The gift of faith.....Question.

[Dennis1963]

1 Cor 12:4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

This is the passage and highlighted is the verse.

Now the question I have is, what exactly is this gift of faith?

The reformed know the faith unto salvation is a gift from God, since man does not possess this of his own. So, it wouldn't make sense in this since it wouldn't be given "to another", but, "all the elect."

Personally I believe, and I also believe the reformed agree (?), that we cannot make God do certain things by how much faith we have. Another words, if we have a loved one who is sick and it is the Lords will (though we don't know) that this person is coming home to be with Him and he will not be healed, there is nothing any amount of faith can do to change God's will. So, I do not understand how this gift would apply here?

So what is left?

What is the meaning of this verse? to another faith by the same Spirit

 

[Dennis1963]

Seems like no one knows for sure. Thanks.

 

[earl40]

This is an interesting question, and I think you are correct in your assessment. I do not know how many times people have asked me to "pray for healing" for someone I know is going to die. I dare say I am "praying a prayer of faith" that is in accord with God's will if I pray for God to "give us our daily bread" till our loved one passes away.

PS. Fridays and especially Friday evenings the are a slow net day and this may be why no response till now.

 

[toddpedlar]

One thing to keep in mind while discussing this passage is that the gifts mentioned are extraordinary gifts given "for the common good" as Paul writes in verse 7. The "gift of faith" spoken of here cannot simply be saving faith that all believers have been given by the Spirit. Rather, what must be the subject of discussion in this case is a particular gifting of faith, needed for some reason for the benefit of others - an "over the top" ability to trust God in particularly challenging circumstances, perhaps.

On the second concern, there is no "making God do" anything by prayer, of course, as you note - that notion really isn't in view here (or really anywhere in Scripture). The "gift of faith" is a special granting of the ability to trust - it's a change in the individual's ability, and thus any concern about 'changing God's will' should be easily dispensed with.

 

[Dennis1963]

One thing to keep in mind while discussing this passage is that the gifts mentioned are extraordinary gifts given "for the common good" as Paul writes in verse 7. The "gift of faith" spoken of here cannot simply be saving faith that all believers have been given by the Spirit.

Yes, I am aware of that, and I agree.

Rather, what must be the subject of discussion in this case is a particular gifting of faith, needed for some reason for the benefit of others - an "over the top" ability to trust God in particularly challenging circumstances, perhaps.

Hhhmmmm, I think you may be on to something here, not sure what, but it definitely threw some thoughts to my narrow mindedness.

My first thought after reading this was; people receiving this gift of faith to live a pure life by walking in the Spirit, as (for) an example to others. As an example of the obedient Christian life perhaps?

I'll chew on these a while, for sure. But, it don't seem to fit.

On the second concern, there is no "making God do" anything by prayer, of course, as you note - that notion really isn't in view here (or really anywhere in Scripture). The "gift of faith" is a special granting of the ability to trust - it's a change in the individual's ability, and thus any concern about 'changing God's will' should be easily dispensed with.

Yes I agree.


to another faith by the same Spirit
There has to be something in scripture to support this verse, steering it in the right direction, or it can become a confusing verse for some, perhaps many? Also, it could be heavy artillery for the Arminian camp.

 

[toddpedlar]

Rather, what must be the subject of discussion in this case is a particular gifting of faith, needed for some reason for the benefit of others - an "over the top" ability to trust God in particularly challenging circumstances, perhaps.

Hhhmmmm, I think you may be on to something here, not sure what, but it definitely threw some thoughts to my narrow mindedness.

My first thought after reading this was; people receiving this gift of faith to live a pure life by walking in the Spirit, as (for) an example to others. As an example of the obedient Christian life perhaps?

I'll chew on these a while, for sure. But, it don't seem to fit.

It could also be an extraordinary degree of faith required to accept a difficult teaching of Scripture - or to make a difficult decision wherein trusting God for His care and oversight is required - or to obey when it's challenging... all for the common good.

Your example is but one of many possible, but I wouldn't (and I don't think you are.. just be careful) assume it's the only possible application. I don't think the narrow (1 Cor 12) or broader (1 Cor in toto) contexts point us to any particular application point for this gift of faith. The only thing I think we can conclude is that it is a gifting of some extraordinary degree of faith necessary to help the believer gifted with it in some way that in turn benefits his community of believers. We have to be careful not to import into this passage any presupposed applications that might be on the forefront of our minds as THE application.

 

[Dennis1963]

Rather, what must be the subject of discussion in this case is a particular gifting of faith, needed for some reason for the benefit of others - an "over the top" ability to trust God in particularly challenging circumstances, perhaps.

Hhhmmmm, I think you may be on to something here, not sure what, but it definitely threw some thoughts to my narrow mindedness.

My first thought after reading this was; people receiving this gift of faith to live a pure life by walking in the Spirit, as (for) an example to others. As an example of the obedient Christian life perhaps?

I'll chew on these a while, for sure. But, it don't seem to fit.

It could also be an extraordinary degree of faith required to accept a difficult teaching of Scripture - or to make a difficult decision wherein trusting God for His care and oversight is required - or to obey when it's challenging... all for the common good.

Your example is but one of many possible, but I wouldn't (and I don't think you are.. just be careful) assume it's the only possible application. I don't think the narrow (1 Cor 12) or broader (1 Cor in toto) contexts point us to any particular application point for this gift of faith. The only thing I think we can conclude is that it is a gifting of some extraordinary degree of faith necessary to help the believer gifted with it in some way that in turn benefits his community of believers. We have to be careful not to import into this passage any presupposed applications that might be on the forefront of our minds as THE application.

todd, I want to thank you for your time and your reply, it is greatly appreciated. I feel convicted by your explanation.

Many times I get narrow minded, it's like I cannot see outside the box, I do not like when I get this way, and I fear I am this way more then I know.


Thank you and God bless.

 

[Prufrock]

Dennis, as Todd states, faith in this passage is a special form of faith; it is not that faith which receives Christ as a whole (common and necessary to all believers), but a faith whereby something specific and special is believed, allowing the believer to do something miraculous in Christ's service. The Reformed commentators of old on scripture were near unanimous in attributing the use of the term "faith" here to indicate a "faith of miracles" or "faith of signs," following Chrysostom and Jerome. This, they taught, is the type of faith by which Judas Iscariot was even able to perform miracles - though he lacked saving faith, he was gifted with a special faith whereby he believed and accepted the authority given him by Christ do work miracles in his name. A small number of reformed commentators have thought this could refer to a gift of faith strong enough to remain constant and to confess Christ in the face of martyrdom. Of the "big four" early codifiers of Reformed theology, Musculus, Vermigli and Calvin all maintain the first interpretation, and Bullinger notes both, though leans to what seems to be the second.

 

[NB3K]

Calvin writes:

The term faith is employed here to mean a special faith, as we shall afterwards see from the context. A special faith is of such a kind as does not apprehend Christ wholly, for redemption, righteousness, and sanctification, but only in so far as miracles are performed in his name. Judas had a faith of this kind, and he wrought miracles too by means of it. Chrysostom distinguishes it in a somewhat different manner, calling it the faith of miracles, not of doctrines. (739) This, however, does not differ much from the interpretation previously mentioned. By the gift of healings (740) every one knows what is meant.

John Gill writes:

1 Corinthians 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit,.... Not the grace of faith, which is common to all believers, though given by the same Spirit: but rather the doctrine of faith, and ability to preach it, and boldness and intrepidity of spirit to assert and defend it in the face of all opposition; all which are from the Spirit of God, and are more or less given to pastors and teachers, the third office in the church. Though generally this is understood of a faith of working miracles, as in 1Co_13:2 but the working of miracles is mentioned afterwards as distinct, unless it can be thought that this is the general name for miracles, and the rest that follow the particulars of them.

Matthew Henry:

To another faith, by the same Spirit; that is, the faith of miracles, or a faith in the divine power and promise, whereby they were enabled to trust God in any emergency, and go on in the way of their duty, and own and profess the truths of Christ, whatever was the difficulty or danger.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dennis1963]

Dennis, as Todd states, faith in this passage is a special form of faith; it is not that faith which receives Christ as a whole (common and necessary to all believers),

Yes, I agree, I stated that in the op.

but a faith whereby something specific and special is believed, allowing the believer to do something miraculous in Christ's service.

Yes, just what these are and how this (for a lack of another word) works, is what I am considering.

The Reformed commentators of old on scripture were near unanimous in attributing the use of the term "faith" here to indicate a "faith of miracles" or "faith of signs," following Chrysostom and Jerome. This, they taught, is the type of faith by which Judas Iscariot was even able to perform miracles - though he lacked saving faith, he was gifted with a special faith whereby he believed and accepted the authority given him by Christ do work miracles in his name.

I think I follow? Since it was God's will, they had faith in what God willed would come to pass, therefore, they were faithful to their commission? God's will be done, not theirs.

A small number of reformed commentators have thought this could refer to a gift of faith strong enough to remain constant and to confess Christ in the face of martyrdom. Of the "big four" early codifiers of Reformed theology, Musculus, Vermigli and Calvin all maintain the first interpretation, and Bullinger notes both, though leans to what seems to be the second.

Hhmmm, interesting.

However, even though one may loose faith (to any degree possible, besides saving faith) it wouldn't have any effect on their salvation.

 

[Prufrock]

The Reformed commentators of old on scripture were near unanimous in attributing the use of the term "faith" here to indicate a "faith of miracles" or "faith of signs," following Chrysostom and Jerome. This, they taught, is the type of faith by which Judas Iscariot was even able to perform miracles - though he lacked saving faith, he was gifted with a special faith whereby he believed and accepted the authority given him by Christ do work miracles in his name.
I think I follow? Since it was God's will, they had faith in what God willed would come to pass, therefore, they were faithful to their commission? God's will be done, not theirs.

Dennis, I think you may be thinking too hard. In the New Testament church, the apostles and certain other Christians were given the power to perform signs and wonders both as confirmation of their message and as part of God's revelation itself. This was done through a special faith. Not "faith" in the sense that modern charismatics use the term, whereby if you believe something you can make it come about; but "faith" in that they had been charged by Christ to work miracles and trusted him for the power and ability to do so.

However, even though one may loose faith (to any degree possible, besides saving faith) it wouldn't have any effect on their salvation.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here. But yes, having this faith does not mean one has salvation, and having salvation does not mean one has this faith. It is a special gifting for a special purpose.

 

[Dennis1963]

Thanks

 

[jawyman]

This is not much of an addition to the conversation, but I thought this was an interesting article on the Reformation Theology website. I don't know if this is pertinent or not, but here you go:

Reformation Theology: Is Faith the Gift of God? What Does Jesus Say?

 

[lynnie]

I have had some experiences in prayer where it seemed like a faith outside of my own weak and doubting heart enabled me to ask God to do something mighty in a particular situation, and God did work in an amazing way for a person.

And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

I think I often do not really- in the depths of my heart- believe God will reward those who seek Him. I intellectually assent but my prayers can be without real expectation. I ask, but do not believe He will answer.

The fruit of faith has grown over the years, but I am grateful that at times I think I had a true gift of faith in intercession outside myself, that enabled me to "pray in the spirit" with confident expectation, and God answered.