The Impeccability of Christ Harmonized with the Reality of His Temptations

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Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
My question would be just how was his soul then when released from the physical body? a single soul, with 2 natures or what?
The soul of our Lord was immediately in the presence of God upon His death, just as would any believer's soul.

The divine nature of Our Lord is not confined to His physical body, but is always omnipresent.

Is that what you are actually asking?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
The soul of our Lord was immediately in the presence of God upon His death, just as would any believer's soul.

The divine nature of Our Lord is not confined to His physical body, but is always omnipresent.

Is that what you are actually asking?
Yes, but the divine/human would still be in His soul. correct?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
Yes, but the divine/human would still be in His soul. correct?
God is not composed of parts, as in the essences of body and soul comprising the created moral agent.

God is not composed of parts, possesses no additional substances, essences, and so on. Other than the accommodation of God to our finitude, the most anyone could properly claim is that the “soul” of God, is God himself . When God speaks of Himself in this way it is to affect us with apprehension of His concern about what He is speaking. This means of communication is directing our attention to our very cores, for we are that which our souls, i.e. our minds with all our affections, are engaged in.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
Yes, but the divine/human would still be in His soul. correct?

Jesus has two souls, so when you say the divine/human is *in* his soul, which soul are you talking about? And what does it mean for a divine/human nature to be *in* something?

Analogously, we can think of this in a problem with the two minds of Christ. Christ's divine mind stands in an asymmetrical accessing-relation to his human mind.
 

timfost

Puritan Board Senior
My question would be just how was his soul then when released from the physical body? a single soul, with 2 natures or what?

The human nature has both soul and body. The soul that was separated from the body was a human soul. The divine nature was never separated from His body even in death, though His human soul was separated from the body. In other words, this human soul was part of the human nature and was added to the divine. Hope that helps...
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
"16. Why must He be a true and righteous man?

Because the justice of God requires that the same human nature which has sinned should make satisfaction for sin; but one who is himself a sinner cannot satisfy for others."

This is where I get hung up...

Tim, I see where you're coming from. I think the critical point is to understand that saying that the human nature of Jesus considered abstractly is peccable is not by itself an affirmation of peccability, because the question is not about the peccability of abstract humanity, but the peccability of the concrete person. The assumed human nature was anhypostatic, and enhypostasized by the Logos himself. That's where the impossibility of peccability arises.

It is the same human nature which has sinned; but it is the human nature of the Lord from heaven. That makes the 2nd Adam different from the first, and a strong doctrine of impeccability is dependent on that fact.

(Of course there are other arguments in favor of impeccability, but they refer to the impossibility of the event of sin; the constitution of the theanthropic person is the argument that has to do with an intrinsic impossibility.)
 
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BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
For Jesus to have the same human nature as us it to have all the essential properties of what it means to be a human. Since we aren't Barthians or Gnostics, sin isn't essential to humanity.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
For Jesus to have the same human nature as us it to have all the essential properties of what it means to be a human. Since we aren't Barthians or Gnostics, sin isn't essential to humanity.
Jesus was in the same humanity status as Adam was when he was created.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
The human nature has both soul and body. The soul that was separated from the body was a human soul. The divine nature was never separated from His body even in death, though His human soul was separated from the body. In other words, this human soul was part of the human nature and was added to the divine. Hope that helps...
So His Deity stayed "alive" while His physical body had died, correct?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Jesus has two souls, so when you say the divine/human is *in* his soul, which soul are you talking about? And what does it mean for a divine/human nature to be *in* something?

Analogously, we can think of this in a problem with the two minds of Christ. Christ's divine mind stands in an asymmetrical accessing-relation to his human mind.
God does not even have a soul, so would not Jesus have but one soul, with Both natures residing in it?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Soul and mind are roughly synonymous. God has a mind. Therefore, God has a soul. You came very close just then to a form of Apollinarianism.
God is Being though, and He has a mind, but not a soul in how we see humans having one, correct? The Father and the Holy Spirit have but the mind of God, Jesus had/has both the minds of God and Man, correct?
 

timfost

Puritan Board Senior
David,

You may find this helpful from Belgic 18:

"...conceived in the womb of the blessed virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit without the means of man; and did not only assume human nature as to the body, but also a true human soul, that He might be a real man. For since the soul was lost as well as the body, it was necessary that He should take both upon Him, to save both."
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Sure. But he isn't identical with his physical body.

I see what you are saying now. That's an explosive area in 1 Peter. Great men have disagreed.
I think part of the problem was that some translations state that Jesus went down into Hell, but was actually Hades
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
I'm not a great man, but didn't Jesus say to the thief on the cross that he would be with him today in paradise?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

I believe Christ is Omni-present.
 
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PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
I am having a problem with this Two Souls of Jesus thing. I have a lot to learn. I remember reading old books that even said there were 9 parts to God. Even in the Hypostatic Union. It was really messed up. Yes, I believe Jesus had a soul as a man. He noted God would not leave his soul in Hell through prophecy.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
 
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BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
I'm not a great man, but didn't Jesus say to the thief on the cross that he would be with him today in paradise?

Yeah. There's also the preaching to the souls in prison and the difficulties around that text. And then there is the debate on where exactly "paradise" is, which doesn't necessarily contradict Christ's going to preach to the souls in prison.

In any case, I'm humble about drawing conclusions.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
I'm not a great man, but didn't Jesus say to the thief on the cross that he would be with him today in paradise?
Some hold that Paradise was a part of Hades , where the saved awaited the messiah to come and deliver them out from there.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Some hold that Paradise was a part of Hades , where the saved awaited the messiah to come and deliver them out from there.
That is a debate about when the reuniting of the human Soul and resurrected body will take place.

I am interested in this two souls of Jesus discussion. Do you sense that was answered? It is somewhat involved here.

I am not addressing David. Sorry David.
I am asking Jacob.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
That is a debate about when the reuniting of the human Soul and resurrected body will take place.

I am interested in this two souls of Jesus discussion. Do you sense that was answered? It is somewhat involved here.

I am not addressing David. Sorry David.
I am asking Jacob.

Orthodox Christology demands that Jesus have two minds (human and divine). That is a corollary to his having two natures. So far, so good.

The trick with having two souls is that we don't normally think like that. But in most philosophical discussions, soul is roughly synonymous with the mind. But if we aren't careful, it gets difficulty.

Thomism says the soul is the animating principle/rational form of the body. While I think Thomism is wrong on almost everything, that's not a problem. But how does Jesus' divine soul factor in? Is it, too, an animating principle? It's hard to see how, since God doesn't have a body to animate.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
That doesn't explain enough Jacob. Soul is defined by pneuma in many places. We have seen it more associated with spirit if I am not mistaken. Man is physical and soul. His mind is in there somewhere. I am not a trichotomist. Take your time.
 
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