ERK
Puritan Board Freshman
How would you respond to this concept?
I have a friend who is currently a youth pastor at a pentecostal church, but has recently been studying the church fathers. He has been convinced that Baptism and Union with Christ are one and the same in what seems to be a lutheran sense. He doesn't believe that the water nor the minister make the baptism effectual, but that the baptism is always conferring the Uniting Grace by the working of the Spirit (as long as it is a triune baptism). He believes that baptism itself is the fulfillment of Old Testament types (circumcision) as he says it is the very thing that unites us to Christ. When I challenged him on how his view explains the OT saints having the realities of union with Christ (Abraham being counted righteous) he said that they simply had it in part but not in the way that we have it. I pressed a little more into how Abraham could be counted righteous apart from being united to Christ, and my friend kept on sorta dodging the question. He won't allow Abraham or any OT saint to be united to Christ because he equates union with Christ to regeneration and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (which he argues belongs to NT baptism). To make things more difficult to address... he also believes that regeneration follows faith, that baptism is necessary for salvation (because it unites us to Christ), and that "Prevenient Grace" is universally and effectually given throughout all time in order to release the will of every fallen human being to be able to have faith.
Does this resemble any particular sect of Christianity? Eastern Orthodox maybe? It has been difficult to discern what tradition he is aligning himself with.
I have a friend who is currently a youth pastor at a pentecostal church, but has recently been studying the church fathers. He has been convinced that Baptism and Union with Christ are one and the same in what seems to be a lutheran sense. He doesn't believe that the water nor the minister make the baptism effectual, but that the baptism is always conferring the Uniting Grace by the working of the Spirit (as long as it is a triune baptism). He believes that baptism itself is the fulfillment of Old Testament types (circumcision) as he says it is the very thing that unites us to Christ. When I challenged him on how his view explains the OT saints having the realities of union with Christ (Abraham being counted righteous) he said that they simply had it in part but not in the way that we have it. I pressed a little more into how Abraham could be counted righteous apart from being united to Christ, and my friend kept on sorta dodging the question. He won't allow Abraham or any OT saint to be united to Christ because he equates union with Christ to regeneration and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit (which he argues belongs to NT baptism). To make things more difficult to address... he also believes that regeneration follows faith, that baptism is necessary for salvation (because it unites us to Christ), and that "Prevenient Grace" is universally and effectually given throughout all time in order to release the will of every fallen human being to be able to have faith.
Does this resemble any particular sect of Christianity? Eastern Orthodox maybe? It has been difficult to discern what tradition he is aligning himself with.