The Error and Danger of Premillenialism

[Chad Hutson]

No, the OP didn't mention dispensationalism at all. The OP is concerned with premillennialism. Not the same thing at all.

Duly noted. Having read down through the posts before I replied, I crossed up the OP with other responses. I should have quoted one of the posts dealing with dispensationalism.
I am very aware of historic premillennialism and its difference with dispensational premillennialism.
I made a mistake...probably from the fatigue of running like a chicken with its head cut off while trying to pastor a flock that can't gather, tend to the sick and dying, and remotely instruct the Christians under my charge.
I beg your forgiveness and ask for your patience.

 

[bookslover]

You are confusing premillennialism with dispensationalism.

Yes. See my post #24.

 

[bookslover]

Duly noted. Having read down through the posts before I replied, I crossed up the OP with other responses. I should have quoted one of the posts dealing with dispensationalism.
I am very aware of historic premillennialism and its difference with dispensational premillennialism.
I made a mistake...probably from the fatigue of running like a chicken with its head cut off while trying to pastor a flock that can't gather, tend to the sick and dying, and remotely instruct the Christians under my charge.
I beg your forgiveness and ask for your patience.

There's nothing to forgive, Chad. Honest mistake.

 

[Rescued]

Darrell Bock, a premillennialist, disagrees with you. As does Craig Blaising.

They still hold to the false teaching that after Christ returns there will be a literal 1000 kingdom prior to the final judgment, do they not?

 

[RamistThomist]

They still hold to the false teaching that after Christ returns there will be a literal 1000 kingdom prior to the final judgment, do they not?

That's the fallacy of a loaded question. Have you stopped beating your wife?

But removing the logical fallacy from your question, I think we can approach it this way:
1) Yes, they hold to a millennial kingdom.
2) Nonetheless, Bock and Blaising are very clear that the kingdom begins with Jesus.

 

[Citizen]

Going back to the original post, are there tangible inherent dangers in simply subscribing to a premillennial eschatology? Even if we can demonstrate that it is false, is it fair to suggest that it would necessarily lead to some horrible result?

Not suggesting that a misguided eschatology could be used to support dangerous theology and action, but think the same could be said for an amillennial outlook (e.g. Antisemitism).

 

[spunky01]

I thought Dr Boice was Historic Premillennial? In that case he would have rejected Dispensationalism. In any case, one cannot subscribe to the Westminster Standards and be Dispensational.

Before moving to Historical Premillennialism, Dr. Boice did hold to dispensationalism. At least with regard to eschatology. He even wrote a book with a dispensational view before his switch and persuasion to historic premill. The book is called "The Last and Future World". It is out of print now.

 

[Delahunt]

Going back to the original post, are there tangible inherent dangers in simply subscribing to a premillennial eschatology? Even if we can demonstrate that it is false, is it fair to suggest that it would necessarily lead to some horrible result?

Not suggesting that a misguided eschatology could be used to support dangerous theology and action, but think the same could be said for an amillennial outlook (e.g. Antisemitism).

Yes I am curious to hear the dangers of holding to a premillennial eschatology, given that this is my current position (although quite sympathetic to the amillennial position).

 

[RamistThomist]

Going back to the original post, are there tangible inherent dangers in simply subscribing to a premillennial eschatology? Even if we can demonstrate that it is false, is it fair to suggest that it would necessarily lead to some horrible result?

Not suggesting that a misguided eschatology could be used to support dangerous theology and action, but think the same could be said for an amillennial outlook (e.g. Antisemitism).

Exactly. We can look at each view and see how it leads to error.

1) Postmillennialism --> Social Gospel Liberalism
2) Amillennialism --> Liberal Allegorism; anti-semitism
3) Premillennialism --> Sum of all evils in human history

 

[Rescued]

And yet the late great James Boice held to a dispensational eschatology. He said he came to that position after studying the minor prophets.

This is conclusion one comes to when they allow the OT tell us what the NT has to mean. It should be the other way around. The OT was type and shadow, the NT is the substance. Clear passages from Christ and His apostles tell us what the OT prophecies have to mean. Passages in the OT that speak of a kingdom on earth are referring to the new heaven and earth, not a halfway renewed earth during some future Jewish dispensation.

 

[Rescued]

Exactly. We can look at each view and see how it leads to error.

1) Postmillennialism --> Social Gospel Liberalism
2) Amillennialism --> Liberal Allegorism; anti-semitism
3) Premillennialism --> Sum of all evils in human history

Amillenialism only leads to anti-semitism if you don't even understand your own position as an amillenialist. True, historic amillenialists understand that the promises made to Israel were intended by God to be realized and fulfilled in the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Apostle makes it clear that all who therefore are in Christ by faith are the true Israel and the inheritors of the promises, both Jew and Gentile. God has broken down the middle wall of partition and made the two peoples into one body, never to be separated again. For this to be undone would require the dividing of Christ Himself in two.

"Is Christ divided?"

I think not.

 

[Wretched Man]

Exactly. We can look at each view and see how it leads to error.

1) Postmillennialism --> Social Gospel Liberalism
2) Amillennialism --> Liberal Allegorism; anti-semitism
3) Premillennialism --> Sum of all evils in human history

Amillennialism --> Acceptance Christ is reigning and looking forward to immediate and eternal marriage with our Lord after death.

Premillennialism dangers: Undermining Christ's current reign (Matthew 28:18), confusion about going back to signs and shadows, failure to recognize the on-going warnings and signs prophesied, misplaced measures to overly protecting national Israel (*not antisemitism), and misleading Jews (and others) about their future and salvation.

*In my opinion, true antisemitism is deceiving a Jew by asserting that someday their nation will be restored to power and return to the Old Covenant practices.

 

[RamistThomist]

Amillennialism --> Acceptance Christ is reigning and looking forward to immediate and eternal marriage with our Lord after death.

Premillennialism dangers: Undermining Christ's current reign (Matthew 28:18), confusion about going back to signs and shadows, failure to recognize the on-going warnings and signs prophesied, misplaced measures to overly protecting national Israel (*not antisemitism), and misleading Jews (and others) about their future and salvation.

*In my opinion, true antisemitism is deceiving a Jew by asserting that someday their nation will be restored to power and return to the Old Covenant practices.

My post was tongue-in-cheek, noting you can play the same game with any of the views.

 

[RamistThomist]

Amillenialism only leads to anti-semitism if you don't even understand your own position as an amillenialist. True, historic amillenialists understand that the promises made to Israel were intended by God to be realized and fulfilled in the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Apostle makes it clear that all who therefore are in Christ by faith are the true Israel and the inheritors of the promises, both Jew and Gentile. God has broken down the middle wall of partition and made the two peoples into one body, never to be separated again. For this to be undone would require the dividing of Christ Himself in two.

"Is Christ divided?"

I think not.

I don't think you grasped my post. I wasn't saying that amillennialism is anti-semitic (though I do think many partial preterists are). I was simply noting that if we are critiquing a view based on how people down the road applied that view, then any charge is fair game.

 

[bookslover]

The thing about eschatology is this:

The church, over the last nearly 2,000 years, has teased out the three basic positions - premillennialism, postmillennialism, and amillennialism - from the same biblical material.

This fact should serve as a hint that we don't know as much about the subject as we like to think we do. So, whatever position you hold to, hold it sincerely, but hold it lightly, because we could all be wrong.

 

[jwithnell]

I found it interesting is all. Vern Poythress has written quite a bit on dispensationalism and I have always appreciated his voice on this topic. I don't think the content of the article contradicts what you wrote in any way.

One thing I would be interested in learning more about is the recovery of covenant theology within Presbyterian denominations. I had heard that the doctrine had to be recovered and that for a period in time it was all but forgotten. I believe it was Edmund Clowney who said his first Bible given to him by his Presbyterian Church was a Scofield Reference Bible, which I found fascinating. This always made me want to read more about the influence of dispensationalism in Presbyterian Churches during the last century. Perhaps a historian on the board can shed some light on this.

Presbyterians never "lost" covenant theology, at least not the strain that comes through old Princeton and the modern seminaries that retained that teaching. Indeed, the establishment of a Biblical Theology Chair at Princeton ~1898 did a great deal to increase the church's understanding on the topic and was at the root of the teaching of people like O Palmer Robertson and Greg Beale. If anything, the contours of covenant theology were clarified as the twentieth century progressed.

[QUOTE="Rescued, post: 1241511, member:
Failure to warn God's people of the identity of antichrist is willful ignorance. Also, to ascribe to the future and a future age that which nobody would ever see until the end of time defeats the purpose of the Revelation, which was a book of comfort to the saints in all ages, and that which would give discernment and understanding to God's people in the midst of persecution.
[/QUOTE]
Such a perspective ignores the tremendous sufferings of the early church, before the pope was established. Peter and John in their epistles were desperately trying to preserve and prepare the church for suffering. The antichrist John identifies is anyone or any institution that attacks God's people. The pope in certain ages certainly was an antichrist, but how can someone like Nero or Stalin escape such a label?

 

[KGP]

Exactly. We can look at each view and see how it leads to error.

1) Postmillennialism --> Social Gospel Liberalism
2) Amillennialism --> Liberal Allegorism; anti-semitism
3) Premillennialism --> Sum of all evils in human history

I picked up on this immediately. Just some feedback, your intent was obvious to me.

 

[RamistThomist]

Failure to warn God's people of the identity of antichrist is willful ignorance. Also, to ascribe to the future and a future age that which nobody would ever see until the end of time defeats the purpose of the Revelation

Premillennialists fail to warn about the identity of Antichrist? Usually they are ridiculed for focusing on antichrist. Or maybe your real target is any eschatology that isn't historicist.

Per the second sentence, I might not be alive when Christ returns, so that part of Revelation must not be written for me.

 

[B.L.]

Presbyterians never "lost" covenant theology, at least not the strain that comes through old Princeton and the modern seminaries that retained that teaching. Indeed, the establishment of a Biblical Theology Chair at Princeton ~1898 did a great deal to increase the church's understanding on the topic and was at the root of the teaching of people like O Palmer Robertson and Greg Beale. If anything, the contours of covenant theology were clarified as the twentieth century progressed.

If I have the time I'll dig around to find the sources that informed the comment I made. I've heard it several times over that covenant theology needed to be rediscovered after falling on hard times.

As a matter of fact, J.V. Fesko's planned three-part series on covenant theology, the first of which was The Trinity and the Covenant of Redemption, was written with the express aim to "retrieve and recover classic Reformed covenant theology for the church."

This tangent runs the risk of derailing the thread further, so if I find anything further on this I'll message you it if interested.

Cheers.

 

[KGP]

Bottom line on eschatology - get your personal eschatology locked down. Become an EXPERT in your personal eschatology. Because your end is likely far more immanent than that of the church or this present age.

You will meet the resurrected Lord Jesus face to face, you will give an account of your life before him, your secrets will be made plainly manifest before the hosts of heaven. This will happen soon. SO: Repent. Confess sin and flee from it. Cut off the right hand, pluck out the eye, be zealous for good works, keep the Word of Christ and the gospel on your lips, and own him boldly before men while you may.

Then, maybe, you are ready to venture into deeper waters.

What point is having the right eschatology if you cannot adorn it with your life? Each person must answer whether there are more pressing matters at hand. Better to miss out on the finer details of eschatology in favor of a closer daily walk with Christ; I've seen enough people do it the other way and have been that person myself for a season.

CI Scofield has his name on thousands of bibles. But read about his life and you'll see a man who was not fit for church office. The same could be said for many other end times experts.

This reminder is not necessary for everyone I am sure, but it was one I needed at one time, and it might be for someone reading here.

 

[jwithnell]

If I have the time I'll dig around to find the sources that informed the comment I made. I've heard it several times over that covenant theology needed to be rediscovered after falling on hard times.

As a matter of fact, J.V. Fesko's planned three-part series on covenant theology, the first of which was The Trinity and the Covenant of Redemption, was written with the express aim to "retrieve and recover classic Reformed covenant theology for the church."

This tangent runs the risk of derailing the thread further, so if I find anything further on this I'll message you it if interested.

Cheers.

Dr. Fesko spent time in north Georgia where he would have had a number of PCUSA churches nearby that certainly abandoned covenant theology long ago. In Georgia you will also find older PCA churches that went to the new denomination to escape liberalism but were not moving toward a distinctively reformed position. In such a setting, covenant theology would certainly need to be reintroduced. I grew up in Georgia where dispensationalism and Hal Lindsey premillennialism are practically in the air one breathes.

 

[Citizen]

The thing about eschatology is this:

This fact should serve as a hint that we don't know as much about the subject as we like to think we do. So, whatever position you hold to, hold it sincerely, but hold it lightly, because we could all be wrong.

Bottom line on eschatology - get your personal eschatology locked down. Become an EXPERT in your personal eschatology. Because your end is likely far more immanent than that of the church or this present age.

You will meet the resurrected Lord Jesus face to face, you will give an account of your life before him, your secrets will be made plainly manifest before the hosts of heaven. This will happen soon. SO: Repent. Confess sin and flee from it. Cut off the right hand, pluck out the eye, be zealous for good works, keep the Word of Christ and the gospel on your lips, and own him boldly before men while you may.

Then, maybe, you are ready to venture into deeper waters.

What point is having the right eschatology if you cannot adorn it with your life? Each person must answer whether there are more pressing matters at hand. Better to miss out on the finer details of eschatology in favor of a closer daily walk with Christ; I've seen enough people do it the other way and have been that person myself for a season.

Amen, and amen.

I think the more eminent "danger" in all this is a feeling of self-satisfaction, followed by a determination to justify and re-justify ones own conclusion while pointing out the faults in that of another. Consider the benefits that could be reaped in devoting that time, energy, and intellect to the present.

Am NOT suggest eschatology is unworthy of consideration, but not at the expense of so much else, for the reasons others have already stated. Obviously, scores of men more intelligent (than me anyway) have find plenty of ways to interpret the source material. The 10 Commandments or the Gospels on the other hand.....

 

[Rescued]

Premillennialists fail to warn about the identity of Antichrist? Usually they are ridiculed for focusing on antichrist. Or maybe your real target is any eschatology that isn't historicist.

Per the second sentence, I might not be alive when Christ returns, so that part of Revelation must not be written for me.

One might be putting himself out on a limb by dogmatically saying, "this particular person or thing is antichrist and I would bet my life on it", but I would challenge you to show me something or someone other than the line of men known as the papacy and a false religion such as the Roman Catholic Church that better fits the collective description of the antichrist in the Word of Truth. To my knowledge nothing else within the last 2 millennia comes even close. Paul said the man of sin comes from the apostasy. There was an apostasy from the true church that resulted in the Roman church and papal system. The Roman beast looked to have been slain, but it was resurrected in the form of papacy, which was more dangerous than imperial Rome, because for many long centuries, the papacy wielded both the spiritual and the carnal sword and literally made the known world to own him as their lord and master, as god on earth. For over a thousand years, many millions were slain for their testimony against antichrist, having sealed it with their own blood.

I shudder to think of E.C.T. and the evangelical pastors who joined in calling the Pope a brother in Christ and the Romish system truly Christian. What spiritual fornication!

Yes the prophecies of Christ's return are for you, because we are to live every day of our life in anticipation of His return, watchful and sober, for we know not what hour our Lord is coming!

The only thing I'm interested in is the truth. And the prophecies of scripture were given to us not to speculate about the future, but for all saints in all centuries to be able to see the accuracy of the word of God and strengthen their faith. "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe." John 14:29

 

[Rescued]

Bottom line on eschatology - get your personal eschatology locked down. Become an EXPERT in your personal eschatology. Because your end is likely far more immanent than that of the church or this present age.

