The Earth: The Center of the?

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[quote:924d61f4a7][i:924d61f4a7]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:924d61f4a7]
Remember too, Ian and Ace, that a boundless universe with a centre is just as odious as a wobbling universe. [/quote:924d61f4a7]


odious = Arousing or meriting strong dislike, aversion, or intense displeasure



how so?

[Edited on 6-11-2004 by ace]

 

[JohnV]

To the intellect.

 

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[quote:e9ec5cfa0c][i:e9ec5cfa0c]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:e9ec5cfa0c]
To the intellect. [/quote:e9ec5cfa0c]



do you mean "intellect" as in the intellectual? or "intellect" as any person's capacity for knowledge?



but still, how so? why?


why would an intellectual person consider it a bad thing to admit we have not yet found the ends of the universe? or even know that ends exists? or even how it would end if it is finite? if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? etc...

why are these unanswered questions "odious" to the intellect or the intellectual?


or, if this is not what you are implying - then why is a wobbling universe or a boundless universe "odious" to anyone? why concern do we have as far as the design goes - can't we just accept God's creation as wonderful, pleasing, and happily fascinating?

(i'm just thinking out loud - trying to figure out what it is that you meant)

 

[JohnV]

[quote:fde756c3b7][i:fde756c3b7]Originally posted by ace[/i:fde756c3b7]
[quote:fde756c3b7][i:fde756c3b7]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:fde756c3b7]
To the intellect. [/quote:fde756c3b7]



do you mean "intellect" as in the intellectual? or "intellect" as any person's capacity for knowledge?



but still, how so? why?


why would an intellectual person consider it a bad thing to admit we have not yet found the ends of the universe? or even know that ends exists? or even how it would end if it is finite? if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? etc...

why are these unanswered questions "odious" to the intellect or the intellectual?


or, if this is not what you are implying - then why is a wobbling universe or a boundless universe "odious" to anyone? why concern do we have as far as the design goes - can't we just accept God's creation as wonderful, pleasing, and happily fascinating?

(i'm just thinking out loud - trying to figure out what it is that you meant) [/quote:fde756c3b7]

Ace:
Look at Dan's argument carefully. It is a wonderfully articulated argument, in that it says little, while at the same time it says a lot. All he says is that if the earth is the centre, then that would mean that the universe must be wobbling around it. He doesn't give a vlaue judgment on that scenario. The impact is of it is great. The universe, as great as it is perceived to be at present, doing a wobble routine around our comparatively insignicantly little earth; it just boggles the mind. The mind will not accept it.

In the same way, if the universe is theoretically infinite in every drection, then "centre" is inconceivable. The mind cannot accept that either.

But neither of these are obviated by the fact that the intellect does not accept them. For we have the same difficulty with the concept of Trinity, but we all do believe that. And once we know more about it, it becomes much more reasonable, to the point that the idea of Trinity becomes irrefutable, from a Christian's point of view. It may yet be that the earth is the centre of the universe, and that the wobble effect is non-existent, that it's just a smokescreen. And limitless space may still have a centre.

For example, if the earth is the third planet from the sun, and the larger planets orbit at a further distance, and there is a Pluto on the outer rim, and the earth is the only habitable planet, all these things being carefully put in place, then, though the sun is the central location of the solar system, the earth is yet the focal point of the whole system. It's like a man's heart: it's not in the very centre of his body, but it is central for a lot of things. Are not scientists looking not just for planets, but for planets in a particular orbit in relation to their sun? So in a sense one could say that the earth is the centre of the solar system, for all things are in place to sustain life on earth.

The universe does not have to wobble around the earth for the earth to be central to the universe. Nor does the earth have to be in the exact centre for the earth to be central to the universe. Of course you know that I am talking about the Biblical importance of the earth, in that God deigned to send His Son to live among us, and to die for us, in order that He may demonstrate His great love for us. He also wrote His Word for us, and gave us an account of the beginning of all things created, as if the earth was His focal point for the entire universe. It is as if all things exist just for us.

I am not going to be accused of allowing my ego to run amok for saying these things, and believing them. For I am not self-elevated by the consideration of these things, but rather humbled by the extent and value of His boundless love for us. In my estimation it is less that all the universe exists for our sake than that God sent His Son for our sake. The latter is a greater wonder, a greater importance, a greater blessing, and inspires a greater sense of humble awe.

And that brings me back to the wobble argument. It is so beautifully simple, that it just deflates all our argument either way, to my mind; and put us right back to where we should be, on an erath that needs to be third from the sun, and on an orbit at its' present rate, around a sun at its' present size and intensity, as well as needing the moon and stars, etc.

 

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ok john?!
i'll give you the last word on this one...

though it all still seems a bit "wobbly" to me! :bs2: