The Arminian "god" is not Worshippable

Discussion in 'A Puritan's Mind Updates' started by C. Matthew McMahon, Feb 8, 2006.

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  1. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    The Arminian "god" is not Worshippable

    The contemporary church today is not only accepting Arminius’ teaching, but running after it, selling it in their Christian bookstores (making a profit on heresy), teaching it in their seminaries (so that young and upcoming ministers affect the congregation they will one day pastor), and preaching it from their pulpits to the layman who trusts their pastor’s every word. Arminius taught the secular man’s religion – a religion of works by personal merit – and America is eating it up. Dr. John Owen called it the “brain child” of wickedness. Dr. Jonathan Edwards called it “deep darkness.” Rev. Augustus Toplady called it the “Road back to Roman Catholicism”. Westminster Divine Dr. Robert Leighton called it “the last and greatest monster of the man of sin”. Rev. Christopher Ness called it an “abomination” and “chambers of imagery” (or fabrications). This writer, in like mind, calls it heresy. Suitably, the worship of this “other god” that Arminius created is summarized biblically as idolatry.

    More here...

    The god of Arminianism is Not Worshippable
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2018
  2. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritan Board Doctor

    I guess I'm not willing to label every Christian, other than 5-point Calvinists, as heretics. :candle:
     
  3. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    I have no problem calling them heretics. It's not damnable heresy for all of them as the article states..

     
  4. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    Bravo Matt....BRAVO! this is easily my favorite article of yours and I am sending the link to it to every Arminian friend I know!

    :amen: This was my problem the same as it remains the problem of many people I know. Just because a pastor, TV evangelist, best selling author, etc. claims something and says it comes from the bible is not reason enough to believe it.

    Sadly I hear this all of the time from many who claim to be God fearing Christians. They can't even begin to see how those two things conflict. How can you be a God fearing Christian yet believe whole heartedly that God's will depends on the decisions of men? :banghead:

    I hear this all of the time as well. It is said with pride even! God will not violate your free will!!!:um:
     
  5. Puritanhead

    Puritanhead Puritan Board Professor

    Spurgeon's Rendition of the Arminian's Prayer
    :D
     
  6. Bladestunner316

    Bladestunner316 Puritan Board Doctor

    :ditto:
     
  7. Semper Fidelis

    Semper Fidelis 2 Timothy 2:24-25 Staff Member

    WOW! That is a powerful quote.
     
  8. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritan Board Doctor

    All heresy is damnable. By making a distinction between "damnable" heresy and "non-damnable" heresy, we simply show that we're not really sure of what heresy is... and it reveals that we're wielding a theological broadsword rather than a theolgoical scalpel.

    If anything but 5-point Calvinism is really heresy, then this means that those who hold to anything but 5-point Calvinism are damned.
     
  9. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    I've not made up my mind but I think it is possible that those who do not see the error in it may be.
     
  10. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritan Board Doctor

    May be what? Damned?
     
  11. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritan Board Doctor

    May be what? Damned?
    So Bruce Ware is a heretic? :banghead:
     
  12. tcalbrecht

    tcalbrecht Puritan Board Junior

    I think this article would be more forceful if you included some actual quotes from Arminius and the Remonstrants on the key points.
     
  13. non dignus

    non dignus Puritan Board Sophomore

    Great piece, Dr. Matt!

    Arminians simply do not worship the same God as we. Does anyone feel uncomfortable praying with an Arminian? I do! What should be our response when we find ourselves in that predicament?

    I know this sort of speculation is fraught with pitfalls but I can't help wondering about the spiritual state of a life-long Arminian "super-teacher" ('Doctor' is too strong a word) who has been exposed to the doctrines of grace and rejects them.

    "To whom much is given, much is required."
     
  14. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    No idea who that is, but possibly yes. I believe I was all the years that I believed that nonsense as is everyone who taught it to me.
     
  15. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    You know, I really struggled not to add those in. It would not be hard, but then, I want people to deal with Biblical ideas rather than a "scholarly" article that deals with all thier quotes and the refutation of those quotes.
     
  16. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Arminianism is heresy; all who hold to it are heretics and rightfully will perish. However, as I have said before many times, I have never met a textbook Arminian. I don't believe they exist today. There are strains of people whose theology is in error. The extent of that error will determine where that person is salvifically. An eight year old whom is simply trusting in Christ alone to bring about the ends described in scripture, but knows little about the forensiology of the atonement or is tangled up in the idea that saying a prayer to God at the moment the HS moves them may quite possibly be one of Christs elect. I would not call this person an Arminian but an uneducated person. The bible calls us to study; this implies that as we study, we learn. A person whom has studied and rejected the Calvinist truths in exchange for the Arminiast lies, is heretical and is perishing even now.
     
  17. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    That is pretty much how I feel and the point I wanted to make. There are many still learning, as I was and in many ways still am.
     
  18. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    The question remains, how much does a person need to know to be converted? Regeneration is a work of the HS and can occur whilst the person knows very little. Conversion however, requires certain ducks to be in a row.
     
  19. ReformedWretch

    ReformedWretch Puritan Board Doctor

    But we can't know who has been converted until they show some signs of regeneration correct? I showed signs of conversion for YEARS but believed deeply in an Arminian god who allowed me to freely choose Him or not. I believed in the god who would never interfere in anyone's free will and wanted ALL to be saved.

    I honestly do not believe I would have entered Heaven had I died believing that goofiness.
     
  20. raderag

    raderag Puritan Board Sophomore

    Scott, please don't take offense, but this is a huge cop out on your part. I think you are saying this to escape the obvious logical conclusion of your view that Arminianism is damnable heresy. Just step up to the plate and say that Arminians are damned heretics. Now, if your experience leads you to question the wisdom of this understanding, perhaps you need to reevaluate your understanding of heresy.

    I take great exception to you saying that you have never met a "textbook Arminian". I believe that synergism is the natural understanding of man and God, and that it permeates almost all religion. Furthermore, I have met many Arminians that well understand their theological system, and fully embrace it. I have no idea how many are regenerate, but I believe many are. Perhaps the problem is that the Church is assailed by the Pelagian heresy, and there is no ecclesiastical structure to deal with it. Perhaps many regenerate have been carried away by such heresy, but even more so the unregenerate have embraced it to the end of it hardening of their heart.

    [Edited on 2-9-2006 by raderag]
     
  21. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    We can't know who has been regenerated until they show signs of conversion, i.e. fruits. Even then our judgements can be skewed. The scriptures speak of wolves in sheeps clothing. This means that there will be people that look like believers........
     
  22. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    I clearly said that above in my initial post. Are you reading the posts?
    My wisdom is based upon experience and study. I have never met a person whom holds to Arminianism like I hold to calvinism. We openly say, "I am a Calvinist". This equates to the fact that we understand what Calvin espoused about Gods word systematically. Have you ewver met someone whom said this about Arminius?

    I haven't!

    True.

    These people are unregenerated. I'm not talking of these. Can one be reformed yet hold to only three points? No! Some might even go to the extent of saying that if one does not hold to all 5 points, they are yet unregenerated/converted. Ask some of these people you speak of to recite that which was penned by the Remonstrants. They may not even know who or what Remonstrants are. Does this remove them from the inert responsibility plaguing themselves, no! Men are responsible. However, what I am pressing here is that I was regenerated under Calvary Chapel preaching. I stepped up to the plate because I was told that "I" needed to. Was it interpreted as synergistic? Absolutely! Did I understand what synergism was, no. God still chose to use that day to bring me unto himself. I did not stay there long. I was obedient to study to show myself approved, a rightful workman of God.

    Brett, you are contradicting yourself here. You admit, men are regenerated under this premise? One cannot be regenerate and heretical at the same time.



    [Edited on 2-9-2006 by Scott Bushey]
     
  23. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate

    :restraining....restraining...to enter argument before me reads article:

    :p
     
  24. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritan Board Doctor

    Matt -
    Well, you've consigned virtually all non 5-point Calvinists to the abyss.
    What's next? A treatise demonstrating that all dispensationalists - even the ones like John MacArthur - are going to hell?
    After that, perhaps you would care to finish the job by demonstrating that only those who adhere to the WCF w/o exception, as interpreted by the RPCGA, are saved. :um:
     
  25. Peter

    Peter Puritan Board Junior

    Would any Calvinistic Church allow an Arminian into church communion? If someone within a Calvinistic church was found to have arminian views wouldn't they be censured?