You will meet the resurrected Lord Jesus face to face, you will give an account of your life before him, your secrets will be made plainly manifest before the hosts of heaven. This will happen soon. SO: Repent. Confess sin and flee from it. Cut off the right hand, pluck out the eye, be zealous for good works, keep the Word of Christ and the gospel on your lips, and own him boldly before men while you may.

Then, maybe, you are ready to venture into deeper waters.

What point is having the right eschatology if you cannot adorn it with your life? Each person must answer whether there are more pressing matters at hand. Better to miss out on the finer details of eschatology in favor of a closer daily walk with Christ; I've seen enough people do it the other way and have been that person myself for a season.

CI Scofield has his name on thousands of bibles. But read about his life and you'll see a man who was not fit for church office. The same could be said for many other end times experts.

This reminder is not necessary for everyone I am sure, but it was one I needed at one time, and it might be for someone reading here.

Good admonition brother. But I began this thread not to pick on people's eschatology and to stick my chest out, but to provoke thought as to what many godly men consider to be a harmful doctrine taught in the church. One aspect of "godliness" that is often thrown out the window is to hold to good and sound doctrine. For a man can eschew evil all he wants in the grosser forms, such as idolatry, sexual immorality, drunkenness, etc. but once we have these things under our feet we need to pursue sound doctrine. Many speak today as though the truth cannot be known about the millennial question, or about many issues for that matter. One thing is for sure, from the writings of the apostles, there is no room for a carnal kingdom on earth of exactly 1000 years after Christ returns, at the end of which Satan leads a gigantic rebellion against the risen Christ, sitting on a literal throne over in Jerusalem. The word of God is plain and tells us that the Lord is coming to judge the world in righteousness and on that Day, there is no further opportunity for salvation, Jew or Gentile. We look for new heavens and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

 

[Rescued]

Amillennialism --> Acceptance Christ is reigning and looking forward to immediate and eternal marriage with our Lord after death.

Premillennialism dangers: Undermining Christ's current reign (Matthew 28:18), confusion about going back to signs and shadows, failure to recognize the on-going warnings and signs prophesied, misplaced measures to overly protecting national Israel (*not antisemitism), and misleading Jews (and others) about their future and salvation.

*In my opinion, true antisemitism is deceiving a Jew by asserting that someday their nation will be restored to power and return to the Old Covenant practices.

You said it brother! If we truly love someone, we tell them the truth. We don't tell them unbiblical falsehoods.

 

[RamistThomist]

Paul said the man of sin comes from the apostasy. There was an apostasy from the true church that resulted in the Roman church and papal system.

This is the fallacy of the undistributed middle premise. You have shown necessary conditions for the Antichrist (committed apostasy). You have confused that with sufficient conditions.

 

[RamistThomist]

Yes the prophecies of Christ's return are for you, because we are to live every day of our life in anticipation of His return, watchful and sober, for we know not what hour our Lord is coming!

Every premillennialist in the world admits that. I don't think you understood the reductio force of my statement.

 

[Rescued]

This is the fallacy of the undistributed middle premise. You have shown necessary conditions for the Antichrist (committed apostasy). You have confused that with sufficient conditions.

So then what is your stab at who antichrist, was, is, or will be?

 

[RamistThomist]

So then what is your stab at who antichrist, was, is, or will be?

I try not to speculate when doing eschatology. I'm not soft on Rome. I've been debating Catholics for almost two decades.

 

[Rescued]

I don't think you grasped my post. I wasn't saying that amillennialism is anti-semitic (though I do think many partial preterists are). I was simply noting that if we are critiquing a view based on how people down the road applied that view, then any charge is fair game.

You said we can look at each view and see how it leads to error. Then you said Amillennialism leads to anti-Semitism. I said this can only happen if the student of Amillennialism doesn't understand the view itself. I think you are the one not grasping what I say.

By the way, what is your millennial view? Do you care to share it brother? What is your timeline of events from the first coming of Christ to His second and then eternity? Do you believe in a 1000 year earthly reign of Christ over the Jews after He returns, before the eternal state begins?