the Devil's children
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Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
1 John 3
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
Ianterrell
Puritan Board Sophomore
Matthew 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
and then down in 36-43:
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
and then down in 36-43:
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:c34a68f808][i:c34a68f808]Originally posted by Preach[/i:c34a68f808]
Are any children (at conception and until regenerated) children of the devil? If so, based upon the Scriptures, which children are the devil's children, and which are not? Thanks. [/quote:c34a68f808]
1 John 3
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
Are any children (at conception and until regenerated) children of the devil? If so, based upon the Scriptures, which children are the devil's children, and which are not? Thanks. [/quote:c34a68f808]
1 John 3
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another,
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
I think John teaches pretty clearly that if you're not a "child of God" you're the Devil's child. To me, this makes a clear discinction between Christians and non-Christians, with little room for 'in between' or 'lukewarm' people..
Let me ask it plainly:Are children of believers the devil's children? Are covenant babies, who come forth spewing lies, conceived in sin and born in iniquity, whose thoughts and intents are evil continually (I'm assuming this applies to covenant children), yet the covenant children are holy. So, is there a third category of people? Thanks.
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:06a3f7b19b][i:06a3f7b19b]Originally posted by Preach[/i:06a3f7b19b]
Let me ask it plainly:Are children of believers the devil's children? Are covenant babies, who come forth spewing lies, conceived in sin and born in iniquity, whose thoughts and intents are evil continually (I'm assuming this applies to covenant children), yet the covenant children are holy. So, is there a third category of people? Thanks. [/quote:06a3f7b19b]
In the absolute sense, there are only two yes, the regenerate being God's children, the unregenerate still children of wrath and the devils children.
But as a visible church, we cannot operate on the absolute sense since only God can see the heart. We must make presumptions. For adults we presume they are God's children based upon the promises of God and upon their profession of faith (which includes their works). For infants, we presume they are God's children because they are in the covenant relation with Him and because of the promises of God that they are in fact seperate from the heathen to be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and therefore holy.
This doesn't mean that we don't teach them about the absolute sense. As the children grow, they must be pressed to examine themselves, as they are taught the whole counsel of God in the Word, as to whether they are little pharisees or rebels (still by nature children of wrath) or if they are in fact trusting in Christ (truly God's children and regenerate), just the same as we do when we bring the whole counsel of God to the adult.
[Edited on 7-8-2004 by puritansailor]
Let me ask it plainly:Are children of believers the devil's children? Are covenant babies, who come forth spewing lies, conceived in sin and born in iniquity, whose thoughts and intents are evil continually (I'm assuming this applies to covenant children), yet the covenant children are holy. So, is there a third category of people? Thanks. [/quote:06a3f7b19b]
In the absolute sense, there are only two yes, the regenerate being God's children, the unregenerate still children of wrath and the devils children.
But as a visible church, we cannot operate on the absolute sense since only God can see the heart. We must make presumptions. For adults we presume they are God's children based upon the promises of God and upon their profession of faith (which includes their works). For infants, we presume they are God's children because they are in the covenant relation with Him and because of the promises of God that they are in fact seperate from the heathen to be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and therefore holy.
This doesn't mean that we don't teach them about the absolute sense. As the children grow, they must be pressed to examine themselves, as they are taught the whole counsel of God in the Word, as to whether they are little pharisees or rebels (still by nature children of wrath) or if they are in fact trusting in Christ (truly God's children and regenerate), just the same as we do when we bring the whole counsel of God to the adult.
[Edited on 7-8-2004 by puritansailor]
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
Maybe I'm dumb, but you're not saying that John is referring to [i:13e7274046]literal[/i:13e7274046] children in 1 John, are you?
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:91ab82a786][i:91ab82a786]Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia[/i:91ab82a786]
Maybe I'm dumb, but you're not saying that John is referring to [i:91ab82a786]literal[/i:91ab82a786] children in 1 John, are you? [/quote:91ab82a786]
Not necessarily. John is giving us the description of God's children, what they look like, how they behave differently from teh devil's children. But as human beings, and church members, we cannot see what God sees. God sees the hearts of all and know whether or not someone is in fact his child or not. But we do not have that ability to see the heart. We must make a presumption based upon the promises of God and the outward fruit.
When we see someone professing faith and "practicing righteousness," then we may safely presume that he is a child of God. But he could just be a pharisee. We don't know until he gives us more evidence in his profession whether that is is true stte or not.
And it is similar with children. As they grow, we expect them to exhibit the fruits of regeneration because they are set apart from the world as God's holy people too. They must "practice roghteousness" as John indicates in the text. If they do, to the best of their ability, and make a profession of faith in Christ, then we continue to presume that they are in fact children of God in the sense that John describes here. If they prove otherwise by rebellion, then we rebuke, admonish, and exhort them to faith and repentence, continually bringing them back to the promises and obligations God requires of them.
Maybe I'm dumb, but you're not saying that John is referring to [i:91ab82a786]literal[/i:91ab82a786] children in 1 John, are you?
[/quote:91ab82a786]Not necessarily. John is giving us the description of God's children, what they look like, how they behave differently from teh devil's children. But as human beings, and church members, we cannot see what God sees. God sees the hearts of all and know whether or not someone is in fact his child or not. But we do not have that ability to see the heart. We must make a presumption based upon the promises of God and the outward fruit.
When we see someone professing faith and "practicing righteousness," then we may safely presume that he is a child of God. But he could just be a pharisee. We don't know until he gives us more evidence in his profession whether that is is true stte or not.
And it is similar with children. As they grow, we expect them to exhibit the fruits of regeneration because they are set apart from the world as God's holy people too. They must "practice roghteousness" as John indicates in the text. If they do, to the best of their ability, and make a profession of faith in Christ, then we continue to presume that they are in fact children of God in the sense that John describes here. If they prove otherwise by rebellion, then we rebuke, admonish, and exhort them to faith and repentence, continually bringing them back to the promises and obligations God requires of them.
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