gospel. --

I don't even think paedobaptism is that old -- it's part of the early medieval church...
:bigsmile:


Obviously, it was not the same argument, BUT he IS implying that his readers were getting HUNG-UP on baptism...so much that it was risking the Gospel.

THIS is the point!




Puritanhead,

Neither can say for sure that paedobaptism is NOT that old -- can you? Either way, it's an assumption. I take the assumption some of the households that were baptised had infant children. It sounds as if you make the assumption that none of them did. (there in lies the underlying difference of belief (it would appear) when looking at the words "their entire household" was baptised


but Robin, I agree, it's the same arguement and really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

As the thief on the cross was NEVER baptised at all after coming to Faith in Christ while He hung on the cross, I mean, the Bible doesn't say the man was removed from the cross He hung on just so that he could go to water and be Baptised as a Believer.

And looking at Pauls words, it would seem to me, that Paul was not concerned about if a person 'was baptised" or not, but more concerned with if they understood Salvation through Christ alone.

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by BJClark]

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by BJClark]
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
Another clue to Paul's humanity in his writing:

2 Corinthians 5:13

If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God...

In chapter 5, Paul first establishes our ultimate goal: heaven; then explains our mission (evangelism): to be ambassadors of the "message of reconciliation."

I love Paul's humility and sense of humor....

;)

r.
 

biblelighthouse

Puritan Board Junior
Speaking of forgetfulness, I have long been amused by the author of Hebrews. In Hebrews 2:6, for instance, it says:

"It has been testified somewhere, 'What is man, that you are mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him?' "

This quote is in Psalms 8:4. But the author of Hebrews didn't say it was written by "the Psalmist" or "David". Rather, he just said, "It has been testified somewhere . . ." :bigsmile:

Of course, you and I do that all the time. We say, "I know it says somewhere in the Bible that . . ." But it just cracks me up to see this statement inspired by the Holy Spirit in Scripture itself. Of course the Holy Spirit could have inspired the author to say he was quoting from David, the Psalmist, etc. But he just said that his quote is written "somewhere".

I have no doubt that God has a sense of humor. :)

[Edited on 9-11-2005 by biblelighthouse]
 

just_grace

Puritan Board Freshman
Circumstances...

Originally posted by blhowes
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

I was just wondering if anybody has any thoughts about these verses? It almost seems like, in verses 14 and 16, that he's saying, "I baptized Crispus and Gaius, and also the household of Stephanas. Other than them, I can't remember if I baptized anybody else at Corinth"

It just strikes me as an interesting statement, considering his learning and how sharp his mind was.

There is no mystery, you just have to look deeper.

The Gospel is True and the Way to Life. Never doubt anything the Bible says, just try to comprehend it.

It's a bit like listening to a personal phone call half way through...we do not know all the facts.

The Gospel though, is as clear as crystal.
 

Poimen

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Originally posted by biblelighthouse
Speaking of forgetfulness, I have long been amused by the author of Hebrews. In Hebrews 2:6, for instance, it says:

"It has been testified somewhere, 'What is man, that you are mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him?' "

This quote is in Psalms 8:4. But the author of Hebrews didn't say it was written by "the Psalmist" or "David". Rather, he just said, "It has been testified somewhere . . ." :bigsmile:

Of course, you and I do that all the time. We say, "I know it says somewhere in the Bible that . . ." But it just cracks me up to see this statement inspired by the Holy Spirit in Scripture itself. Of course the Holy Spirit could have inspired the author to say he was quoting from David, the Psalmist, etc. But he just said that his quote is written "somewhere".

I have no doubt that God has a sense of humor. :)

[Edited on 9-11-2005 by biblelighthouse]

Isn't it interesting as well that later on he remembers that the author of Psalm 95 is David (Hebrews 4:7) and then also states that this is the Holy Spirit speaking. (Hebrews 3:7) - Helpful verse to use when debating JWs: Can a non-person speak?
 
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