    An Arminian is a heretic, and Calvinists are not to associate with them ecclesiastically. We are commanded to mark and avoid those who walk contrary to the doctrine we have received even if they are called "Brothers", ie, born again and saved by Jesus.

    [Edited on 2-9-2006 by Peter]
     
  26. raderag

    raderag Puritan Board Sophomore

    But, then you posit Arminianism as a pure hypothetical and imaginary system. You haven't really met one. That sure is convenient.

    In fact, I have met several. In fact I have a friend that knows Calvinism about as well as most Calvinist that I know who happens to be Wesleyan. He holds dearly to everything about this theology. He believes that Dordt was unfairly tried, and believes that when the Church comes to its senses and holds to a higher ecclesiology, Dordt can be retried.

    Well, you really need to get out more, because they are all over the place. There are at least as many knowledgeable Arminians as Calvinists.

    Well, what you said sounds like an excuse for all Arminians. I just think the caveat that you haven´t met a real Arminian needs to be axed. Either, you need to meet one, or you just need to realize they are more numerous than this statement would indicate. Personally, I believe you are reducing these issues past absurdity as it requires something more that knowledge of the Gospel for justification. While the Arminian system clearly distorts the correct understanding of the Gospel, it is contained within the system of doctrine.

    I am not contradicting myself, but rather I refuse to put this issue in a modernistic reduction. Objectively, all forms of Pelagianism are heresy. What that means might not be as simple as you would have it. I think the implications of heresy are both ecclesiastical as well as soteriological. It is heresy because of how it divides the Church, and because it can lead one to put their trust in a false god. That doesn´t mean that everyone who logically embraces Arminianism is not trusting Christ alone. Unless we turst Christ with our intellect alone. I agree with Matthew that the Arminian god is a false one, but then again so is the god of any system that is in error. The god of someone that happens to hold to this heresy may or may not be the true God. Any error in theology is due to a misunderstanding of who God is, and therefore could be say to worship a false god. Arminians can have the right Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, can believe in justification by faith, and can even believe that salvation is from grace. The same cannot be said about Muslims, Mormons, and even some Presbyterians.

    [Edited on 2-9-2006 by raderag]
     
  27. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Brett,
    Am I misunderstanding you? Here's what you said:
    When you refer to 'many', you are referring to what? Arminians? Or people that have an erred theology?
     
  28. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Scott previosuly wrote:
    Brett responds:
    I never said that. Show me where I said that??? Arminianism is real. There are strains of error today, but none are pure bred/Remonstrant Arminians. Arminianism is heresy and those whom hold to it will perish. However, it would take exposure to both theological systems and then subsequent rejection of the correct system to rightly label someone Arminian. As I have clearly said, I was regenerated in a Calvary Chapel. My conversion was schizophrenically radical! The old Scott Bushey literally died that day. Was I Arminian? Well, lets just say I was ignorant of the total truth of Gods word. That did not make me a heretic or banish me to hades. God is longsuffering. infants whom God regenerates and convert at early ages does not perish, is not heretical for lack of understanding.

    I have never met any of these types outside of Roman Catholics.

    Brett previously wrote:
    Scott responds in a gentlemanly type manner:
    Brett reduces the conversation to personal attacks:

    Brett continues:
    Not an excuse. The benefit of the doubt for them whom have yet to learn Gods ways. The bible calls men to study. This mandate proves that knowledge is given to them that seek it and that knowledge is a building process. Neither you or I knew the things we know today. You had no idea of forensic justification when you were regenerated.

    I know what an Arminian is and i know what error is. There is a big difference between a practicing Arminian and someone whom is in error for lack of knowledge. There is as well a difference between error and heresy. I never met someone whom held to error once exposed to truth by Gods spirit.

    Really? Is that what the bible says? I believe the scriptures say that if one will believe they will be saved! Accept, receive, believe, repent............
     
  29. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate

    :ditto: and :amen:
     
  30. Jeff_Bartel

    Jeff_Bartel Puritan Board Graduate

    Arminians believe in works righteousness, and believing that they have saving faith contradicts not only scripture, but the WCF:

    Westminster Confession of Faith
    14:2


    Westminster Larger Catechism
    Question 72: What is justifying faith?
     
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